Jimmy G

Hi Lux Shots, Staying in my lane as one of the "non-professional enthusiast users" in this thread...I agree with your first point that trying to glean any important technical nuggets out of, um, "corporate sales speech" is always a challenge. However, as a "non-professional user with limited budget trying to and make the best purchasing decisions for my imaging, um, pastime", I need to rely on other sources for hand-on information to help me make a purchasing decision. Simply, I do not have the luxury of working in a production environment where I might earn some hands-on experience with RAW equipment and workflows (shooting-to-final edit), nor do I have the luxury of robust resources to layout ($$$) for rentals to try things out for myself. So, I do my best to work within "my means" to try and see if I can get/afford/or-otherwise-wrangle a way to get my Panasonic's "consumer camera" to provide me with the promises of its own advertisement! To your second point regarding RED RAW...I've read lots of online words regarding this subject and, quite frankly, not having a legal/patent background, myself, I find I must apply the same "separating the wheat from the chaff" thinking to "online legal-opinion speech" as I do with "corporate sales speech". My question, "does anyone truly know how much of a, um, stranglehold the RED RAW patent actually has in constraining technological innovation for other manufacturers to come up with their own RAW or others to come up with an open-source RAW format?" Frankly, a lot of the discussion I've read on the matter smacks of "urban myth"...IMHO. ________________________ On to other S1 ProRes RAW matters...it's looking like consumer-grade 4K 120Hz HDR monitors are either non-existent and/or inadequate and/or way out of budget for the task (read: my needs) so I've been looking at LG OLED TV's to properly monitor (with some DCI-P3/REC.2020 color volume issues) any HDR grading. :) -Jim

Thanks for that info, Parker & omega1978, I'd written to Atomos earlier this week with this very question and you've both beaten them to the punch on an answer! :D

Hi Micah, Well, if there are any Panasonic camera hackers out there looking into this I'd certainly be interested to see what they might have come up with for possible solutions. In the meantime it's all "pipe dreams" and prodding Panasonic and Apple to bring the best-of-what-they've-got to the masses. When I consider the development time for products like the S-Series I've got to believe that Panasonic and Apple had been working together for some time and that ProRes RAW was a consideration in the design and capabilities of these cameras long before the public was ever even aware that it would "be a thing". My suspicions remain that there was more-of-a-future planned for the XQD-now-CFExpress B card slot than what we see today. In doing my research into all of this ProRes RAW business and whether it was the right-time-for-me I ran into this informative write-up my NewsShooter columnist, Matthew Allard ASC, regarding the implementation of ProRes RAW on the S1H... Panasonic S1H & Atomos Ninja V ProRes RAW Recording First Impressions - Newsshooter https://www.newsshooter.com/2020/05/20/panasonic-s1h-atomos-ninja-v-prores-raw-recording-first-impressions/ ...and I agree with his sentiments in his final thoughts section after referencing the then-impending Canon cameras arriving with internal RAW recording abilities... << I’m personally not a big fan of external recorders. Sure, they were great back in the day when internal codecs weren’t so good, but today so many cameras have good on-board recording capabilities. In 2020, using an external recorder on a camera such a the S1H seems counter-intuitive. However, if you are looking for that bit of extra quality then it is worth using. >> ...though, in seeing how many more cameras are hitting the market with internal RAW since he wrote that, I disagree with his last sentence. So, why not thermally-time-limited internal ProRes RAW data packet dumps to CFExpress on the S-Series, Panasonic? That is all, 🙂 Jim

Just grabbed the v.2.0 FW updater and VLog_RAWGamut_to_VLog_VGamut_forS1H_ver100.cube LUT, thank you Panasonic! :) Looking keep one of my S1's on v.1.6 for the immediate future so as to do a proper side-by-side of the original 8-bit VLOG output vs. the now internally available 10-bit variants to see what it brings to the table. Regarding the now available external ProRes RAW capabilities, purchasing an Atomos Ninja V (roughly and extra $1000+ upfront cost for the unit + SSD + proper HDMI cable + mounting accessories) seems extremely unlikely (unless I can locate a good deal on someone's used no-longer-loved setup...at an agreeable price, ha!) for the foreseeable future as I'm already in need of figuring out a "best solution" for an external HDR monitor for my desktop NLE setup (2019 i9 iMac Mojave FCPX 10.4.8). I'll have to sit it out with the rest of the non-Ninja-owning crowd and suffice with the online test-reviewers for their experiences and verdicts regarding the RAW capabilities for now. A future FW update for Internal ProRes RAW data packet dumps to the internal CFExpress cards please, Panasonic/Apple. :)

