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Well, if it's similar what I came across, I'm sure the manual lenses did 😅

If I should just start a whole thread just for the IBIS saga(s), let me know: I discovered today that even at identical focal lengths, the IBIS seems handle totally differently in shoot without lens mode now (I think on the old firmware it was the same in both modes) i.e. when you have a manual dumb adapter lens on the camera versus ANY native lens (not stabilised lens, I don't own any OIS lenses) When you have a dumb/not-electronic lens on the camera the IBIS is still a bit floatier (I maybe dare even say 'smoother'), when you let your movement cease, the sensor can be seen slowly coming to a stop afterward, a bit of extra movement trails on. Looks fine, at least for me, maybe just more used to this. BUT when you have a Fuji lens of the EXACT same focal length on, the IBIS is much tighter and doesn't continue floating in the same direction for that brief moment when you stop movement. It stops dead a bit quicker and, in my opinion, more robotically. This was the main change I thought I noticed with the newer firmware, I should note. But they never said anything like "we changed the IBIS performance but only for native lenses", did they? ((regardless of lens OIS)) This is both with or without IS Boost on, I'm starting to lose any/all sense of what difference IS Boost even makes any more tbh. And I'm not using DIS at any point. Again, NOT using any stabilised lenses either. Has anyone else noticed quirks with IBIS having a REALLY different feel to it across native vs manual lenses even at identical focal lengths? I did check the true FOV matched and all. I was testing with Fuji 18mm and the Pentax P110 little 18mm f2.8 I have videos but it'll take me a day or two to get those.

I think (on the R6 for sure anyway, which is the only realistic price tag to even talk about vs these other cameras) the video codecs are overall kind of only par with current gen Pana/Fuji cameras in this range, but it would be the first time it's being pulled off with both proper AF (Pana fails here) and proper IBIS (Fuji fails here) together. Sounds like a big question mark over whether the dynamic range will measure up to either of those brands' flagships though. Some other little gotchas such as inflexible fps options (you basically just get one single high framerate mode 120p and that's it?), All-i vs IPB forced on you in some modes, and the thing where you can't capture on SD in some modes. Not drooling over it so far, for some reason. I got into cameras only around 2017 and I think my brain has a hard time even getting used to the idea of a Canon mirrorless (or DSLR) leading the way for video. When a ~€2k (or less!) mirrorless finally does 4k above 60p, even with a little extra crop, say 90fps or something, I'll feel like that's something next level. Would be really awesome if the R6 4k didn't max out at 60p.

Hmm. Similar again, I guess the IBIS-only one did look a tiny bit worse - definitely could see those micro quantum leaps this time! Everything from IBIS+Boost onward seemed a little better, yep. Still something a tiny bit nervous about the movement in the +IS Boost one, it's almost like you can see it just about restraining the micro stepping as it happens, haha. Good to know, thanks for this. I'll continue to give IS Boost another fair shot. Especially since it's not adding crop and it doesn't (I think?) introduce any warpy jelly biz. I think an IS anti-boost toggle option might what I'd kill for (at least on the initial firmware). I see Olympus, Kings of IBIS, even have a whole sliding scale parameter you can set ❤️

In this video, I maybe noticed the IBIS-only shot having a sliiightly shakier quality. To be honest none of these clips seemed to suffer much from the micro stepping stabilisation anyway. It's just such a tight, brief shot and yeah, maybe not even the exact sort of panning that causes it either. 'orbiting' around a central point and panning as you move position (in order to maintain framing on the centre point) seems to be what the IBIS makes the biggest shitshow of. Likewise raising the camera's altitude while tilting up or down slowly simultaneous. DIS looked okay here and it reduces shakiness normally but it clearly causes disgusting warping/jelly in my clips so far, I can't go near it. Maybe on longer lenses it's more usable due to the quirks of the optics compression on longer focal lengths, i.e. if it's at its worst on a very wide lens (especially anything less than perfectly rectilinear), maybe it's by the same token conversely way less terrible on an opposite sort of lens (long).

I know that I hate the DIS, but, IS Boost I'm not even sure what to make of yet (other than obviously being good for totally locked-off look. Have you found you preferred it on both firmware versions? With what kind of lenses? Any good videos showing it's the lesser evil? Everything I saw so far made me not so confident about it. I'm still doing my manual dumb adaptor lens with fake shorter focal length setting workaround for the moment for crucial video shots I guess.

