BTM_Pix

They have a patent for a mount that takes both EF and M mount lenses. Whether this is it remains to be seen as they and others obviously have tons of patents that don't end up in actual products such as Sigma's patent for foveon video and my slightly less far fetched one for an autopilot system for unicorns.

That's next level teasing that.

Yes, I agree, some of those ones are far more interesting than the NYC ones.

Absolutely they're not 100% ideal either and you make a very valid point but at least those images are approaching somewhere where you would be interested enough in them to then look closer for defects. There is a night and day difference between the overall aesthetic of those Sony images and those from the Z7 launch. The vast majority of the output I've seen from the Z7 hasn't been worth the click and the zoom as far as I'm concerned. Does it mean that I think the output from the camera is or will be shit in general terms? After four decades of using Nikon cameras (which is a confession rather than a boast by the way ) I'm inclined to believe it probably won't be shit. If I came to this from never having used their gear or was looking to change though then I'd have looked at the stuff from the launch and had serious doubts about what the fuss was all about. If you take DPReview as a yardstick of this then look at the reaction to the sample gallery of the Z7. Even factoring in the usual hysteria on there, it is overwhelmingly scathing and in this case I have absolutely no issue with that because how else are people supposed to react to such underwhelming output from a £3.5K camera? The blame for that I'm afraid and the potential consequences of it are Nikon's because they controlled the parameters of those launches and are responsible for what has ended up out there. Including the banding by the way that Polin's video exhibits. I'm conscious of the fact that I have not had too much positive to say about these new cameras but I want to stress again that I had/have as much if not more vested interest in Nikon getting things right and establishing themselves in mirrorless as most people, even if I knew ahead of time that these ones would likely not be the most appropriate for me. So I want Nikon to do well with these cameras and any negativity that I have been raising is genuinely coming from a place of concern rather than one of hate. Basically, even from a purely selfish point of view, I want them to do well enough with them that they are still in the game when it comes round to them making versions of it that I would actually want to buy and that means they need to sell these ones to everyone else. I haven't seen much to fill me with the confidence that they have made the best of the platform they had to impress, let alone slay, the wider world outside of a core "You had me at Nikon" audience. Worse than that, there really hasn't been much in the way of an outpouring of love from some of the quarters that I would have expected either. That doesn't mean they are absolutely slating it but I do get the feeling that there is a slight amount of this going on with them I suppose my general point here is that there are undeniably some issues that have irked people about the system as a whole (price, lens lineup, single card slot, ergonomics etc) that are gaining even greater traction because they aren't being mitigated by anyone being able to convincingly say "Yeah but forget all that, just look at the images coming off this thing". I think that Nikon shot themselves in the foot by not offering an environment where that kind of counter point could be generated. None of that means Nikon have created a bad camera system but I do think it amounts to them having created a bad impression. That can change when they start delivering the cameras and people start doing real reviews of course so it will probably be a blessing that there is a short time between the launch event and actual delivery.

You say that but I bet you somewhere out there there is a knitting forum where people are lambasting each other over their choice of needle, getting into seething rages about people not using the same wool as they do and referencing influencer YouTube channels like Mo Knows Mohair.

Amongst all the debate about what Nikon has got right or wrong about this camera, I think one thing that everyone must surely agree on is just how badly wrong they got it with the demo setups at the launch events. It wasn't just that it was bad in its own right - although it was - but it was also how much worse it was comparatively to what Sony gets up to at their versions of these events. In Jared Polin's video above he illustrates this huge gulf and you just have to wonder how anyone from Nikon thought that what they laid on was even adequate let alone comparable. Of course Sony has a much bigger budget for this stuff than Nikon but its not like we are talking about them launching a new speedlite or a consumer compact, this is about a crucial new line for them. I'm not sure how anyone is gleaning anything particularly useful about these cameras based on the output we've seen from these events as everyone who has posted their content is, quite understandably, couching everything they say in relation to how mediocre at best the shooting conditions were. Sony makes it very easy for everyone who attends and reports on those events to get decent images whereas Nikon seemed to have approached it like some sort of challenge to them to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Weird.

Or an indication that the AF is so horribly bad you'll be using MF permanently hence the clutch focus of the Olympus lenses makes them far more appropriate than the Panasonic ones. Where is the emoticon for "Of course I'm kidding about the AF so keep your drawers on but its worth bearing in mind this feature if you are choosing between Olympus and Panasonic lenses at similar focal lengths if you intend to do a lot of manual focus on this camera" ?

Thats a downer isn't it. There was always the nagging suspicion there that they were just re-skinning an existing product, which is perfectly fine by the way if you are enhancing it with your own additional value through the app etc but I don't think they've achieved that here.

More M mount stuff with the rather cosmetically battered but still optically very much not battered Leica 90mm f2 that I picked up recently. Stills again for now but I'll definitely do some grabs of it and the other M mounts I've picked up on a the A6500 and X-T2 in a few days.

