Jimmy G

Well, I'll respectively have to disagree...back in my Canon HD-shooting days I greatly enjoyed being able to shoot both full frame (5DII) and with APS-C (7D) for the advantages both sensor sizes offered...low light and ultra wide for the FF and, um, more pixels-per-duck (ha!) with the same telephoto lenses on APS-C. Same, too, with my previous Sony a7SII, a7R and a6300 setups. This still holds true for me today... Since going all-in with Panasonic with their L-mount I've been eagerly eyeing their MFT offerings waiting for the right time to invest in that mount-system for the very same reasons I owned FF/APS-C. I've been a hair-away from pulling the trigger on a GH5S for the past few years but the lack of IBIS/Dual-IS has always been the sobering omission that kept that from ever happening. The S1's crop modes have been my "sort-of" solution for more PPD (quack) but I decided to take to public encouraging (shaming, actually) Panasonic to finally get their act together and get their Organic sensors out of R&D and into customer's hands. (We'll see how that paid off next week! LOL!) Now, while the GH6 will in no way offer the size and weight savings of, oh say, a G95, it will still resemble the classic SLR look that (in my experience) most non-photography folks ignore in public settings. And, for me, a 100-400 will still frame like my Sigma 300-800mm with all the advantages of being hand-holdable and providing incredible Dual-IS, er, yumminess! And that 300-800 will frame like a 600-1600mm...duckies, here I come! So, yeah, this shooter is eagerly awaiting next week's announcements and is hoping all my check-boxes for what I'd like to see in this camera get filled! 🙂 Long live MFT!

@kye @Django re: ARRI Seeing how the vast majority of recent Sundance films used their cameras, I can certainly understand a potential camera buyer's curiosity and desire to know how well a particular camera holds up against ARRI's offerings... The Cameras Behind Sundance 2021: ALEXA Mini Rules, and the BMPCC Chimes-In - Y.M.Cinema - News & Insights on Digital Cinema https://ymcinema.com/2021/01/31/the-cameras-behind-sundance-2021-alexa-mini-rules-and-the-bmpcc-chimes-in/ ...methinks the ARRI image/look is (has become) the, cough, "gold standard" within certain creative circles. That said, I think what Panasonic is offering with their MFT lineup, and the GH line in particular, is meant to appeal to both professionals and non- alike. Being able to shoot untethered clearly has it's advantages for numerous environments (bumper cams, bike cams, underwater, spelunking, hiking, street, immediately come to mind), it would be nice to see them include all flavors of output (read: RAW, ProRes, etc.) internally, as well. Early "leaked" specs (if they are to be believed) seem to indicate a move in that direction, some of us have absolutely zero desire for an external recorder. This S1 shooter is, in fact, still quite pissed at Panasonic that the XQD slots have never been used to their potential, 1400/1700MBs sustained write speeds would easily accommodate ProRes HQ and RAW. (Not too late for a firmware update, folks! 😉 ) _______________________________________ @kye Re: ARRI ALEV sensor Panasonic's organic sensor technology has been an ongoing interest of mine for the past several years, I can see how their organic film technology can provide for increased DR, and how their architecture provides for global shutter ability...it's been an excruciatingly long wait (originally announced in 2013, to my knowledge) to see some form of this tech make it to market. I'm a bit of a geek here with and Associates Degree in Communications Technology (heavy on components and circuit design) so I find plowing through technical specs sheets to be interesting and, I suppose, less-daunting than for folks without the background...though I consider myself a dabbler, at best. LOL The ARRI image you provided seems to indicate single channel CMOS outputs that are split, er, "after the fact" for the high and low sensitivities. I have not looked into what ARRI/OnSemi have created, perhaps someone will come along with a link revealing something more than a simple brochure image? Not the same as a dual-pixel approach. In simple terms, the goal here is to increase the dB response of the system. Where each stop of DR equals ~6dB, a 100 dB system output would provide (100 ÷ 6 = ) ~16.67 stops of DR. My guess is that ARRI is employing some sort of dual gain (perhaps via applied bias voltage) amplifier to their CMOS output voltages to, er, suss out (derive) both high and low signal ranges. Again, not the same as the dual-pixel approach my example showed where high and low ranges are measured/attained on sensor. _______________________________ TLDR: regardless the methodology, wider DR is wider DR...here's to success no matter how the various companies get there! 🙂