Hi Mark, I read that interview and watched the LUMIX firmware update video, too, however my "take away" is a bit different. From my following of events surrounding the S1 (I own 2) these, er, "talking points" about thermal limitations are a very recent phenomenon and seem to coincide with explaining away user requests (like my own) for full internal recording capabilities. I have to believe that the Panasonic engineers had to know full-well before release about the internal effects from heat from their card choices for this model... Initially, the larger card slot was for XQD which, fwiw, suffers worse thermal generation issues than current model CFExpress B Cards. The result? There was a gain in thermal tolerance/performance when they allowed/implemented for CFE. Next gen CFExpress B promises even better thermal performance. But the question has always been, "what was the original (hotter) XQD speed to be used for?" There is no internal recording function that I can see that capitalizes on that speed ability, even after the V.2.0 firmware that's arriving next week. I do not believe that such a specific component as the (original and hotter) XQD slot was manufactured and delivered without a future intent. At present, it only ads cost to manufacture and user costs to purchase and feed. Something just does not add up (well, in my mind). And what is even more curious to me is why the more-video-capable and better-thermally-designed S1H arrived with zero CFExpress slots (and I'll spare everyone a regurgitation of my theories on that one! Ha!)? I'd love to see ProRes RAW data packet to CFExpress recording, even if it requires time limits due to thermal limits. Maybe Panasonic has been working an a "Panasonic RAW"? If so, let us record to card! Meanwhile, thermals be damned, the competition is not sleeping in this regard. 🙂 -Jim

I've been debating whether acquiring a Ninja V to experiment with what VLOG/ProRes RAW might offer over the internal VLOG options for HDR. I was a bit disappointed in finding out through my inquiries this past week that the only option to record ProRes RAW is with the Ninja V...is this all this much in it's infancy that there exists no other market choices?! I was also disappointed after watching last week's LUMIX YT presentation to learn that Panasonic still had nothing to say regarding piping the RAW data packets over the internal PCIe bus to the internal CFExpress cards and will instead continue to only make that data dump available through the HDMI pipeline to external recorders. There was a fair amount of talk inferring thermal capacity of the S1 body as a limitation but what still does not add up to me is that they state (on one hand) that the heat is generated by the internal processing done before sending data to their cards for their internal codecs, but did not satisfactorily (to my viewing and listening) reconcile (as they stated on the other hand) that packet-izing the RAW data requires no internal image processing (so less heat), only sensor data transport? So, simply put, packetizing the RAW data generates less internal heat than that caused by the internal image processing that is sent to the internal cards. Sooo, if internal codec recording times are dictated by... 1. Sensor image processing heat + writing to card heat = 15 minutes, why is it if... 2. 0 sensor image processing heat only RAW packetizing + HDMI piping = unlimited record time, and... 3. Sensor image processing heat + HDMI piping = unlimited record time, that... 4. 0 sensor image processing heat only RAW packetizing + writing to card heat ≠ at least 15 minutes? By what the Panasonic reps stated, scenario 4 should generate less internal heat than scenario 1, so why not allow the RAW data packets (with time limits, if that needs to be so) that fit the S1's thermal design...i.e. 15-minutes, or whatever it works out to (they have the thermal numbers)? My point, all along (and I will not tire from this), I'd prefer to be focused on shooting the bird and frog, etc. activities (that actually require my attention!) while I'm out in the field rather than fiddling around with a recorder and settings and connections and snag points and added weight whilst missing vital irreproducible action, I can fiddle with the RAW data to my heart's content in FCPX when I get home. And I'm sure I am not alone in wishing to be able to record RAW internally (just like all the other codecs) without the fuss and muss of extraneous gear. 🙂 -Jim

