kye

It looks to me like it was added in post as part of the grade, but obviously can't confirm that. Apparently it's the same sensor as the P4K, so until we get ISO tests I'd just assume that it's the same as that?

I did notice the flares - they were there but not overpowering.. I'd imagine for many who are interested in the flares in-particular that this might be an interesting option to use in situations where more typical anamorphics would flare too heavily.

I just realised that you have to have the handle in order to use AF... it appears there's no way to configure the buttons on the camera body itself - the manual only talks about configuring the buttons on the optional (and huge) handle.

Perhaps the premise of the question would be interpreted differently if the two cameras were more different to each other. For example, if I asked the same about the GH5 vs GH6, then there would be things to talk about, and spending time looking at the various specs and performance would be worthwhile. It's also helped by the likelihood that I'd own the GH5 and be questioning an upgrade - so it's a question that would have real-world implications and would be of value to discuss, rather than a purely theoretical question. In the case of the A7S3 vs A74, the strengths are very similar or don't really matter (both have enough DR for almost anything you might want to shoot) and the weaknesses are similar too.

I think this entire line of thinking is a product of the online camera ecosystem - it is based on the idea that cameras can be evaluated separately to them being used. It's designed to make you buy the latest stuff. It makes as much sense as having forums devoted to discussing hammers, evaluating their shapes, the materials in the handle, the hardness of the metal, etc, but without talking about using them to build something.

Nice images! The have a softness to the rendering that is quite filmic and very pleasing. I was wondering how much was the adapter, how much was done in post etc, then I saw that you were also using a Takumar, so that would be contributing strongly to the look too I would imagine. I'm not a huge fan of the anamorphic streaks (except in sci-fi or action films) but one thing I really like about anamorphics is the lack of artificial sharpness and the fact that the bokeh is oval-shaped it creates additional separation in a way that circular bokeh doesn't - I find it subtly contributes to the sense that cinema is in a world that is like our world but isn't quite the same.

Yes, a pity it doesn't have BLE. Controlling it with the BM camera app would have been really good. Will said that you can use it with a USB-C hub to connect an SSD while also powering it via USB. Have you tried that? Maybe it is just limited to connecting to one device and the USB charging doesn't count?

All good points, but perhaps most significantly, it has a cooling fan..... in something approaching the size of an action camera. Sony, etc, have no excuses.

AI invented a time machine and you've been amongst us this whole time??

Really? I never realised that... I think M4K just has AF-S, not AF-C. Maybe I just saw how huge the P4K was and never paid much attention beyond that!

You can respectfully disagree, but maybe there's a reason that no-one has done this yet....

There is no such thing as objectively better. There was a famous blind test that included high end cameras like the ARRI Alexa and Red Epic Dragon 6K, but also much lower-end cameras like the GH4.. here's a couple of articles talking about it: https://www.4kshooters.net/2014/08/20/12-cameras-blind-test-bmpc-4k-bmpcc-gh4-arri-alexa-red-epicdragon-6k-sony-f55-fs700-kineraw-mini-canon-c500-5d-mark-iii-1dc/ https://www.4kshooters.net/2014/08/24/12-cameras-test-part-iii-arri-alexa-red-epic-dragon-6k-blackmagic-4k-kineraw-mini-gh4-5d-mark-iii-more/ But here's the kicker - the audience was industry professionals and some of them preferred the GH4 to the ARRI or the RED. In the end, everything is subjective.

Actually, I take back my comments that overheating testing is incomprehensible, because I found this.... (linked to timestamp) ...and in case you don't want to hit play, the BM Micro Studio Camera was used to film inside the race car of a 24 hour race in Daytona, and: it was being powered from the car it was recording 4K to a 4TB SSD in BRAW 8:1 it recorded for 24 hours straight with no overheating and no dropped frames the average temp in the car was 120F / 48C the suspension in a race car is stiff and shaking the camera too Just goes to show - all these huge cameras that overheat in air-conditioning are just flat-out design failures.

Will has just released his full review of the new M4K and it looks like the sleeper camera of the decade.... One thing of extreme interest to me was that it has AF, and although he only shows it once in the video, it looks pretty snappy. Of course, he also mentions that it's the same sensor as the P4K... sooooo, the P4K sensor has AF, but the P4K does not!