I was just going to post these, but you beat me to it, looks like OM Systems has set a high bar for MFT! I'm impressed with the noise performance and DR in this mostly-dark shoot, shadows look great to my eyes all-the-while not blowing out the streaming sunlight coming through the trees. Also, doing a frame-by-frame-advance look at the fast panning and cable cam shots it looks like rolling shutter is extremely minimal to nearly imperceptible in all but the quickest of frame travels (or maybe it wasn't there at all and I was looking at naturally bent trees?)...truly impressive. And the slow motion shots do not seem to exhibit any line-skipping/moire artifacts, so I'm guessing a true down-rezzed 4K to 1080 for the ultra-slow shots? Nice job, OM folks! Hopefully, Panasonic followed suit with some creative filmmakers to showcase the GH6 release next week?! Great times, these! 🙂

From my read of this article, Panasonic's, er, "dual gain" is accomplished through the use (of what they refer to as) DS-Pixels (dual-sensitivity pixel) STAP14003fig05_hr.jpg (JPEG Image, 669 × 414 pixels) ...as described in this article (above Citation)... Advanced features of layered-structure organic-photoconductive-film CMOS image sensor: Over 120 dB wide dynamic range function and photoelectric-conversion-controlled global shutter function - IOPscience https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.7567/JJAP.57.1002B4 What's most interesting to me is the caption to Figure 4 in that article... << Figure 4 shows a summary of the dynamic range of several materials. The dynamic range of a common silicon image sensor is about 76 dB; however, the dynamic range of the human eyes is said to be 110 dB, including calculation in the brain. This dynamic range is far below the human eyes' capacity. Therefore, we decided to exceed the human eyes' capacity without the above problems by using the new structure of the OPF image sensor, to realize accurate and texture-rich imaging and sensing. We set our SC-WDR target to over 120 dB. >> ...again, image link from above linked paper... STAP14003fig04_hr.jpg (JPEG Image, 491 × 400 pixels) Finally, the acknowledgements from that article... << Acknowledgments We would like to thank the engineers of Panasonic Semiconductor Solutions Co., Ltd., Semiconductor Business Unit and Panasonic Corporation Automotive & Industrial Systems Company Engineering Division for support in chip design. >> _____________________________ FWIW, "all of the above" jibes well with Panasonic's press release from 2018... Panasonic Develops Industry's-First 8K High-Resolution, High-Performance Global Shutter Technology using Organic-Photoconductive-Film CMOS Image Sensor | Headquarters News | Panasonic Newsroom Global https://news.panasonic.com/global/press/data/2018/02/en180214-2/en180214-2.html ...so, maybe there is an OPF-CMOS organic sensor in the GH6 after-all...er, no "rats"?!

Seems that that video has gone private, however I did locate a translated version of (what I think is) that same video (or, apparently highlights, thereof) here... Panasonic GH6 Leaked Video - Translated - YouTube ...does that look like the same video you viewed earlier? More of a walk-through of the camera's layout than a discussion of any video or stills specs. Some (internal?) ProRes and All-I options are seen during a brief menu peek, so that's encouraging. Though the (untranslated) section where they're showing an assortment of ND filters seems to shoot down my long-held hopes for Panasonic to finally come-through with an Organic sensor (with on-sensor voltage-controlled variable-ND) for this release...rats. Anyhoo, I hope this link helps with your question? 🙂

Not much to unpack here at all... As I noted in that other thread, the Imatest article is a PSA (of sorts) to help educate its customers about "exaggerated" DR claims being made while using their (Imatest) equipment. Their "Key Takeaways" section at the bottom of that link pretty much says it all. 😉

Um, that Imatest article is a PSA, of sorts, alerting customers about misrepresentative claims for certain SDR-class products claiming "exagerrated" HDR-level sensor performance using their test equipment. From that same link... << Key takeaways—Flare light was not an issue with the high-quality DSLR/mirrrorless lenses we tested in the past, but it has become a major factor limiting the performance of recent low-cost lenses intended for the automotive or security industries. We have seen examples of how flare light can improve traditional DR measurements while degrading actual camera DR. Our approach to resolving this issue is to limit quality-based DR measurements (the range of densities where SNR ≥ 20dB for high quality through SNR ≥ 0dB for low quality) to the slope-based DR. This works because, for patches beyond the slope-based limit (where the slope of log pixel level vs. log exposure drops below 0.075 of the maximum slope): •Contrast is too low for image features to be clearly visible. •Signal is dominated by flare light, which washes out real signals from the test chart; i.e., the “signal” is an artifact, not the real deal. Limiting quality-based DR in this way significantly improves measurement accuracy, and perhaps more importantly, can help prevent inferior, low-quality lenses being accepted for applications critical to automotive safety or security. >> ___________________________ Also, that you could provide a citation for your "gas-guzzler/ battery leech" statement would help move this conversation forward; as noted in my previous post's link, Panasonic's Rep clearly states that this technology will be heading to their "cinema and studio camera and even into the consumer including Lumix" products so it would be helpful to know that feeding an organic sensor might require new battery/power considerations...otherwise the comment remains as unsubstantiated conjecture. As for the BM plugs, this thread regards GH6 rumors. Speaking of which... ...latest off the rumor vine sites is... << rolling shutter is eliminated >> ...one down, two to go! Now if they start talking "voltage-controlled variable ND" and "15–16 stops DR" methinks it bodes well for an organic sensor...finally! Ha! 🙂