My take was bit contrary...methinks the S1H was originally slated for dual-XQD/CFExpress card slots and that the, er, "Pro" community got to Panasonic's S1-series design team and had them nix that idea instead advocating for robust external recording abilities. Methinks, also, that Panasonic likely then found themselves in a bit of a marketing quandary as the S1/R were likely designed to take advantage of those high-speed slots at some point down the road but doing so would cause a "world of hurt" and the ensuing complaints with the SD-only S1H crowd thinking that they somehow got gipped...which happened anyways! LOL! IMHO, Panasonic needs to stop taking recommendations from the, er, "Pro" community on their feature plans for their indie/wedding/event class "pro"sumer cameras. Methinks the, er, "Pro" video voices screwed the GH5S out of getting IBIS, methinks the, er, "Pro" photographer voices screwed the S1/R out of getting a full tilt-swivel rear display, and methinks that the, er, "Pro" video crowd screwed the S1/R from getting higher in-camera bit-rate video functionality over XQD/CFExpress. Er, "Pros" are, er, "Pros" and indies are indies. Different markets, different needs...different cameras, IMHO. 😉 Jim

Hi Lux Shots, Well, what I got out of your video and your comments is that I really should take a closer look at how my glass behaves/performs in crop mode versus FF IQ-wise. I knew that my video imaging at long-focal lengths (Sigma 150-600MM C for distant birds) clearly took a hit and looked different whether I was shooting crop (for the 4K 60P slo-mo) or FF but sort of just accepted the trade-off as, "well, this is the best they can offer right now". I'll certainly be an advocate for FF 4K 60P and FF 4K 120P, going forward! 😄 A technical question, while going over your footage frame-by-frame I noticed in the final shot (a snowfall scene) that the dash streaks caused by the falling snowflakes were continuous from frame to frame versus being spaced dashes frame-to-frame like everywhere else in the video...which led me to think that maybe you were using a 360° shutter angle for that final shot vs. 180° shutter angle for the rest? I ask as I haven't yet figured out how to best improve my own attempts a shooting video in either snow or rain. Also, to stay on topic, I'd be curious as to your ISO choices for the S1 in low light environment shots. Jim

I am primarily a stills shooter and everything writes just fine to my ProGrade SD XCII V90 Read/Write 300/250MB/s cards with zero buffer issues and zero lag and zero lost frames while shooting stills, and the card-to-computer upload times are simply fabulous. I shoot my video files to the XQD/CFExpress slot and the R/W 1700/1500MB/s is simply overkill and an unnecessary added expense (both for it adding to the camera's upfront cost/price and for the media to feed it) for that need. Heck, the S1 doesn't even have 400MB/s All-I (and doesn't look to be ever getting it)...which, FWIW, had been my Firmware Update "sprinter" hope for that slot when I purchased the camera (heck, I even thought that maybe they'd be surprising us with 600MB/s All-I. Ha!)...but, alas, it'll still be a "trotter" at 200MB/s LongGOP with the upcoming v.2.0 FW update. Am I feeling little burned from the experience? You bet. As an early adopter, having bought my first S1 prior to the (at the time) promised SFU2 Log Update, I was encouraged by what Panasonic had constructed...solid build, weather sealing, fabulous high-ISO performance, great layout, fantastic EVF, tons of functionality aaand high-speed media slots...and the promise of what the camera could/would be when they hopefully?/eventually? unleashed the capabilities of those high-speed slots. To use a car analogy, when it comes to speed "this thing was built to burn rubber", however, at the end of the day "it's still only a highway driver", all of this, IMHO. :) jim