Haven't even watched the video yet and I know all too much about it. It's a bummer because I guess this means if I want OTHER improvements that come with future firmwares, I have to accept this generally-a-bit-uglier-but-"reliably ugly" IBIS along with it... I wasn't quite ready to come out and say the v1.00 IBIS actually worked better for me (just had to be careful with those slow pans and changes of directions, construct my shots' movement a bit more thoughtfully, not a bad thing at all for someone just learning to really USE a video camera as a creative tool), but, well. I'm kind of saying it, or at least that I now don't know what's worse. I feel like the Fuji Autofocus (not a big hangup for me as I focus manual so much) is a bit of a similar letdown in real world practice for people compared to the specs/on paper etc. Also focus breathing... I never even saw the big deal people made about that phenomenon until I looked at how some of these Fuji lens focus pulls look. It's pretty offputting. There's nearly no Fuji lenses I seem to desire for video... I will only be bothering with their pancakey primes, and only as a tool for easy every-day-carry point and shoot stills convenience, I think. I don't think they're gonna get there with Firmware updates on this camera, unless maybe their next hybrid video/stills unit really is a huge long way off due to Covid stuff and they kind of change tack to milking this model for better and better sales or something. Hope so, but... doubt it. I'll stick with the system for the life of the XT4 at the least though I think, and see what comes next.

Just chiming in for: I kind of despise Kai. Much as he may know his stuff I think he's a classic 'trapped in branding' / 'designer label' / 'I only like the "best" brands' mindset and it shows at least a little, maybe more, in the videos I could be arsed watching from him. Just an annoying attitude and not all that funny. I'm not watching 55 minutes of Gerald Undone metananalysing his own review and the reaction (I managed maybe 15 mins of it) but I would be inclined to say fuck off to any Zcam zealots who care so much about this that they moaned a lot about it, but also by a similar token it's stupid and weird of Gerald to care so much what they think. The more you say "okay wait, let me explain / pls forgive me" to entitled nobodies on the internet, the more they will try to come for you. Now my real reason for posting: I grew to LOVE camera conspiracies guy. Seems a really genuine and genuinely funny guy, self-aware and self-deprecating (and bonus points for getting into youtube vlogging for something actually real compared to other youtubers and audio/visual tech reviewers - his health problems and diets to fix them. Not some "how quick can I monetise and get sent free things" intention). Love his Vegetable conspiracies channel too, he's a weirdo. Example, Kasey from Cam Conspiracies can be seen interacting and being legit nice and friendly in an off the cuff, unscripted way to like homeless dudes who come up on him while filming, I can't imagine it with someone like Kai, he'd probably try to call the cops or something. Kasey's just likeable. More of a true outsider, gives zero weight to all the "I'm a ~filmmaker~ and ~visual storyteller~" pomp and "professional" pretentions out there, takes the hot air out of all that and instead gets into the use-in-anger grittys and gotchas of cameras that many more polished reviewers just don't, no matter how many "I was not paid to give a positive review" statements they throw in.

Honestly after a couple of years of toying with Resolve I'm still a bit unsure what settings are gonna get me smooth playback without just explicity pre-rendering uncompressed proxies (not just the optimised media setting in Resolve), it's all still slightly voodoo it seems to me anyway. And no I didn't read the 900 page manual. I've a Ryzen 7 2700 and Vega 56 amd and would get tolerable playback when just cutting (i.e. no grading/fx yet) 10-bit GH5 clips and likewise 200mpbs h.265 Fuji clips. It's often not quite hitting reliable 25fps playback or if it does, it starts skipping after a short buffer of a couple seconds. For some reason the Colorist tab of the NLE would somehow seem to perform better (all else being equal i.e. same amount of nodes active/inactive as when in the Cutting tab) for no apparent reason. Maybe the 'optimised media' (background rendered lighter proxies, I understand) only begins to be leveraged there. I forget where the 'smart'/'user' render cache setting starts to factor in. Since I have an AMD system I sure wish Fuji DID offer the 4:2:2 in my XT4.