The key piece of "ground breaking" technology I've been waiting to get my hands on is Panasonic's long-talked-about organic sensor technology (first announced back in 2013, FWIW)..."global shutter", "15-to-16 stops" DR, voltage-controlled "variable ND filter" functionality...all quoted from here by Panasonic's Takashi Ishii... An exclusive insight into the Panasonic 8K organic sensor - YouTube He goes on to say, "But this organic sensor technology will be implemented into the cinema and studio camera and even into the consumer including Lumix after the Tokyo Olympic Games." at the 2:35 Mark (above link) back in 2019 at IBC. Well, it's 2022 now and I'm more than a bit discouraged to discover just how long it's taking Panasonic to get something out of R&D and into its customer's hands...9-years has been a long time to wait and I'm no longer a 50-something fellow. LOL That they offer nothing else new in the GH6 (cough, 8K) this one inclusion of organic sensor technology (re: global shutter, 15–16 stops DR, Variable ND) would be cause for major celebration by this user. Jimmy G 🙂 2013 Panasonic Citation: Fujifilm and Panasonic jointly develop an organic CMOS image sensor technology using organic photoelectric conversion layer | Headquarters News | Panasonic Newsroom Global https://news.panasonic.com/global/press/data/2013/06/en130611-7/en130611-7.html

I'd have to give a shout out to the creative folks of CRFTSHO for their very candid and sometimes brutally honest take on the technology (disclaimer: I am in no way affiliated or associated with these folks, link posted for FYI purposes only. Mod kindly remove link if in violation of TOS.)... CRFTSHO - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/CRFTSHO/videos ..their more "hands-on" and "how to" content has proven invaluable to me in the field (with, of course, needed extrapolation for my shooting needs), YMMV. That and a local college course to learn how to use FCPX (which I had to tank at due to the pandemic killing the classroom experience back in '20...redo, hopefully next year). That and watching and learning from whatever my fellow local birding/wildlife shooters are sharing and doing and hoping my contributions add to the pool. That, and keeping that "curious little kid inside me who started chasing this whole "imaging path" thing over a half-century ago" eagerly in the game by constantly asking myself "what I'd like to be able to do next" with these "uber-neat toys" I call "my creative tools"! :)

Andrew, etal, It's a fine, fine thing you've created here, kind sir. Many thanks to you and fellow forum folks, from this lone shooter, for the continuing experiential perspectives, insights and education...a welcoming place for me to have shared whatever "small change" I've had to offer in return. Gladdened to hear it shall live on, and with renewed breath...'tis a fine, fine thing, indeed! 🙂 Jimmy G

^^LOL^^ Big fan of zooms for my nature/wildlife documentation, my 2xS1 setups contain the 24-105 kit and a EF-adapted Sigma 150-600 Contemporary (soon to be replaced by a native L-mount 150-600 Sport) and my low-light setups are the EF-adapted f/1.8 Sigma's 18-35 and 50-100 Arts and f/2.8 120-300 Sport. My primes (EF-adapted f/1.4 Sigma 20, 50 and 85) are specialized for night scenarios and see the least amount of usage. None of these lenses are slouches and I could care less if any suffered from vignetting, lack of corner sharpness or focus breathing, my subjects are always middle-thirds. Zooms all the way for this shooter (well, mostly! Ha!).

