anonim

I thought something similar, but in a meanwhile I learned that them (BM) are arseholes, and those who don't see them exactly as such, must see them (BM) as the messiah.

It looks refreshing language to me, but I don't quite understand - is that a way that you feel BM treat you personally, or just, say, all range of your suggestions for better acquisition?

If it might be word of compassion - I think that buyers of BM cameras (me personally had 8 during time) are much much more aware of all of that than you (judging from lines of worry) assume. Actually, imho that's the main reason of bad selling P6K - not just because of 2800e as initial price, but because it is 2800 for product of BM... that as company is far away of having reputation of highest reliability, regarding many different aspects (but also with great history of update improvements). But, I think that BM will not improve their at all. Simply, somebody without stable income of camera-usage is willing to take even a, say, 70-30% risk for 1200e of marvelous technology, but not at all for 2800e after carefully reading whole experiences at all forums. (Especially in Western countries, where there's easy way for reclamation and where, to be honest, there are also many positive reviews of BM readiness to help.) Or, from another side - it is great to try Z-cam e2, but its not so easy when, for the same money, you can buy P4k with best raw codec plus, say, Olympus 12-100. Why such total newcomer, even without proper established selling network in EU, has to be so much more expensive? Who will not buy instantly Panasonic GHx with same recording capabilities with same sensor and processing power as P4K for 800e more? But such camera doesn't exist, exclusively by the will of Panasonic - choice was to ask 2500e for less capable same cine-type product. Panasonic plays its own market game, as BM his. I'm totally cold to them all. And that's also all about real reason for quasi David vs Goliath argumentation - not as apologize, but as anatomy of one's game - it seems to me that BM, simply, even if actually wishing to be better, has no enough resources for better quality control, while being at the same time devoted with full forces to bring proper biggest-guys technology to a hands of just aspiring mm community... moreover including for free (even bizarre-fast-evolving ) software(s) that already destroys big-players as Flame, Avid, Premiere etc market. BM, even more than similar Fuji, has no luxury to lose market covering flops with other lines of products. BM choose to act fast, with mistakes, being in advantage to the shocking level. Fuji choose to be slower, little bit falling behind, but more credible. Having just one view at Petty's funny proudly-juvenal excitement while announcing his hurry-to-be-first-truly-missionary, or big-shaking-experience cameras - and it will be clear what to expect next. The same story again: two steps ahead with list of advantages, one step or two behind in term of reliability. If you, little Joe, want to shoot raw at the field, you have to keep praying that BM camera will not break down at crucial moment (also you always have to have one BM in reserve). That's BM psychology, its market and dignity gambling. Before we make our breakthrough to Oscar, every of us simply has to choose his/her own poison.

@Andrew Reid Truly and sadly for not just one similar experience about scratches... But we already read about that failure here, and that everything started even earlier with stupid decision of BM not to call you to be part of their testing campaign. As also that - why anybody need unreliable P4k when exists solid GH5s, or who needs RAW when S1H has V-log, who needs DLSR body when it could be box etc. As fond, mostly-fan of Eoshd, it started to me to look as some sort of unnecessary continuing private war, with expecting next step/episode of something/anything vs BM. I just think simply as so: as much as you have all rights to feel firstly neglected, than in other case insulted by some BM personal, it's under level of dignity, achievements and significance of this very your forum to suggest that all buyers of BM cameras are blind about their comparative faults and comparative values. And btw - to the management and marketing at any company I know that I don't mean anything, that I'm literally just a potential sale or a non-sale. edit, because of question mark in last sentences - Did you really use that camera as BM reply claims (it seems obviously following posts and discussions on eoshd?)... "as an amount of time had passed between receiving the product and reporting the condition to them, and because the product had been in use as detailed on your website"?