Likewise stepping ISO has been a pain for transitions. and I would have loved to be able to apply a maximum upper auto-ISO value limit in video (which in itself would mitigate visible stepping too), I find the auto ISO to be really useful for run & gun stuff but it's just pushing it allowing all the way to 12800. You're talking about ending up with clips in the mix that needs completely different drastic levels of NR or maybe even just not usable. Something 6400-8000 would be perfect as an upper limit we could apply. I know you aren't getting to go and just throw a feature wishlist at them instead of an interview of course 😅

Maybe keep it in there if you can 😅 I believe there's still a bit of a question mark there, I haven't found it as much of an improvement as those other users. I'd be interested to maybe even find out about the nature of what they claim exactly was improved by v1.02. Did they simply scale IBIS strength down overall (honestly it could be that), did they just pinpoint and targeted fix that one exact 'catch-up' step it does, etc. There's still stepping but it just doesn't jump off entire cliffs now. And I even found my description of how it works now almost contrary to theirs (what they said about delay initiating panning... there's *less* delay now imo. Feels like there's tighter reponse in the frame movements and I can see how that would prevent the big catch-up stepping it was doing. But for general purpose stabilisation that may have put us further still from floaty-smooth Olympus IBIS)

Somewhat related, here's some of what I have been able to do so far with my XT4. Made this video for my ex who adopted our dog together with me and hasn't seen him in months. Just run & gun while out on a literal run with my dog in the morning. Excuse the overuse of VFR slowmo, I just haven't been able to bring myself to endure the lack of stabilisation in regular FPS with this camera yet and I chose this day as my shoot to just stick to that one setting. It's all 1080 10-bit h.265 200mbps upscaled to 4k just so youtube wouldn't shit on my mp4 file (too much more). All of these clips were with a dumb EF adaptor and a Tamron 28-75 wide open using vari ND. I haven't been able to decide on what electronic comm EF adaptor to get yet to have no iris control for now. Nearly all the clips were just IBIS only and whatever focal length I had zoomed to, I was quickly going into the setting of mount adaptor and setting a fake focal length of about x0.7 to mitigate IBIS jumps on the old firmware. F-log, just freestyled the grading (No LUT) to something I thought was kinda nice. LOTS of clips were stabilised to a small degree in Resolve (translation mode).

I've been obsessed with the IBIS problems since it came out. I did a quick test today on the new firmware. The long and short of it: - It no longer does that "One Giant Leap" thing when slowly panning/tilting etc Which seemed like it was caused by the sensor movement sort of being stabilised/smooth at the beginning of your movement but then hitting a wall and having to 'catch up' position to your panning. Now, the beginning of each pan or tilt almost immediately = quick responsive movement in the frame. I even found this a little jarring at first as if it had got more robotic, but I think I can just get used to it and initiate my movements gently. I was probably already conditioned to do my movements tailored to the old firmware IBIS or something. There's way less loose floaty feeling to the movement now, they just made it all feel ever so slightly tighter. - There's still a bunch of very Small Steps For Man. I think. Or, just still something I don't quite like about it. I think they've sort of broken down the stabilisation efforts into smaller chunks - there's STILL a small quantized, 'stepping' appearance when you look closely - it can be more obvious than normal in Slow-motion modes which almost (partially) defeats my purposes for slowmo, and I think it's there MORE of the time now, but to a less severe degree if you get my meaning, i.e. it never does the one Giant step in IBIS catch-up. But, man, it's still a bunch of v small steps. (maybe if you kneel and keep your arm strong you can mitigate the appearance in the result ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) I just feel like Fuji's whole approach to IBIS seems to have some fundamentally, inherently 'quantizey' stepping nature to it at the smallest level, compared to like Pana or Olympus. For anyone who hasn't got a sense of it yet, the really poor performance happens was happening when: A. tilting slowly while also moving on the up/down vertical (Z?) axis~ B. panning slowly while also strafing side to side on the horizontal (X?) axis C. probably other combinations of 2 types of movement I do feel like the update finally makes it possible for me to try to use, for video, an actual medium length Fuji lens that electronically communicates the focal length. Up to now to get smooth video I was always throwing a manual dumb adapted EF lens (wider the better) and setting a smaller 'fake' focal length on the mount adaptor setting, and this toned down the IBIS jumps. In 4k regular FPS modes I think it seems like I might even be able to give x1.1 DIS another shot now and see if it's usable. I was shunning the DIS completely til now. 4k60p with nice OIS+DIS would be great. My tests so far haven't been at all rigourous or scientific, I was too eager to bother setting up any direct A/B comparison shoot before throwing on the new firmware, so, y'know. I really hope in real world practice I start to feel like the IBIS is cool now and then this really will be my perfect camera. Other good news is I've had really good results anyway stabilising the XT4 footage in Resolve, needing really minimal extra crop factor and almost no artefacts when doing so. I think the strong rolling shutter performance of the camera might help avoid the warpy jelly shit when you have to stabilise. Compared to what I remember with my GH5 anyway. Or maybe my newer version of Resolve these days just does it better. Either way I feel okay about a little stabilising in Post with the XT4. If anyone comes across any compelling footage of testing out the new firmware, comparisons etc, let me know!