To follow up on my confusions as to why external ProRes RAW shooting was only possible on the Ninja V... The kind folks at Apple's ProRes Team finally set me straight on this one, it turns out (as I'm sure many of you already knew the answer), that the Ninja V is the only recorder in the Atomos lineup that can record ProRes RAW over HDMI. Ahahahah, I figured it was something obvious that I was missing! Newbie, HDR-shooting-wannabee, myself, I just figured all flavors of ProRes had been transportable over HDMI all along! Not so, apparently ProRes RAW over HDMI is a relatively new thing from back in 2018... Firmware Update To Output RAW over HDMI? Is that even remotely possible??? - Cameras - EOSHD Forum ...I'll suggest to the manufacturers involved that they assume that a fair amount of their target customers are not following along on the latest tech developments and that what might seem obvious to those doing this on a regular basis is not made clear anywhere in the advertising...be it Atomos, Panasonic or Apple. So, again, to my comments in the GH6 thread about needing to make the camera gear more consumer-friendly, communication of, er, "obvious facts" should not be assumed but broadcast boldly. And (if any of the manufacturers have agents here reading these forums) compatibility should be clearly displayed...as of this posting Atomos still does not list S1, GH5s, G9 on their Ninja V compatibility page nor, of the cameras listed, do they differentiate between those that can record non-RAW ProRes only and those that can record ProRes RAW or the ones that record ProRes RAW over SDI vs HDMI. The same holds true for Apple on their ProRes compatibility page (where my confusion began)...there is clearly a world of difference between a ProRes RAW over SDI and ProRes RAW over HDMI recorder and their list should denote that difference boldly, too. And Panasonic is not off the hook here either, IMHO, as they should boldly state those very same (SDI, HDMI) RAW recording differences for their products. I'm not sure how many other consumers would bother chasing down the proper smart shopping answers or will just look at this section of the market and walk away either discouraged or confused or just saying, "too complicated, not for me."? Hint: Internal RAW recording on your next FW and models, Panasonic, etal manufacturers. “Simplify, Simplify, Simplify” - Henry David Thoreau 🙂 jim

Hi Lux Shots, My quick list based on IQ only... opening car sequence (also strange phasing going on with wheel rims in the slo-mo, also purple fringing in headlights) 00:00:48:15, 01:07:18, 01:36:13 final shot ...all have lesser sharpness pretty much in agreement with Mark Romero 2's comments below. However, the shots I've listed look to have been shot with a longer lens than the rest (short tele vs. wide angle) vs. being punch-ins, there is clearly a punch-in at 00:01:48:11. I'd suspect the long shot lens to be of lesser quality than your WA and may be contributing to the sharpness loss, thoughts? If there are other subtle differences based on HEVC my eye is not familiar enough to pick them out (been shooting various 8-bit internal Picture Profiles, thus far), so (in case I've "missed it") I'd be curious to hear what you're seeing? In the context of a music video (where often one sees mixed media being used throughout) the IQ changes are, (again) to my eyes and sensibilities, both ignorable and maybe expected. However if that's not what you were trying to convey, then, yes, the IQ differences could be problematic with either you or the client...all IMHO. Nicely done...definitely beyond my skill set and the camera output (as I expected from shooting my S1's) was tops. Thanks for sharing for review and comment! :) Jim

Well, after watching yesterday's LUMIX Cameras YT channel live stream [link] covering the upcoming S-Sries FW updates I'm still not seeing the reason for XQD/CFExpress B in the S1. I had hoped (when buying the camera) that having such a high-speed card slot forebode some sort of upcoming FW update that could/would make use of those data transfer speeds. I actually thought, "Hmm, this thing is built to be a sprinter, let's see what Panasonic has in store for that card slot!" only to find out it's always going to be a trotter. (Too harsh?) I'm thinking engineering/marketing department overshoot? No CFExpress B on subsequent S1H, S5, I suppose we'll never know.