Ahh, my bad, I just reread your original post...you want to add ambience via 3.5mm stereo mic to your XLR mics, got it! That so, I've enjoyed my RØDE VideoMicro and Audio-Technica Pro24-CM very much as ambient mics going back to my 5D MarkII/7D days though I was not a fan of either mic's shock mounts (the former is front heavy with the furry requiring delicate balance on the single lyre, and the latter allowed too much handling noise through, though if one could/would work with/around those limitations the mics both sounded and worked great for my needs at the time). Since moving to Panasonic I am in love with their own DMW-MS2 mid-side mic for my S1's (I have one for each body plus a backup unit!), have you considered (or added to your list) Canon's own DM-E1 offering either directional shotgun or switchable 90° and 120° stereo fields (methinks with those abilities this might very well be a mid-side mic though they don't specifically state such)? To me, mics are like shoes, ya gotta try a lot on to see which fit best! 😉 Keep us posted on your decision!

Hi Matt, I am curious as to what type of sound environments (i.e. do/have you take/taken to taking SPL measurements of your locations?) you'll be looking to record in, it should help better inform community response. I bring the matter of "better understanding one's sound environment" up as it helped me decide on how to move forward with a mic choice for my nature/wildlife recording adventures for the upcoming year. I recently resurrected my Roland R-26 (which had found light usage due to noisy handling issues when trying to use the internal mics) for use with an XLR stereo mic. That choice was the Audio-Technica BP4029 mid-side mic...which, quite literally, just arrived yesterday! Spec-wise, at... Mid: 72dBSPL,1kHzat1Pa; Side: 68 dB SPL, 1 kHz at 1 Pa; LR stereo: 70 dB SPL, 1 kHz at 1 Pa ...it's not the quietest mic on the market (i.e.~23dB self-noise) but my mostly suburban/exburban/rural recording locations are ambiently noisy enough that I'm not too concerned (based on scouring the internet for audio samples) with its expected satisfactory performance. I cannot, as yet, comment on the performance of this combo as first tests await the arrival of a 10.5' RØDE RT4-DXLR 5-pin-to-dual-3-pin stereo splitter cable to supplant the (inadequately too-short for handheld use) supplied ~30" splitter cable that came with the 4029. Ha! As the BP4029 can send signal as either mid-side or separate mid and side channels, and since the R-26 can either accept the mid-side stereo signal from the mic or decode the separate mid and side mic signals internally or record the separate mid and side channels as-is (which then can be manipulated in a DAW), there's a lot of versatility to be had and I will be running a bunch of tests to see if there are preferable setups for my usage. Anyhoo, just sharing some information on what decision worked for me, I hope it's of some help for you. Best, 🙂 Jimmy G

In the context of a camera review methinks the backlit scene tries to provide example of what can be found in lifted shadows...is that particular example a strong argument for RAW (internal or otherwise)? I think not...merely narrative footage as the reviewer plows through passing points. Some controlled test scenes demonstrating the capabilities of Canon's internal RAW implementation would be of value, but that was not what that video review was about.

DuckDuckGo translates... << The GH6 currently under development aims to achieve both mobility unique to micro Four Threes machines and a variety of video expression capabilities. Newly developed with sensors and engines, it supports 4:2:2 10-bit Cinema4K60p video recording, and plans to achieve unlimited video recording time within the recommended operating temperature. It is a pity that I can not tell you in detail, but please look forward to what kind of camera the GH6 that engineers are still developing with all their heart and soul. >> Glad to read that Panasonic is keeping us in the loop regarding delays, very much looking forward to putting the pandemic's impact on global manufacturing in the rear-view mirror at some point and getting to see what this camera eventually will be! :)

Pleased to see Panasonic embracing the notion that industry folks need quite a different camera design (read: riggable box) than the indie/consumer folks (read: hand grip and flippy screen and EVF for human usage). My hope is that Panasonic will build on this differentiation and provide the indie/consumer folks with a better (read: perceivably lossless) internal 12-, 14-, 16-bit recording format solution that can be, er, "pushed" around like RAW. Ideally, I would like to see something along the lines of a cordless/self-connecting battery-grip/NVME-SSD-recorder for their S-, G-, and GH-series cameras for those in need of such bit-depth levels of capture in their next iterations...a seamless (read: cord-free) and stealthy camera+lens+mic solution for, well, human-beings. (And, yes, leave the vestigal HDMI port, lest we make tears well up, for those still convinced they need to give Blackmagic or Atomos their money to get RAW quality results! Haw!) Now, if the kind folks over at Panasonic will kindly deliver on their year's-long promise for an Organic Sensor (that will negate the need for ND with the use of negative sensor gain) and an ASIC powerful enough that it can handle these needs (kindly put the price tag on it, we will come!) the world can get on with its business of wide-dynamic-range, ambient-light (read:-6 to +22EV) in-camera image capture! F*** cables. That is all, 😉 Jimmy G