There was some speculation about it due to what I believe was a misunderstanding about the Fresnel element in some newer Nikon lenses such as the 300 f4 PF and the 500 f5.6 PF making it into z mount lenses. The Fresnel element enables a lens to be much smaller so the 300 f4 PF has a much smaller footprint than it's predecessor and is more the size you would expect of a 300 f5.6 for example. This was wrongly interpreted in my view as people thinking it made a lens faster (ie an f5.6 is then equivalent to an f4) but it is related to physical size allowing faster lenses to be smaller. I think the reason they all got so excited was that the presumption would be that the 24-70mm f4 Z mount launch lens would act like an f2.8 if it had a Fresnel element in it.

I have done but in this case they were all done in Lightroom for continuity as the DNG from the Sigmas isn't supported in Aperture.

I've not used them but if you look at their list of previously sold items in the Feedback Profile it is almost exclusively printer cartridges. Some of them are Canon ones but thats about as close as you'll get to them having a track record of them selling Canon products.

In the interest of balance, its worth remembering that the people who've bought the Leica Noctilux-M f0.95 will be looking at the price of that Nikon one and thinking "Blimey, thats cheap".

It can be frustrating with Flickr because a lot of it also depends on where in the life cycle of the camera you look. I tend to go back to about a quarter of the way from the start point as people will usually have found their feet with it by then and you start to get the most representative images. Its also quite situational though as well as to how interesting the content is as I was in a far more interesting location last Sunday than I was this Sunday, for example, so the images reflect that. Once you've made your format choice these days, I really do think you can get as near as dammit the same look out of most cameras and its the handling and the lenses that are the difference. If you don't want to pick up the camera and use it then whats the point ? Or if you've spent so much on upgrading to a marginal gain for the sensor that you can only afford to put inferior lenses on it then, again, whats the point? Its actually an interesting exercise taking 4 completely different cameras out in 42 degree temperatures and juggling the around trying to take the same photographs as it really hones the mind about which ones do and don't get in the way and I heartily recommend it. You'll end up being like this fella with them after about 20 minutes !

Same f stop on a smaller sensor than the others though so a slightly more generous DOF.

That was precisely the point I was making though ?

No problem. With regard to jpegs, the situation with the Sigma's is not as bad as people generally say it is but I'd definitely say you have to get it right in the camera as they don't stand for too much additional change. The Fuji's win not only because of the film simulation aspect but also because in my experience using them for work (where it is all jpeg) you can also push them a bit more. The uncropped frame was from the SD Quattro. The LX100 is actually an all round nice photo camera to use because of the aperture dial and the exposure compensation dial. I haven't ever used it with a flash for HSS but I probably should. I mentioned in the other thread about it that the Leica incarnation is actually viewed by a large number of their users as a genuine Leica due to its photo capabilities. The 4th camera is actually the fixed 30mm lens Sigma DP2M which I threw in there as a comparison between the different Foveon cameras but you don't know how close it was to being an FZ2500 that got put in the bag instead ! What you often read people saying about the SD Quattro is that it is a camera that makes you think about your photographs a bit more. Depending on your point of view, those thoughts might well be "Can I be arsed carrying this round" and "Looks overcast I better get the tripod ready". Its not for everyone thats for sure.

To be fair to it, in the shot that its lost most (the left side flower beds of the piazza) its as much a product of some sloppiness on my part matching exposures as it was a bit of a pain in the arse doing an A/B with the Fuji sitting on a throne of lies when it comes to exposure the way it does. If I was just doing an individual shot from the SD Quattro on its own merits then I'd have pushed the shadows harder.

