anonim

Which are these "certainly many nice elements to these cameras"? Finally, we are in the topic about Nikon Z6 and it seems to me sensible to hear something about its possible (comparatively?) nice elements, besides defense of Sony from its supposed enemies? (I wrote "supposed", because I still failed to find in this topic main - as you wrote - BS that made you so explosively angry or revolted: "Or how as soon as Nikon (or Canon) take mirrorless 'seriously' they can 'crush' Sony." Who said that here?) Also, if you end up owning one, what then is crucial difference - reason wise - between you and those who end up owning it earlier than you - for example Django, who, with his own arguments, rethinks his instruments maybe in favor to Nikon?

So, may I make simply conclusion that just so-call Nikon enhusiasts and so-call fanboys will buy these cameras - because they are stubbornly unwilling to properly evaluate your arguments and finally admit that, for the same money, Sony A7x is better choice?

No way... if you would be enough long here, you will recognize it mostly as just matter of usual seasonal migration and its normal side effects

Everything seems very well argumented to me - except that, as it seems, you confirm that jonpais is offensively favorable about sony, which he resolutely denied that any time existed in his attitude ... but that, of course, is not important. What now intrigues me is - why Nikon did such bad estimation of its qualities, regards his (as it seems obvious) direct rival and competitor? Especially when Nikon had prepared everything quite a long time for its mirrorless breakthrough? Is it possible that Nikon at the moment actually has a plan (and some secret deal) to help somehow and indirectly Sony A camera sales as untouchable power? I can't find a reason why would Nikon made such serious mistakes and omissions that you point at, missing opportunity to conquer market and to steal heart and pocket of, say for example, jonpais or some other neutral and sparing buyers of new systems of several thousands dollars?

Because someone somewhere wrote that Blackmagic, with new (it will turns out innocent) half-year announcing period, being best and most practically effective/progressive reader of Jean Baudrillard's essays, opened Pandora's camerabox of simulacrums existence - and road maps flutter everywhere for utmost joy of camera (and camera battles) fans

Thank you for mention Z6 Before being faced with monumental authority and innocent look/pretension of Dave Dugdale, I'd dare to say that I like title accent choosen from OP: from my modest experience 10bit via HDMI to Atomos is... well, probably higher and maybe prettier number than 8bit... Simply, my modest experience showed me that, being in hurry, I often make such (especially WB) mistakes, that my wounded proud could survive easier when two ciphers are with me... (I bet my best slang-and-subcultural teacher here, mr webrunner5, would say: two bottles of bear are better than one!)

One of the so many reasons I enjoy so much EOSHD forum is that I learned to wait and guess the moment when topic as "Nikon Z6 features 4K N-LOG, 10bit HDMI output" will provoke new mercer's mention of 5D III and confession about lusting over cameras... made so tenderly and magically sweet, that I feel quite normally that all topics are in fact subtopics of temporarily lusting Canon's cameras...

I'd say, if I think about unannounced cameras in a topic of camera that is just announced, I will loose my mind... and topic will looks like Japanese revenge to Hiroshima (What are your prediction about Nikon Z8 as answer to A7 SIII? I personally think it will be specialized Nikon Z8 1/2 targeting pure filmmakers with connecting with Fellini

Yes, I desperately strive always to be honest (but so often lack)... where is A7S III?

But what's the point - or what urgent need is - about discussing Z7 price at the topic entitled as "Nikon Z6... features 4K N-LOG, 10bit HDMI output and 120fps 1080p"?

https://imgur.com/a/X8Obc3g

Maybe taking a glance to some flickr pool may help? https://www.flickr.com/groups/gh5users/pool/

Jon, are you really serious? Lets say it in different way: please be happy that you may acquire and mastered usage of GH5, than usage of A7 III and made equally nice results with both.. and please be little bit more mild and more mercy with me who see (it might be just temporarily) some marginal topics a tiny little bit differently than your findings! Or, if I stay in impression that you really think about me as fanboy, I don't what to do - maybe to also call BTM_Pix and his experience with a6500 for consolation... I'm kidding little bit, of course... if I'm disturbing you, sorry, it was not my goal... just don't bother with me any more here... finally my impression/opinion really is not at all important about this topic...

Is this subsequent effect of talking shit about poor unprotected Sony camera division and its/their products?

But Jon, different impressions hasn't always origin from "haters". For example, I, personally, think that OOC 4k image of a6500 is better (even very obvious) than comparative of GH5 that I use. But I've also found till now that OOC 4k image of A7 III is not at the level of a6500... Am I wright? I'm not sure, I completely frankly always say - probably not, but that is my impression and I have no other to deal with in my decision. You are very enthusiastic and elaborative with you choices, and I dare to say that maybe I'm here the first always ready to protect and be grateful to your contributions, a priori enjoying all cameras equally. I apologize just for one trait of my character: I don't like to be a member in conversation that anyone is called/entitled by rude characterisation, and not to react at least with one sentence against it...