Hi independent, etal, My answer is, "why not?" Methinks the diverse masses and their diverse creative needs and desires are best served with the availability of top-notch creative tools, so I say "bravo!" on Apple and any other manufacturers who continue to provide the latest in technology to their customers. Case in point...My sweetie recently decided to try the slow-motion video capabilities of her iPhone after viewing some of the clips I was sending along to her and my daughter from mine, bravo that she had a quickly-available tool in her pocket to do so! Now I am the happy recipient of some slow motion butterfly and hummingbird clips she managed to espy on her day! Maybe, after checking out the dynamic range of ProRes she might also decide to embrace shooting with that format just as she moved from shooting JPGs to shooting RAWs with her Lumix G9! "Hooray!" I say, that I will soon have a pocket camera that can finally match the color fidelity, resolution and, most notably, dynamic range of my old Canon 1014XL-S loaded with a Kodachrome 40 Super 8 cartridge! Ha, that only took 41-years! 1014XL-S - Canon Camera Museum https://global.canon/en/c-museum/product/cine300.html 😉 Jimmy G

USB-C/TB4 and ditch HDMI for those desiring/requiring/insisting for external recording options? Well, sure! However, my "consumer" interest is for internal recording for RAW, etal, formats as the default standard for the industry. The competition has been iPhone, (now with Dolby Vision) and everything it's all-in-one "smart" solutions provide, for the past 10-years and the camera manufacturers can't seem to recognize this simple market truth. The resultant evisceration of the global camera markets has been testament to the intransigence of their combined "corporate thought" which has ultimately proved to be a disservice to their customers, a disservice to their companies and employees and a disservice to their shareholders. Smart ILC cameras needed to be hitting the market 10-years ago, this insistent pushing for what "Hollywood" wants has been a market-killing albatross around the necks of every one from makers to users. All, IMHO. Mega-dongles for consumer cameras, ahahahah! Life vests can be found on the rack. 🙂

I just received an email from Panasonic yesterday with this same announcement, it directs one to a webpage for the event here... lumix live | Panasonic US https://shop.panasonic.com/lumix-live ...perhaps time for a new thread not based on rumors? I would sure like to see Panasonic follow-through on their promise for organic, global-shutter, negative-gain, sensor technology! ;)

To the OP...Methinks the whole camera-manufacturer crowd are missing the mark on what the consumer market wants and needs right now, internal RAW recording. Having just traveled down the path you're on looking for the same RAW recording solutions for my Panasonic S1's I've walked away from the whole idea for the time-being as the market choices for recording RAW are extremely limited at this moment in time...as you yourself have discovered, Ninja V or VideoAssist 12G and, then, all the attachment/mounting gadgetry and compatible SSDs and cables, ad nauseam. Wish I had better news to report. Ideally, if internal RAW is just too difficult a problem for the camera manufacturers to solve, then I'd like to see an outright ditching of the current HDMI mindset and an embracing of USB-C/TB4 ports on cameras which would allow external recording of RAW directly to smartphones and tablets and directly into one's mobile NLE...screw all of this extraneous gear and drives and doodads just to accommodate the unnecessarily-expensive and overly-complicated HDMI workflow! One could be shooting and streaming on-the-fly or immediately editing on-scene with a Camera>USB-C/TB4>smartdevice setup. I'd be wet-my-pants-giddy and love to record ProRes RAW straight to a new 2TB XDR iPad Pro (or upcoming 1TB XDR iPhone 13)...heck, someone could market a camera cage with a swivel screen apparatus for mounting the smartphone-or-tablet/recorder for use as a fully-articulated display! (Patent pending, ;) ...Haw!) Stoopid easy and stoopid smart. Anyhoo, best of luck on your search for answers, sorry I couldn't have been more helpful.