@Andrew Reid Actually, I suspect that for the second circle of deliverance BM even repacked issued-returned/refurbished cameras from the first and sold them as new; also, there are many complains that point at clearly visible scratches on bodies. Such attitude is sign that BM/G.Petty is constantly in the stage of struggling to stay competitive with philosophy, prices and still small crews against conservative, restrictive and easier-to-be-solid Japanese giants . If it helps, it seems that BM truly afterwards strive to be as reliable as possible with further contingents, at least of P4K's. Unfortunately, maybe that must be our accept-or-refuse risk and price for sort-off indeed uncompromising cutting-edge technology-vs-price solutions BM offers to community of indie film makers. (Regarding their British head of PR vs CEO of Eoshd and all of previous similar matters - I think that's obvious that BM Head of PR is mere transitional dealer and our CEO is one of the few top creators that passionately organize, lead and honestly convey voices of community. Let Heads/PRs be arrogant, ignorant: if to him, or anyone BMinvolved, fact of 1.2 millions of views at top-pinned topic doesn't mean enough to be especially polite, there will be of no help in trying to diminish importance of BM as unique phenomenon as whole. Actually, it seems to me that inward moving spirit of BM and Eoshd is very close to each other. So, there's not need for carrier of noble spirit to communicate with mere operative screw-everything-PRHead

Between lesser (probably for at least some of the users) known authors, I'd highly recommend works of Ye Lou. Encouraging indie-sort of thinking and movie making, there's so much to learn about superior freedom of camera movements and, in general, cinematography out of cliche, as also about cleverly purposed montage, interesting angle of view and way of story telling, building of emotional atmosphere and suspense, rich and subtle usage of serious music add. So, Ye Lou: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0521601/?ref_=tt_ov_dr

It seems that at least in 2.3x or so ratio Voigtlanders might also work completely without vignetting

Some more opinions from the same address (about BM employment) that don't look at all like "horror stories"... please check for more by yourself "An amazing experience" 6 October 2019 I had a chance to work with some of the most amazing people and on one of the most widely used software in the entertainment industry-davinci resolve. Was quite well received by everyone in the team, and my manager was a highly qualified professional and an expert in the field. The company’s culture was a bit conservative i would say, but that’s ok. Would definitely recommend this company to someone who wants to have a stable job with a good work-life balance. "Great place to be" 10 February 2016 Fantastic working environment! Nice and highly professional people. Great opportunity to stay up to date with the latest and upcoming broadcast and audivisual technologies.

Out of curiosity, I ask myself why, if Blackmagic is here at the first place with exclusively exhaustive elaboration from psychological portrait of CEO down to the ground, title is not more in a line with content.

IMO GH5s unfortunately had many strategic mistakes - I wrote it already at the time, and sorry for repeating it, just regarding prospect of GH6. First, it was too highly priced camera regarding (most of) targeted users market. If you dropped the most usable and comparatively advanced (for most of the users of that base) quality - IBIS - you can't simply charge 500-1000e more than similar camera that already had it. Dubious Idea of two complementary cameras has it final judge in the pocket of buyers. Second, Panasonic didn't correct GH5s price during long announcing period of Pocket 4k. So they've lost great amount of aspiring indie movie making creators as potential buyers. Because whatever we speculate looking at HD monitors, appeal of 12 bit raw (intensified with Resolve's native capability of manipulating it) isn't founded on gimmick. Third, GH5s was, of course, part of whole division strategy - it was developed simultaneously and priced inside of bigger calculation together with expectation of coming Panasonic FF cameras as also regarding EVA and upper line of products. It seems to me that all that strategy has to be reconsidered - because of BM and Chinese newcomers. With better sensors and cleaner image at ISO3200, m43 format seems to strongly approved its vitality and comparative advantages in comparison and in spite of aggressive campaign for the sake of FF dlsr-form like cameras - touching 3-4000 or more euros price, they are not at all too or primarily appealing for anybody. Fourth, GH5s, stepping more seriously in field of movie making, IMO missed opportunity to finished with concept of baked noise reduction and sharpening algorithm. Also, some sort of raw recording (and forgiving manipulation) it seems today a must condition for staying competitive in targeted field. As probably all of admirers of m43 values and Panasonic particularly (as far the best reliable camera manufacturer) I hope that everything - including market reevaluation and experience - is at dispose that GH6 becomes really best value and for a long time only camera that most of several user base groups really need.