Hrm, 😕 , couldn't edit my above post... "Non-RAW ProRes apparently will work across any recording device with a "clean HDMI" signal" should read, "Non-RAW ProRes apparently will work across any ProRes-capable recording device with a "clean HDMI" signal". 🙂

Just a followup to my earlier post regarding "Ninja V-only for S1 ProRes RAW", Panasonic Rep Sean Robinson kindly responded to my question at the above posted YT link to confirm that status as accurate. Also, I've got pending correspondence out with the folks at Apple regarding what it is with ProRes RAW that the S1 will not work with the other Atomos ProRes RAW-compatible recorders (Neons, Sumo, Shogun 7, etc.) as listed on their official ProRes/ProRes RAW compatibility page [link] ...I'm suspecting I'm missing something obvious here. Non-RAW ProRes apparently will work across any recording device with a "clean HDMI" signal, but the RAW version seems to be camera/recorder specific? I'll report back what I learn. Also, Atomos did take my inquiries for Shogun 7, etc. ProRes RAW functionality and said it would be considered as a future feature request. :) Jim

Hi Lux Shots, This page does not load in FF or Safari (Can't find server), however, your second post/link does work and I've downloaded the file for later viewing. Thanks for taking the time to put that together and share it here! :) Jim

Just got an email from Panasonic that they're live-streaming about the upcoming firmware updates tomorrow (the 25th) at 2 p.m. EDT on their LUMIX Cameras YT channel, host Sean Robinson, guest Matt Frazer, here's the link... LUMIX Live : The S Series Firmware - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWwMrA3ILbg ...my question will be, "Ninja V only? No love for the Atomos Shogun 7 or Sumo 19 or Neons with ProRes RAW from the S1, etc.?" (I've been chasing down rabbit holes for several days now with Atomos, Panasonic and Apple for an answer on this! I'm hard-pressed to believe that ProRes is so finicky that it will only work with specific combinations of cameras and recorders?! Oofah!)

Hi barefoot_dp, Well, we're both clearly assessing the market from different needs (you sound like you might be a paid professional with paying clients; me, I'm just some no-client retired fella who likes to go out and capture the beauty of nature for my own enjoyment) and methinks that's part of the (many) challenges facing camera manufacturers today...pros, indies, artists, hobbyists, YT'ers, FB'ers, etc. all looking for creative tools to suit their needs... ...so, "whither goest" Panasonic with its GH6? The way I see things playing out for the immediate future, smartphones-to-consumption devices (Read: TVs, smartphones, home computers) are going to dominate the lion's share of HDR creation and consumption tools here on Planet Earth by the winter holiday season 2021. That's a huge market and I feel certain that Panasonic (along with every other camera maker) is trying their best to figure out how to create sensible and profitable products for this market...or face irrelevance or, worse, extinction. The GH6, this isn't about satisfying the pros, in my humble estimation, that path is a "world of hurt" for Panasonic's non-pro/non-client customer base and has created the current market of infathomable gear choices and unnecessary complexity and added expense...well, IMHO. Take a gander at this nightmare story, it's what I (and countless others) am (are) finding out the hard way as I (we) try to figure out the smoothest path to shoot HDR for myself (ourselves)... I went through hell to make an HDR YouTube video so you don’t have to | Engadget https://www.engadget.com/creating-hdr-videos-for-youtube-is-hell-140028098.html ...and the linked video therein (equally applies to my gear)...grab some popcorn and a vomit bag... I went through hell to upload this HDR video - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kACAFy3yYdc ...and that's a world of difference from one-tap shooting HDR on an iPhone and one-tap posting it online experience that's going to take that lion's share of profits. The doomsday clock for the camera manufacturers is ticking, you can keep your cinema camera, er, "solutions"...the GH6 needs to help change the current nightmare paradigm. Jimbo's GH6 Wishlist (and recipe to avoid irrelevance and extinction! Haw!)... 1. 8K Organic sensor, by my industry research, it'll be "in there". Check. 2. ~4-inch HDR1000 Display and HDR1000 EVF. I don't need or want "no stinkin'" dongles and extraneous apparatus to monitor my HDR shooting. It'll likely be in the iPhone 13, so "time's a tickin'". 3. Internal recording of all bit-rates, all chroma-subsamplings and all codecs. Period. 4. Dual-Slot recording for proxies and full files. 5. Thunderbolt i/o and power connectivity. Screw HDMI and BNC/SDI connections. 6. One-tap wireless proxy transfer to smart devices for quick turnaround/posting/distribution. Kudos to Panasonic on the next wave of firmware updates for my 2 S1's, keep that train a-goin' and provide us 10-/12-VLOG bits on my internal cards next firmware go-'round, it'll make the wait for the GH6/S2 more tolerable and at least make sure it's "in there" on the GH6 and all future cameras. 😄 My morning coffee 2¢, 🙂 Jim

