anonim

Completely agree. But, please, leave apodictic tone behind - "Internet is a comedy at times!!" - I think it's quite enough to have one uber-patriarch here in EOSHD in the incarnation of Mr webrunner and his majestic knowledge/intonation... I had indoor and outdoor shots needed to be put in sequence... because of hard difference between lights and wb they are too noticable and distractively different... with 10bit HLG footage of GH5 I had more room to get them closer in look... 8bit slow motion futage didn't afford it, colors are quickly destroyed. Yes, we can shot in 8bit whole movie... but have to be extremely accurate... or to relay to argument that people don't notice imperfections. And to add heresy thought - although highly pleasent and brilliantly mesmerizing, Fuji's color science for me looks as hyper realistic approach to pictures: excellent for photos, but calling too much attention to itself for the longer time, as in case of movies. Of course, just mine opinion and taste, which probably differ from the most other...

Nothing wrong with 8 bit image OOC, but I dare to say that 10 bit footage indeed have at least little bit more, or more+, options in post production treatment. I like and am very excited with competition, and I can't understand why it is so hard to include 10 bit option as Panasonic did with GH5. But, being faced with pile of footages in pp that have to be matched, I'm very glad if I have 10 bit profile to work with... It will be so nice if Fuji catch Panasonic from ergonomical and solidity wise side of work.

@seku "Imho, the raised shadows from the GH5s and the GH5 seem similar..." That's exactly the same I'm talking about. @PannySVHS Neumann's robot intro film is made with 30k Zeiss lens and I didn't even see really lowlight shots. From the clips of harbour, the best one is with Voigtlander 10.5 at ISO1000, at iso4000 there's noticable degrading in quality. To sum-up - at the same time I apologize for bothering you - I did noise reduction and slightly color grading with Andrew's clip, and GH5 image is near the same at iso 6400 (!) out of camera. GH5s image has less resolution in all futages that I saw on the internet. Yes, out of camera GH5s looks cleaner than GH5 above iso3200, but it is result primarily of hard software operations inside of camera. I'm not at all technician, but I have to think also about possibility that high processing power for such strong internal manipulation in GH5s is maybe responsible for initial lack of ibis. Saying all of that, I don't thinks GH5s has not some advantages - but price for it is too high, especially considering that shockingly good ibis is one of the breakthrough advantage of GH5... Talks about amateurish side of using of ibis is complete nonsense - GH cameras are production instruments that work marvelously at the place and circumstances where other highend cameras couldn't. Explanation like using in the car-shots are childish caprice. I'm afraid that GH5s will very soon become obsolete. Fuji video oriented camera with ibis is knocking at the door, with lowlight performance probably easy surpasses GH5s offer and quality... As much as GH5 looks as thorougly thought out product, GH5s looks like half baked... IMHO

@PannySVHS Even Panasonic luminaries have to explain what they already explained... and they are everything but independent. I say again - temporarily usage of GH5s sensor is ultimate example of inner software manipulation, even for Panasonic standard. Moreover, in he recent Max Yurev test, at about 2:00 where he compares GH5 and GH5s, you can see serious focusing mistake by which he tries to convince that GH5s is cleaner. Even with that - hardly by chance mistake from such serious blogger - face area out of focus are cleaner and with noticable better resolution in GH5! not to speak about area in focus behind . Keep in mind that it is first time tha Yurev is invited by Panasonic team And all footages of costumed persons in the room for me are totally plasticky - as walking zombies. Every single shot lacks by great margin of "fat" color and subtle color gradation and is out of proper color balance. For me, all current Panasonic campaign it is not just a disaster for a 2500$ price and propagate highend results, but a some sort of shame... maybe firmware update or using extremely highend glasses could help to make image more natural.