I don't know about dying to but it was nearly a case of dying from so the first image from my limited wandering about yesterday with these cameras was this.... For anyone wondering if the Sigma SD Quattro has an overheating warning icon in the viewfinder then I can confirm it does It didn't stop it from working but it was getting uncomfortably warm to the touch (as was I) so strike one to the Fuji X-T20 there. Anyway, due to not being totally willing to suffer from my Sigma ART, it was a much abridged wandering about a couple of streets so apologies for the less than inspiring content. I was mainly looking for things with strong colour and/or some degree of highlight and shadow content. As discussed, the two cameras were the Fuji X-T20 with the Fuji 35mm f1.4 and the Sigma SD Quattro with the Sigma 30mm f1.4 ART and both shooting RAW. Most shots are in the f2.8 to f5.6 range to compensate for the massive amount of light to the absolutely no ND filters in my pocket ratio. Some post cropping to compensate for the different fields of view as that 5mm makes a big difference on APS-C and also some tweaks in the name of harmonisation in the overall look as the Fuji tells a few fibs regarding exposure and Lightroom tends to be a bit aggressive with the contrast with the Sigma's DNG files. The shots on the left are from the X-T20 and the ones on the right from the SD Quattro As I say, I was going for some harmonisation so they are pretty close but I would say that the SD Quattro just has that little bit more bite but there's not a massive amount in it. One of the benefits of the SD Quattro resolution is being able to play a bit fast and loose with composition as you can take more liberties with cropping. This is particularly useful if you are doing street stuff as you can deliberately shoot wide enough to appear to be taking a shot of something else without alerting your real subject. In this voyeurism by resolution example (which is an intentionally extreme one), the original wide shot is at the top followed by the shot that I was actually going for on first the X-T20 and then the SD Quattro. Again, there is not a lot in it (which surprised me a little I have to say) and if anything the X-T20 edges it, particularly as the unwitting subject has a more interesting pose. At this point, when you factor in the size, weight, cost (especially lenses), battery life and convenience, I can't see the SD Quattro being a better option for you in the context that you wanted it for, particularly if you have any ambitions of using it at above 400 ISO. And of course the X-T20 absolutely smokes it when it comes to video ! Just for a bit more interest though in terms of the general everyday use that you were talking about and to throw a smaller sensor into the mix, I did take along another camera to offer some context. And yet another one which is there for a bit of sport In these comps, in quadrant 1 is the X-T20, quadrant 2 is the SD Quattro, quadrant 3 is the Panasonic LX100 (shooting RAW as well) and quadrant 4 is none of the above. Whilst the LX100 isn't out performing the other cameras, it isn't being disgraced either and when you throw in the convenience factor with its in built zoom lens and a passable 4K video option if you need it and at a much reduced cost to the others, maybe it is the real winner here as the all round camera for the use you were describing as you can certainly get a tune out of it if you shoot RAW. In point of fact, whilst the mark ii has been a let down for most on here because of the video aspect not moving on, the additional photo performance it offers might make it a contender as they will be popping up used around the time you are looking to buy.

There are currently (at least) two theories doing the rounds. The first is the Canon will be launching two differerent models (not simumtaneously) with one being a thinned out one as per what Nikon has done with a non-EF mount and the other being a de-mirrored DSLR style one with an EF mount. The second theory is that their irrespective of build type their FF mirrorless cameras will contain the new hybrid mount that they filed the patent for in Japan which can seemingly accommodate both EF-M and EF mount lenses. Canon have been selling mirrorless cameras (albeit in cinema amera form factor) for years with EF mount and a full frame one at that in the case of the C700 so its not beyond the bounds of possibility a new stills one would feature it, particularly if the two model lines theory is correct. You never know, Nikon might yet still surprise us by doing the same with a D5/D850/D500 styled mirrorless further down the line that features the F mount ?

I read a post on another forum today saying that Jeremy of Atomos sounds like a Game Of Thrones Character and I can't stop sniggering about it

I'm beginning to think it might actually be criminal for them to do it they way they all avoid it. For the more intrepid, here is a picture of what you need to do to add a microphone input to an LX100 Original thread here. I think the guy could make a few quid doing these mods for other people's LX100s !

I suppose the best thing about this is that it will drive the used price of the original one down even further into the territory of it being one of the best value MFT zoom lenses (With free camera) around. From a photo perspective, it's worth bearing in mind that the original version in its Leica overcoat form is decent enough for a lot of Leica users to take it as one of their own, so the improvements on the photo side will only enhance that. If it could be hacked to have Cinelike D on it then it would actually be quite appealing as an all rounder..... If it wasn't for the crop. For years, Fuji have made a very high quality 0.8x WA add on for the X100 (The latest incarnation quite cleverly attaches magnetically so you can pop it on and off) and Panasonic have missed a trick by not offering one for this camera. Having the ability to pop it on to give you 19mm in photo and get back to it being 24mm in 4K would really enhance it as an all rounder. If it wasn't for the lack of a mic input.

Haha...I'm just being an upstanding helpful member of the community. Who thinks everyone should be shooting on a Foveon sensor I use Aperture for sports work (which is primarily jpeg) as it is much faster for an editorial workflow and I've used it for years. This makes me a bit of an outlier as everyone else uses PhotoMechanic but I prefer the self contained aspect of Aperture. I use Aperture (standalone version) for RAWs because it plays better with DNGs off the Leica and Sigma and the inbuilt profiles for lens corrections are very useful and it also keeps up to date with new cameras better than Aperture which of course is a discontinued product. If I'm using the older Sigma cameras DP1-3M then I have to use their own software which is a bit quirky so I generally just use it to do basic stuff and turn them into TIFFs and put them in the other apps.

Whatever became of Atomos urging everyone to lobby their congressman to get manufacturers to output RAW over HDMI? It all seemed to go very quiet after all those videos from NAB of one of their chief's telling everyone to do it. Intrigued me that the video posted in the Nikon frenzy thread saying Atomos helped Nikon develop N-LOG so I would've thought that would have been an opportune moment for them to persuade a manufacturer to do it if it was indeed possible. And it would've given Nikon a bit of a coup as well.