Excited to hear about the promising EF-FX adaptors for Fuji. Recently got my XT-4 and have been sitting on a big fence about what route to go in terms of adaptor for my EF glass. So far I'm just throwing a €20 dumb adaptor on and only using ND filters to stop down. The 'dumbness' of the adapter is also an advantage in letting me input the focal length for IBIS myself on the XT4. I set it to a shorter focal length than the real one and that seems to tame the overzealous, grabby IBIS stepping a lot. (and I avoid EIS and IS Boost too. Just use regular IBIS) I wasn't sure whether to get the Fringer II (not a focal reducer but great autofocus and fewer compatibility bugs, IBIS still works) or the Viltrox (x0.71 would be cool for my fixed aperture EF zoom lenses, but AF-C isn't reported to be so usable as the Fringer, and I had terrible problems getting IBIS to function previously when using this adapter on an XH1...) Metabones x0.71 ef-fx could be best of both worlds. But at twice the price 😢 Anyone here bought in on an existing Ef adapter (speedbooster or otherwise) for Fuji and have thoughts? I know the specs, just don't know real world performance and all... Youtube videos didn't answer all my questions, especially still lack of testing with XT4 out there vs other FX models edit: The only EF lenses I really plan on using are my Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 AF (APS-C lens but I use the Fuji 1.29 crop modes so often that I could still focal reduce this and use the full range, anyway just zooming up to 13mm or so is no problem when there's vignette) Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 AF (full frame lens so I can speedboost away and never an issue) Meike 85mm f/1.8 AF (full frame, barely used this yet and tbh it's a nightmare for the XT4 IBIS to handle in video anyway) I dislike lens OIS' look as a video shooter so really don't need EF glass nor an EF adapter that allows lens OIS

Yeah, I could tell pretty quickly this camera's IBIS wasn't performing as good as my GH5, which again probably gets outperformed slightly by the Olympus. It's a shame, really had me considering returning my XT4 but compared to the GH5, the slightly neater form factor and usable autofocus is just something game-changing for me in terms of casually bringing the camera with me way more places. I used to NEVER want to bring my GH5 anywhere for some reason. I've since come to realise how great the image quality is too, beating my old GH5 easily at anything higher than 1600 ISO and seeming to have (in part due to ISO performance I guess) cleaner slowmotion 1080 etc all the way up to 200fps (240fps just pushes it a bit too far and most clips don't look good enough, but this is how it goes with cameras' absolute max VFR FPS, I know). I appreciate other little XT4 victories that were limitations on GH5, such as way beefier codecs when you consider you get HEVC h.265 10-bit even in the high frame rate 1080 modes. I used to hate knowing that mixing the 10bit with 8bit(VFR) on my GH5 maybe meant not being able to grade them quite as hard with the 8-bit mixed in. In 4K (up to 30p) the HEVC 400MBPS codec is fantastic to have, and 200MBPS h265 up to 60p is always gonna be enough for me too, given the extra % visible image info saved in h.265 for a given bitrate vs h.264 (40% or something apparently?) Oh, and HLG availabe in all the recording modes. I never got my hands on v-Log with the GH5 and was always bummed I suddenly couldn't use HLG in the high framerate slow mo modes. I was really, really thinking of downgrading to an XH1 or XT3 but I'm pretty hsppy and trying to just let it go, hope for a firmware improvement. If an XH2 comes along with something like 4K in higher framerate and better IBIS, I just might be trying to jump ship then. Again I've found that the XT4 IBIS actually plays a bit nicer - when using a manual lens setup that lets you enter the focal length setting yourself - if you enter a shorter focal length than the real one. There's still plenty of stabilisation on offer to filter out real hand shakiness, but the camera thinking it's at a shorter focal length (say x0.7) seems to mean the grabby 'catch-up' jitters of the sensor are mitigated a lot. It just works better for me. I'm still afraid to try anything longer than about 35mm on this camera handheld for video though. The IBIS just gets defeated and exasperated by anything Tele. With the Fuji electronic lens protocol being opened up to third parties more lately I'm hopeful about the future in terms of competitive lenses and adaptors too (definitely going to get the Viltrox speedbooster at some point, it was a godsend on my GH5. Fringer sounds great too, I'm torn, I'm not fully all-in on needing usable AF or anything so may go Viltrrox 'booster route) Another cool thing I noticed: with the XT4 I seemed to able to record 400mpbs clips for several minutes at a time to a Sandisk card that's only really around <V30. No idea why this is. My GH5 would always see the same SanDisk card lose the recording in under a minute. Oh, and stills! I'm not really a stills guy at all yet but obviously this is the camera for a hybrid shooter, I like what I see from it so far and look forward to snapping more and more with it. Again, nothing since my Panasonic GX8 all the way through models up to GH5 really gave me that feeling (well, except for when I owned an XH1 briefly, which seemed very good), the stills just always felt like a struggle, mediocre results.