Simple Resolve temporal reduction. As I wrote above - and don't get appropriate answer to chalenge - i suspect that Panasonic mostly makes "advanced" and massive software manipulation in GH5s. GH5s's samples that I saw up to iso3200 could be very easy accomplished with elemental grading knowledge in GH5 - and retain better overal resolution. At iso 6400 and above we are in area of completely subjective taste what is too much of smoothnesed tretman/quality. Because operation of Noise reduction in these values are very very severe and visible... And I'm talking as an hardcore Panasonic fan truly interested to upgrade if newer Panny offer is really up to image quality expectation.

I gave a try... and I'm not at all convinced to Panasonic marketing states. Quite contrary, I saw lost of resolution in every comparative case up to iso 3200. What is called cleaner image is result of smoothing image... Out of discussion is that iso6400 really looks laptopic usable - but not at higher professional level or for central shots (simply, skintones are too smooth and unnatural, faces are cartoonish, without 3d natural look). But, to answer to your call: give a try, if you not did it already, to a very simple - and very fast - temporal noise reduction node in Resolve 14... and judge for yourself. My conclusion is that Panasonic's technicians has long way ahead to really mastered new sensor. They hurried - and maybe that is the reason of first delay of GH5s. Next incarnation of new sensor might be very promising - but this one (with nonsense or pretentious explanation for cutting the ibis, with presumptuous price) is simply pilot-one for heavily GAS addicted persons, and as such, potential fiasco.

I'd say it is far away from true. From all samples I saw - including that last one from Max Yurev - for me it seems that at iso3200 video frames from GH5 have obviously more details than GH5s. It looks like GH5s has some enormously agresive noise reduction algorithm deep inside of codec usage. Testing samples, I found that up to iso 3200, GH5 with simple temporal noise reduction values in Resolve 14 keeps more image resolution than GH5s. Yes, GH5 is completely useless at iso6400, but level of plasticity in GH5s image at the same iso 6400 value simple is not at all for professional use as advertised.

Quick noise reduction (Resolve 14) operation with GH5 ISO 6400 400% magnification fragment of Andrew Read's file.

Yes, it somehow help. But problem is that near the whole edges of a frame, curve of sharpness dropped extremely fast and ugly - if it is full frame lens, there is effect as some sort of heat distortion that forced you to cut part of image. It is most pronounced in the region about the corner - so in 2.39 ratio it is less visible. So, I think, don't bet that you can use simple formula that bring you in full frame field of view with BMPCC speedbooster.

Once upon a time I widely used BMPCC speedbooster on G(H) cameras - problem is not so much in crop/vignetting ratio. There's some serious distortion issue at the corners, no matter if it is full frame or crop frame lens being used. Probably thickness of a booster's glass which cause difraction... At any case you have to cutoff corners.

Is it real? GH5s looks so unnatural, plastic and ugly in comparison with c100. It seems as noise reduction totally destroy 3d skin tone. Is there something fake in this test?

Thanks for nice comparison and opportunity to download original futage. I did very quick, and not at all processing power demanded, noise reduction node in Resolve 14 in the last ISO 6400 x400 GH5 example. Result is quite similar to GH5s's out of camera.

I was playing around whole day in a children's world with Voigtlander 17.5mm and get permission to upload this quick result of testing bare GH5. (Put it first at lens topic... too late to erase) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLPms69YH14

How lucky are persons like you! So, you have all chances to be happy user of GH5s - so, don't test voice of lucky destiny, go on, why hesitate and speculate loudly here more

For me it seems that - at least in this test - GH5 still has very slightly better tonal gradation in daylight comparison with GH5s (maybe result of downsampling?)

Just to confirm and recommend also. Temporal noise reduction segment is, in fact, pretty fast and accurate - in many case even totally adequate and sufficiеnt. With newer Resolve incarnation noise reduction is not longer so to say "pain in the ass".

No, and it will not be, but who cares? Suddenly, we all are becoming lemurs (MenS)!