...I'd be "in" with that, as long as it records with audio, too! :)

Hi barefoot_dp, Well, the niche may be small for my particular nature video interests, but (from my online reading) there is clearly an interest for in-camera 10-/12-bit and/or RAW recording abilities with the run-and-gun and wedding/event folks, so I'm not feeling so alone in this pursuit. 😄 To your question, my goal is to start shooting for HDR output and the better the quality of the original capture files the more versatility and future-proofing it will provide. To put this into context, I had a conversation with one of the Panasonic reps (you'd recognize him from their online tutorials) at the PDN PhotoPlus expo in NYC back in late-'19 and inquired about this very subject and my desires for the same full choices for internal recording as were being provided for with external recording (for the very reasons I've here expressed). And their question to me regarding 4:2:2 vs 4:2:0 was, "If your workflow is in Rec.709 SDR why would you want 10-bit 4:2:2 when you're not going to be able to see the difference?" And my answer to him was the same as I'm giving you here, "Well, that's not always going to be true. Sometime in the not-too-distant-future we're all going to be shooting Rec.2020 HDR and I'd like to start capturing my files for that environment today. If, today, I capture an eagle snatching a fish from the water I want that footage to look spectacular today in SDR aaand I also want it to also look even more spectacular in HDR when I'm able to use that very same footage to its full advantage five or ten years from now!". I'm not arguing against the utility of external recorders for those that need them for their workflows, all I'm requesting is that the same bit-dumps should be made available to my internal XQD/CFExpress cards recording at 1700MB/s as are being piped out over HDMI to AtomX drives recording at 540MB/s. Doesn't seem like too much to ask, is it? 😉 Jim

Hi barefoot_dp, Well, my primary focus is always on photography, having the ability to choose to video my subject matter (think birds, flowers, insects, etc.) in the moment at the same high quality as my RAW stills files is (has been) my desire and goal. When I first got my hands on the Canon 5D Mark II over a decade ago I was able to finally retire my Sony VX-2000 from field use..."At long last, a one camera solution for both stills and video! Happy days!". I can't imagine any scenario where I'd ever go back to a two-camera solution for my field (Read: parks, trails, off-trail bushwhacking), um, "work" (Read: play). 😉 FWIW (as an aside), I read and post here as I share some of the same needs and desires of the run-and-gun and/or wedding/event crowds for simple and manageable and, hopefully, light-weight solutions for my nature imaging...external recorders with dangling wires and arms and brackets do not fit well with my hiking needs in changing weather. It's enough that I have an unprotected microphone sitting on top of the hot shoe. I'm encouraged to see other company's embracing internal recording for their higher bit rate formats (like, um, RAW, but I'll be happy with 12-bit internal VLOG at all frame rates), my goal with my post was to let Panasonic know that there a users out here that are not shooting for NetFlix releases and do not want or need any external gear to accomplish our shooting goals and that they seriously need to look at what their competitors are starting to offer in these regards. Trust me, I do look at "Cinema" cameras and sometimes drool at their output, but then reality sets in..."me on an AT side trail or at a local park with a shoulder mount", not happening. A. I no longer have the stamina of a younger man, and B. my "aging hippie" look already scares enough folks! Ha! 😄 Jim

Here's a nice read on how CMOS sensors function and how they can be selectively controlled at the pixel level... Architecture of CMOS Image Sensors - Focal Plane https://www.astronomyclub.xyz/focal-plane/architecture-of-cmos-image-sensors.html ...note "Figure 3. Different scanning schemes available in CMOS sensors."... Also, Panasonic specifically states that their CMOS DFD functions at 480fps (480Hz) and, again, I've got to believe that they're subclocking their subsampled 5.76MP EVF/ 2.1MP Rear Display readouts to the 120/60fps and 60/30fps respectively. Again, more system energy efficient. From here... LUMIX_AF_Guidebook_S1R_S1_S5_version03.pdf https://www.panasonic.com/content/dam/Panasonic/Global/Learn-More/lumix-af-guidebook/LUMIX_AF_Guidebook_S1R_S1_S5_version03.pdf 🙂 Jim

Well, I'm no circuit designer but I've got to think that the main CMOS imaging sensors in digital cameras are subsampled to output to the appropriate resolutions (5.76MP EVF/2.1MP Display on S1), I should think that continuous full sensor output is very energy inefficient.