I own AF+MF lenses in EF mount in the 11-16, 28-75 and 85mm focal lengths in much wider apertures than Fuji lenses and even if I liked the lens OIS in Fuji lenses (I don't - it's sticky, grabby, robotic. Just not good in video), I don't like the Fuji focus rings for those times I do want to focus manually. Oh and the price. I'd rather keep my full frame glass that continues to be adaptable across camera systems. I'm happy with my EF lenses and between the Fringer adapter and Viltrox speedbooster I have good options for using them on my XT4 with much wider constant apertures than Fuji lenses for anything close to the same money. Even my £20 dumb EOS-FX adapter is decent once I use my ND filters. But anyway. Digressed. I'm currently trying to look into how easy it might be to hack the Fringer or Viltrox firmware files to do a simple multiplier on the focal length value being reported to the camera. If I can trick the camera into thinking it's got a focal length about 60%-70% of the real value (which of course was also already x0.71 on the Viltrox fx2), I can get IBIS I can really live with AND get all my nice electronic communication too. (as opposed to currently inputting the fake focal length on a dumb adaptor and not getting electronic aperture control/AF/EXIF etc). If anyone has any ideas let me know! Currently trying to get binwalk to run through python in Windows so I can do something with the Fringer .bin. The Viltrox firmware file isn't a .bin extension but my understanding is it's a similar deal. Seems to be all in Chinese then too though when simply examined in notepad 😢 Edit: another possibility (fingers crossed!) might be some kind of the usual hacky workarounds along the lines of turning on the camera with nothing attached at first, maybe in some cases with some electronic adapters/some electronic lenses you just might still get to choose your own value in the mount adapter setting or something then. Just don't know yet without the adapters to hand to test stuff. Either that or Fuji just gives us an actual legit option to input whatever 'wrong' focal length translation we wish even with electronic and native lenses. or, god forbid, fix how the IBIS actually performs in video.

Beautiful video, best stuff I've seen so far out of the XT4 (particularly handheld) really. His shots don't appear to make the IBIS issues (jumpiness is there) look so terrible. I have the camera a few days now, I use it only with manual lenses. I've been pretty sickened with the IBIS issues, having come from a GH5, it's a lot worse. Very close to returning it and just saving money with an XT3 or XH1 but still undecided... I do own a gimbal (which makes the XT3 even more viable). I think the best tactic I've found so far is to (avoid DIS at all costs), set the focal mount length to about x0.64 to x0.71 of the real focal length. The sticky, stepping, grabbiness of the IBIS is still there I guess but it's downscaled, mitigated to something pretty usable that, crucially, still is enough that it smooths out your actual UN-intentional hand shakiness. Its ugly little quantised steps in sensor movement are smaller, but there's still enough IBIS to look smoother than pure handheld without IBIS. The huge catch here is that I guess Fuji doesn't allow you to set the focal mount length yourself when any lens is attached with electronic communication. So I don't know what the hell I'll be able to do then to improve the stabilisation stickiness. An EASY band-aid for the video IBIS imo would be to always allow the user to set a downscaled focal mount length like this to mitigate the over zealous IBIS. Anyone else found similar stuff when testing the IBIS? I know the DIS is bad (except for purely static 'tripod-like') shots, but I'm still unsure if IS Boost is helping or harming. Results seem to vary with it all the time. Haven't used any OIS lenses with Fuji yet but I'm pretty sure I'm not really interested in them. For video the lens OIS always causes grabby stepping jitters imo and anyway it just reduces the glass options, so, so much.