Oh, master, keeping all respects to your experience - sometimes you indeed looks little bit stuborn Besides the fact that half+ of the comparative reviews are fine marketing make-ups (gained toward presenting GH5s in ideal, and its counterpart in not-so-ideal combination of factors), besides the fact that most of us, probably including you, are viewing at the computer or similar 20-ish screen - please respect the fact that Zak Forsman HAS Eva1 and actually works in the field, and that he surely is in the fresher and closer touch with these equipements than rest of us, including you, who judge solely from Panasonic luminaries... I'm user long voted user of Panny cameras, and am trilled buy the GH5s, but let's be more objective... Or it has to be so that you know better what's DR of GH5s even than tatooed Panasonic fan Sean Robinson?

Well, that of course depends of your pocket deepness. If you can afford, get them both... compare and share your impressions with rest of us. GX80 has nice image but very toyish functionality for longer and serious usage (size, screen, buttons, evf etc). What I may add, it is that for me seems that goes on unnoticed fact that Panasonic consumer sector for a long time had no any new sub model... it seems as they silently abandon lower market and are focusing completely on top models (variations of mobile phones have in every circle more and more stronger capability and influence). What does it mean for your dilemma - I think that life and comparative practic usability circle of GH5s easy could not be too long, depending of sale rate and very sharp competition (Sony, Fuji, anounced mirrorless Nikon etc). I have no any suspect that GH6 is already born and greatly at the road of secret maturation with lowlight+ibis integrated combination...

Of course, it is without discussion. As also that in your quoted spontaneous "museum", or some similar situation, you/we have no easy solution with bringing clumsy gimbal or tripod for discreet shots. That's why I simply wrote that we have two choice and decision. I think that with speed lenses we can more easily (and in more situations) so-so compensate great GH5s lowlight performance than, contrary, compensate lack of ibis. Panasonic's fame lays on concept of complete indie solution - so GH5s is, I think, just medium step - and as such too expensive - toward higher level of this strategy. At this moment, in spite of the lowlight achievement, it seems to me that GH5 is still more complete choice - and more faithful to established (and loved) GH fundamental concept.

Uh, well... very deep question, touching whole Existence - so, maybe idea for GH5E!

In theory iti is so But in real life - first of all, I really don't like software corrected native lenses (nor their limited stabilization); and second, to use f2.8 (which, in fact, is more >f3 in the case of these zooms), you have to crank ISO up to 12800 in equivalent situation where your 17.5 use ISO 1600 wide open. As we can see, even GH5 in ISO 12800 inevitably lose color information. Its really great strength is ingeniously clean and fully DR usable ISO 2500-3200 image, because of second native iso value.

I'm often in the same situation. But, what I've found is that, exactly, GH5 with full open Voigtlanders at ISO 1600 gathered more light than exists for the human eye - and, the most important, because of m43 DOF, f1.0 in fact don't result in THAT shallow DOF (it is near f2 at full frame measure). In fact, it seems to me that non m43 users don't realise how good and usefully advanced are pro m43 primes wide open in lowlight situations. To sum up: having fully clean Iso 3200-6400 image from GH5s is dream come true - but not something that in the 95% of real life situation couldn't be achieved by fast primes. But, lacking of Ibis is for me hardly compensable for far more situations. Keep in mind that situations when we need to up ISO level to the 12800, even 6400, are in reality such that their color informations are extremely poor.

Really, sometimes we can find/hear some pearl of Monti Payton's sort of explanations at unexpected places - so, Panasonic guy seriously claims that their technicians profoundly grace those who are shooting from the car in the movement. Suddenly we all have to find out how we, in fact, are finally blessed to not having this cone ibis trol-monster that corrupt our high-end shots. All in all - besides subtle differences in color processing, 2 stops better usable real world lowlight performance from one side vs ibis from the other - that's all that will rest after typical first wave of paid/gifted marketing canon fire. Actually, Panasonic had always such habit - to put the first probes of new technology in some of the in-between models. I'm just afraid that, behind all this New lowlight Boss in the Town mambo-jumbo we have to be prepared for the price of 3000$/euro for GH6.

How about ETC mode? Does it exist in GH5s?