Hi Cliff, Can you clarify the S1-recording-times and no-6K information you're presenting, it does not jibe with what Panasonic is stating on their latest update page... << ・6K(5952x3968) / 5.9K(5888x3312) / 5.4K(5376x3584) video recording mode in MOV format *¹ -6K 24p, 4:2:0 10bit LongGOP, 200Mbps, LPCM *¹ -5.9K 30p/25p/24p, 4:2:0 10bit LongGOP, 200Mbps, LPCM *¹ -5.4K 30p/25p, 4:2:0 10bit LongGOP, 200Mbps, LPCM *¹ ... *1 Maximum continuous recording time is 15 minutes. >> ...from here... LUMIX FIRMWARE UPDATE - Panasonic https://www.panasonic.com/global/consumer/lumix/firmware_update.html ...am I missing something? Link? Jim

Well, I guess I got "busted" for having not read your article before posting! Ha! "So smartphones are out, as are GoPros or cheap rubbish." But, to a related (side) point, is it not, in part, due to the early adoption of such consumer-friendly and inexpensive, um, "4K creation devices" that helped fuel the widespread adoption of 4K...methinks we're in the middle of seeing this happen again with both 8K and HDR? Anyhoo, back to the topic...

Correction to my above statement, should read "same dang 10-/12-bit 4:2:2 V-LOG data bits". After re-reading Andrew's article where he states, "5.9K/C4K and 4K60/50p 4:2:0 10bit internal video recording" (Bolding mine) and reexamining the official Panasonic Press Release where they provide the following breakdown... << ・6K(5952x3968) / 5.9K(5888x3312) / 5.4K(5376x3584) video recording mode in MOV format *¹ -6K 24p, 4:2:0 10bit LongGOP, 200Mbps, LPCM *¹ -5.9K 30p/25p/24p, 4:2:0 10bit LongGOP, 200Mbps, LPCM *¹ -5.4K 30p/25p, 4:2:0 10bit LongGOP, 200Mbps, LPCM *¹ ・C4K(4096x2160) video recording mode in MOV format -C4K 60p/50p, 4:2:0 10bit LongGOP, 200Mbps, LPCM *² -C4K 60p/50p, 4:2:0 8bit LongGOP, 150Mbps, LPCM *² -C4K 30p/25p/24p, 4:2:2 10bit LongGOP, 150Mbps, LPCM ・4K(3840x2160) 10-bit video recording mode in MOV format -4K 60p/50p, 4:2:0 10bit LongGOP, 200Mbps, LPCM *² ・Anamorphic(3328x2496) video recording mode in MOV format -4K-A 50p, 4:2:0 10bit LongGOP, 200Mbps, LPCM *² -4K-A 50p, 4:2:0 8bit LongGOP, 150Mbps, LPCM *² -4K-A 30p/25p/24p, 4:2:2 10bit LongGOP, 150Mbps, LPCM >> (all Bolding mine) ...from here... LUMIX FIRMWARE UPDATE - Panasonic https://www.panasonic.com/global/consumer/lumix/firmware_update.html ...it looks like the kind folks at Panasonic have granted some of my wish/feature-request by expanding the internal 10-bit in-camera recording with some new options! 🙂 However, of note, I'm still seeing no mention of any 4K/60p/4:2:2 10-bit and 4K/50p/4:2:2 10-bit (versus 4K/60p/4:2:0 10-bit and 4K/50p/4:2:0 10-bit) internal recording options...still HDMI-out only?! >sigh< "Small moves, Ellie, small moves"... 1997-07-11: CQ W9GFO Small Moves Contact - YouTube Contact,(e) small moves... - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB6NNbFHjCc 🙂