For video keep in mind way or capability for accurate focusing of moving objects or keeping focus through camera movements. Also, maybe you may consider SLR Magic 10mm T2.

Yes, you're probably right - I've misread source as lenstip.com - so I refered to that, they have extensive set of tested lenses and accurate comparison between them, also for all Voigtlander Noktons

Lensrentals always note what camera is used for test - and all of them include internal processing. Further more, what lensrentals testes lack is including of video or movie side perspective of usage (dealing with between frames rendition is science for itself). But even so, at least two Voigts reach top level of "sharpness" at f2.8 without being corrected. Misleading and sort of sterile approach is most noticeable in case of 10.5mm lens - actually probably the most unbelievable thought off of all Voigts. This is lens analog to Cosina's own Zeiss Distagon 21mm, for which they never even tried to make anything but f2.8 version. Actually yes - manufacturers indeed put some sort of up-res/sharpening inside software gimmicky even at before-raw level processing... Take a look to, say, Panny 20mm f1.7, stunning "sharpness" with feather like lens... but its "sterility" as trading mark of all more or less (in "Leica" models) Panasonic lenses is, actually, pure result of artificial sharpening/contrasting which reduce natural color distribution. To put it simply, almost 10 years after first introduction, Voigtlander Noktons stay unique, untouchable by any Chinese manufacturer of nice ambition. Their production is too precious and expensive and include too much experience and will to play and support (than) new market. Veydras are straightforward and sort of safely one dimensional highest quality lenses... but more than two stops (out of any constructional risk) behind Voigts.

Moreover, all Panasonic/Olympus lenses are internally software-corrected, including so-called sharpness at charting lines, and are exclusively tested in Pana/Oly cameras. At 0.95 Voigts have enough center sharpness, cleverly diminishing compromises by keeping softness and distortion closer to the edges to get some 3d portraiture effect. To make them really usable at true T1/1.1, constructors even relied on two different color renditions - mostly by putting less contrast at wide open level appropriate to dark scenes and blooming portraiture/hero effect - that are even not so hard to harmonize in post. Taking a chance to play on the additional field of m43 advantages, I think that Voigts are mechanical lenses that have incomparable know-how Cosina/Zeiss history and new touches (possible just inside m43 spectre) involved in their construction.

Wonderful movie shot on BMPCC and Voigtlander Noktons, presented in Cannes 2019. https://variety.com/2019/film/reviews/lillian-review-1203227609/ https://www.screendaily.com/reviews/lillian-cannes-review/5139633.article

About bi-nature... Voigtlanders bellow f1.2 are not at all meant to be sharp across frame, nor it is possible without software intervention...At f0.95 they are way more usable in comparison with 10k Leica Noctilux... At f1.4 they are equally or 'sharper' than any of Zeiss Distagons 1.4... Under f1.4 Voigts (i.e. long experienced Cosina's engineers) are using magic of field curvature for stylistic usability, they offer playing with accentuated bluring-background and, proportionally, more pronounced foreground. It is also sort of great know-how which is, say, trait that Mercer mentioned about Zeiss Hollywood. Also, at 0.95 inevitable exists sacrificing of some quality - to achieve totally usable (especially for movie making) center sharpness (which is btw miracle - compare them again with completely bloomed Noctilux or with, say, Meike 25mm 0.95 ), Voigts have strong color shifting that can be corrected in post. Furthermore, Voigts are losing quality of bokeh circle, but keep effect of blooming under wonderful control and highly balanced and original degree at realistic-impressionistic continuum (at least for me). All of that precise calculations involve much higher, more subtle knowledge and years of experience than just to construct properly sharp lens at T2.2 Veydras are very polished, extremely 'honest', but more one-dimensional task accomplished lenses. Remembering, say, El Greco - all of us know that, actually, art and life in all are always matter of aberrations. So, if aberrations are fruit of clever deliberate decisions toward predictable control over achievement, they are closer to art. Voigts are lenses from the ground thought out as one with m43's comparative pluses (mostly for movie making) and minuses (mostly for photography). Also, for Voigts I know for sure, for Veydras it seems as well, that mechanic, used material, quality of glass and their durability are top notch.