Well, after yesterday's rainy-day birding hike I finally decided that any such addition of external electronic devices is certainly "asking for equipment failure" and, so, external RAW recording is clearly out-of-the-question for my needs. Looks like "Internal RAW recording" is going to be be a priority issue for me on my next camera purchase! Ha! On a positive note for those looking into this device...the folks at atomosdotcom are having a raffle for one of these new units on their website (Disclaimer: I am not an agent for this company!). One should note their contradictory terms and conditions (BOLDing mine)... << 4. There is no entry fee and no purchase necessary to enter this competition. >> ...while later down that same page... << 12. The entrant must update all of their details on my.atomos.com including name, phone number and address ,plus [sic] register at least one Atomos product including the product’s serial number, ID, purchase date and reseller. >> ...before proceeding. LOL. As I am not already a customer (and I'm not, er, "into" corporate data harvesting of my personal information {especially my phone number!} from, uh, "my"-type sites) I will not be entering (and, well, will not be able to enter even if I "wanted to"!)...so, um, "better odds" for some other interested party! 😉

Just to add my data points... I keep two (2) S1's in go-bags for different purposes, one equipped with a Sigma 150-600mm C/MC-21 for my birding/nature imaging, the other with the kit 24-105mm for my wide-angle days. The latter will sometimes sit untouched for several weeks and I do notice an incremental battery draw over time (this is not unusual behavior, all of my Sony and Canon cameras have done the same)...I just checked this bag (which has been sitting about 3 weeks) and the charge is at 80%, which, to me, is normal and to be expected. The former is my near-daily driver and it's not uncommon for me to shoot well-in-excess of 500 still images to SDXC in a morning (some days well-over 1000, it's warbler season, folks!) and (if I'm fortunate) maybe 5–10 60-second video clips to CFExpress B. I carry two spares in my pocket. I shoot until the battery dies which, usually, allows me a full-day's shoot without a battery swap. Only once, in very cold weather, did I ever have to resort to the 3rd battery. I shoot in any outdoor temperature for my area which are generally somewhere between -5°F–95°F (-20°C–35°C). I have had zero issues and I have zero complaints with the performance of my Panasonic-branded BLJ31's. I keep the batteries topped-off every day (except the 24-105 pack) using the supplied BTC-14 charger which (as a nice touch) turns itself off when charging is complete. FWIW, I never head out with a partially-charged battery. IME, much better performance than I ever got out of my Sony NP-FW50's with my a7S II, a7R and a6300, and marginally better performance than I ever got out of my Canon LP-E6's with my 5D II and 7D. The only batteries that I've ever used that have exceeded the performance of the Panasonic batteries have been the Sony NP-F970's that run my VX-2000. Anyhoo, them's my data points. :)

All of which brings up the question, "What exactly does RAW mean?". A pixel/sensel voltage correlated/assigned to a numerical value denoting luminosity x total array? Final array numerical output from each manufacturer's unique processing chain? Recordable data packet stream? If the goal/desire here is to produce an accurate representation of the sensor's output values to max-bit abilities, then I applaud all of the efforts being made by all of the manufacturer's to come up with the "best" (read: cost-effective, customer-need fulfillment, etc.) solutions for their product lines. There is no one sensor or ADC or processor design, nor is there one codec, nor one demosaicing algorithm, nor one compression scheme, etc., the permutations and possibilities are myriad. My interest as consumer/artist(ha!)/amateur-naturalist is to be able to work-in and output-to the 1024-nit values that current 10-bit(stops) monitors provide vs the 256-nit values that older 8-bit(stops) monitors provide...with an eye to the future that one day (hopefully in my lifetime) we can all be working with 4096-nit 12-bit(stops) monitors and beyond. Ergo my interest in shooting today with internal 12-bit compressed, um, "RAW" recording abilities. 🙂

With apologies to all for being OT here... I agree, reading patents is headache-inducing, ha! To clarify my "urban myth" comment, my only (small) point on the matter was that the RED v Sony suit (that is often trotted out as "the" example) covered many issues regarding such topics as camera design, implementations, functionalities, etc., as your link shows ...the suit was not "just about" RAW. However, (from what I'm seeing) the internet being the internet, folks seem to have latched on to (and continue to extrapolate further) the idea that somehow RED's patented RAW compression methodologies are the only one's physically possible in the entire universe. "Hokum", is all I'm saying. ___________________________ On-topic matters...awaiting the release this week of the latest LG C1 OLED models (for review against last year's CX models) to decide which way to go for an HDR grading monitor. :/

I keep seeing this "RED's RAW patent" topic pop up...does anyone have a link or some source material on this matter? It's infathomable to me that a single company could possibly hold some sort of, um, "imperial control" over how the outputted digital bits, coming off of a sensor, are counted and sorted and transported and stored. Disclaimer: I am no lawyer, no mathematician, no digital circuit design wizard. LOL