Oh, but please, how to confront to the content of claim "I see nothing cartoonish at all in the videos or screen grabs I’ve shared shot with the a7 III" - except what I did: with appology that I still see little bit different, but that I'm probably in mistake? Throwing shade at Sony - fan boy I am - talking shit - come on... Your point of you was - I'd say: as always - perfectly clear and legitimate even earlier... but I reacted against characterization of someone's equally legitimate argument as "utmost foolishness", for me mostly similar to that that I'm "talking shit"... but it seems that it is sometimes part of your disputing charm as you evaluate it

Besides of internal camera NR treatment even at NR turned all the way down - I'm obviously referring to my subjective impressions that are very very often full of mistakes... so it probably has to be one of the such (my special) hard-mistake-cases

I'm glad it is not complete nonsense and complete and utter foolishness - which was, I think, presented as argument about an earlier claim Discussion may be endless - for example, what you see as super clear-of-noise image easy may be result of decision to involve too strong NR treatment, and that pretty easy may be the reason why in general and mostly A7 III samples that I saw till now looks to me little bit on the side of "flat" or so-called "cartoonish" in comparison to, say, your own made with GH5 and Oly pro lenses... It seems to me that all of these cameras, being so capable, are also so cleverly based on hiding/diminishing compromises they made at different areas - and it is so good for us users that such compromises seems to be less and less important... (And, out of strict topic, it seems to me that we often forget that all of these companies are of Japanese origin - I'm sure that at the highest instance, they have some sort of deal how to keep Japanese monopol alive... at one accurately thought-out step and during one year/season pushing further Panasonic, at second Sony, than again Panasonic, than again Sony or Nikon etc... At least, it is quite normal, and I'd do the same way if I'm Japanese patriot above and after all :)

Well, for me, it is special when - obviously - doesn't touch everyone's first choices, need, preferences and approaches And quite contrary, other shooters could also say the same - If you're a person who wants to shoot everything at under ISO1600, go buy your Fucking GH5 camera, etc... Yes, it seems that I experienced the same in regards of some concrete film making tasks... but some or many advantages of Sony A7 III (it seems that that one is the foundation for discussion) seems indisputable - just, it seems to me not at every single occasion and task...

I found that @IronFilm here is very patient and civilized in explaining his arguments about an special videomaking case. But I can't say the same when someone start discussion with sentences as "You do know what you have typed here is complete nonsense?!" and "Complete and utter foolishness!!!" (with double and triple exclamation) and than pompously calling logic as exclusive friend in the narrow, totally practical case of usage with many included variables. Actually, from my life experience I found silly to keep up discussing when opponents feel themselves so powerful in logic and knowledge that immediately called my view nonsensical and foolish as first argument - rather, I feel it as some sort of causeless aggression. But, of course that's just me, hypersensitive :)

Well, no... I mean about circumstances that Shirozina mention for absolute necessity for hard ND filtering - that means DoF of, say, T2 in FF terms in bright weather... Veydras can't go there, Oly Pros, although being better suite, neither so ... Again, of course, it is extreme situation, and I restrict my claim about just for very narrow field of usage...

Sorry, but it sounds (at least for my non native English ear, so probably I'm wrong) pretty rude and unpolite, why so at this place? Beside, it seems to me that quotation is not at all nonsense in one narrow field of implementation... Maybe presented with not the utmost precise words.

Obviously true in general. Just, limiting task for narrative sweet spot around T2, there's no need for so hard nd filtering.. Wishing to achieve very shallow DoF in sunny situation, of course... but comparatively, such shallow DoF is more special effect in movie making, or rare accentuated choice as in, say, Anderson's Master... Besides, to get comfort shallow DoF in a value of FF T2, we are exclusively restricted to Voigtlanders...

Yes... Some time ago it was true that m43 sensors, being not enough mature in development, had less photon-sensitivity than their more mature bigger sensor counterparts, but now gathering ability is approximately the same... f2 is f2 in terms of pure usable light efficiency, i. e. with equal noise quantity and level of image purity or no-degradation. From the other side, it is also true that FF cameras can use higher ISO values to compensate light (although in high iso there are always and everywhere degradation and color shifting ) - so, again, I'm talking about narrow field of usage around not above ISO 1600 as limit... But, for this "guerilla-sweet-spot" theory you have to have (or you wish to have) m43 lenses that achieve their best performance at sweet-spot around T2 for nice balance of bokeh-vs-narrative clearness.. and they are much much rare - besides that they no exist in zoom realm - especially in comparison with so many affordable ff lenses. That's the reason why there are several tests that show that, say, Veydras lenses on top m43 cameras achieve even better results than Zeiss Super Primes on bigger sensor cameras, being significantly cheaper. Or Voigtlanders that are so brilliantly constructed (highest hokus-pokus know-how) in balancing flaws/powers - being again better and cheaper than Cosina's Zeiss lenses. So again, strictly for low budget narrative film making, I found from personal practice that combination of these factors (including mature and always more advanced IBIS system) makes m43 (by of course very little margin) best suited for that narrow (without need for really appreciate AF capability) sort of task, i. e. one-man visual story telling. That's also reason, I'd say, why, besides people more technically and novelty-wise interested, creative-job DoP's pay so much attention to little BM cameras, and especially new 4k pocket version or why Oliver Daniel could achieve so nice and quick results in pretty complex and demanding shooting tasks with GH5...

Yes, and it is strange to me that seriously video oriented shooters so rarely consider that fact "from the field". This fact and personal experiences drove me even to conclusion that m43 sensor (with high end rendition capable lens) is actually some sort of sweet spot for shooting guerilla art-movies that very rarely, from narrative reasons, need DoF more shallow than provide by aperture value of 4 (in FF terms)!