Or set of Voigtlanders, which was my choice although I already had Veydras - two stops more of usability and some bi-nature rendering characteristics was crucial for decision. Being aware of high accuracy and deep rethinking of Kye, I mentioned it just for the sake of adding note about follow focus usage with excellent manufacturers of gear rings https://followfocusgears.com/collections/voigtlandera

To be more precise - look at "Lens Correction" tab at the bottom of Inspector panel in Edit page of Resolve. And to be even more precise - and I apologize if you already did it - take a look just at most cinematography-wise acclaimed movie from last year production, The Favorite by Yorgos Lanthimos

IDK... To me the most or even only important is precise/smooth manual handling and focusing, and I'm expecting that aberrations will be enough well controlled. But, to be honest, although I understand problem of, say, distorted image at wide focal length, I didn't find that it is so important or distractedly noticeable in moving pictures and movie making for average spectators. What extremely bother me with Panasonic zooms is totally unusable (even for my pretty tolerable criteria) manual focusing. (Granted, I found that 12-35 II has pretty impressive stabilization.) Is it something improved with 10-25 and clutch mechanism, I don't know. Dzofilm's constructors are promising true parfocal design, and, all in all, true cine lens experience for relatively modest price. I guess that even for such newcomers price for FF or APSC counterpart lens will be more similar to Fujinon MK zoom 18-55 (which, of course, doesn't have such UW range). That's why I think that, contrary to death-prediction or afraid by many, it is gold time for m43 movie make aspiring shooters. Simply because of the most important thing - lenses. As much as I've found that Voigts 0.95 lenses are unique regarding value/specs/usability/affordability between all lenses on Earth, it might be that these Dzofilm zooms will match that mark. And as Anaconda already mentioned, they are actually pretty small, about 15cm and 1kg what is ideal for run/gun, considering way that I'm using it - combining handheld and quickly shoulder mounting rig. (I simply couldn't stand gimbals, although I tried them, bought and sold several times.)

For the case you maybe missed it (I sold 12-35 and 35-100 and preorder 10-24)... Actually, IMO it seems that with such newcomers m43 cine-usage case becomes even more attractive http://en.dzofilm.com/index.html

There's nice review from Florense Piovesan, using P4K almost exclusively with 12-35... Several pages up I posted my own test-clip-story with same combination.

Thanks, and no need for excuse, opinions are always welcome, at least they are now divided But, apart of usual youtube execution (especially at iso4-5000), it is brief attempt of two-part quasi artistic story (not camera-accurateness-intended-showcase) with weird at first and everyday at second part atmosphere and similar grading goals - and to catch it, it has to be seen all... which might be, I suppose, pretty boring experience.

In the middle of an more serious and exhausted job, I've found two days and appropriate hero to test Pocket 4k and Panasonic 12-35, all I had with me at the moment... So, to add contribution to the topic of this so lovely camera... Maybe someone find some usable conclusion about its possibility in extremely unprepared, worse than run/gun conditions - except for plenty of will and little bit of ideas.

I understand. But, from the other side, chasing and waiting for more and more just incrementally-important better specs, we often make the worst of bad compromises (apart of falling to addictiveness of network knitted by logical task of market-industry to burn aquisition-lust in us) - that one with ourselves, with our laziness and conformism versus ability and self-sharpening in finding solution. Which are, as you know I'm sure better than me, the most important parts of creative process and indeed outstanding achievement.