It's partly a theoretical point, but I'm not actually sure this has to be the case. It's definitely not the case if you're comparing 709 8-bit vs LOG 8-bit, as LOG 8-bit can be so fragile that you can't even make nice images if you don't need to change WB or exposure at all. The missing piece (and why I said "I'm not sure this has to be the case") is having the colour management to convert back from 709 into something where WB and Exposure adjustments will be made proportionally to the image (ie, like they were done in-camera). I've done a lot of work with the GX85, as I'm sure you've seen, and am still planning on doing more, and I got quite good results with the Gamma wheel when the image was in 709, and using the WB and Offset controls when I'd done a CST to a LOG space (in my case using DWG/DI in Resolve). The reasons that I suggest this are that: when shooting 8-bit there is far more data in the saturation, so the impacts of quantisation are much less when grading the final image to have a normal level of saturation when shooting 8-bit the image SOOC is much closer to the final image in terms of the gamma curve, so you're not stretching those bits that much further apart than they already are, whereas 8-bit LOG needs a lot of additional contrast to be added Of course, the ultimate is having 10-bit HLG, which has full 709 levels of saturation, has a gamma curve much closer to a 709-style output but still retains all the DR from the camera, and it has all the benefits of 10-bit. Once again, HLG isn't a standard so the conversion is a challenge, but I've found that interpreting it as either Rec2020 or Rec2100 works pretty well. I'm currently programming my own grading tool in DCTL for Resolve and my main aim is to incorporate the tools that I'll need to grade 709 images, considering that the GX85 is now my main focus and it's the one that is hardest to get right with the existing tools. Once I have a working prototype I'll be filming my rec709 WB/exposure tests again (with skintones this time) and will update the other thread.

I think it would backfire, because the better the modified firmware got the more that people would become critical of the manufacturer for "crippling" their cameras when they were current models. You have to remember, human beings are wired to prioritise negative information over positive information - this is why newspapers are always talking doom and gloom but never reporting on the progress of eliminating polio or working towards global literacy and numeracy, etc.

I agree with @eatstoomuchjam that either would be fine, even for the more extreme situations. My experience has been that the GH5 (9.7 stops) often wasn't enough for people-in-front-of-sunset but that the P2K (11.2 stops) was hugely better. I wouldn't say that it's all you'd need in that situation, but it made a HUGE difference in that situation for me. Going up to the A7S3 (12.3 stops) would be a huge jump up again and would likely be all you'd need in that situation. But remember, that situation is a really demanding one, and waaaay more than you need in any other lighting scenario - the P2K (11.2 stops) is enough when the sun isn't in shot. It's fun to talk about cameras and look at the specs, but asking which is "better" involves so many variables that the situation really matters. Even things like how you feel matters because you use the camera differently.

No, actually, you're right.. it's me, I'm the silly one. I'd forgotten that the threads about industry news always devolve into everyone arguing about inconsequential rubbish that has no bearing on film-making. Thanks for the reminder and best of luck y'all.

I suggest you read the thread before posting - this is the second post from you that I've seen where you have come in half way through the conversation making comments that look a bit silly..... https://www.eoshd.com/news/adobe-cancel-nikon-n-raw-support-is-redcode-raw-coming-to-a-mirrorless-camera-near-you/ Ah, so theoretical discussion completely divorced from reality it is then. Well, umm.. good luck with that.

Sort-of yes, but also sort-of no. For a start, the Z9 and A1 are both top-of-the-line cameras, so if one can't beat the other given a 4X bitrate advantage, then either the sensor is absolutely rubbish, the processing is absolutely rubbish, or the codec isn't up to much. BUT, none of that matters, because unless you want to have a purely academic and theoretical discussion, you can't get a Sony sensor with N-RAW, so the variables aren't independent. BUT, none of that matters either, because soon you won't be able to get N-RAW on any camera. BUT, none of that matters either, because let's face it... any time you spend worrying about this is time you aren't spending time on what actually matters to make a good and enjoyable film.

I'm confused... you obviously don't want one, so why are you in this thread about camcorders arguing that no-one wants them? I'm not interested in buying any cameras that exist right now, but I'm not sitting in all the threads arguing with people about them.

In Andrews tests, the N-RAW wasn't better than the h265. Soooo, are you asking if R3D files are better than h265? While I haven't done a direct comparison, I'd have to say yes... yes, I think they might just be better!!

I think you might be partly missing the point. 1) If Sony put a modern sensor in one of these things, it would have the same spec as a modern camera because it would BE a modern camera. There are a shit-ton of smartphone sensors that have excellent specs that are in the right size range. 2) When compared to a modern mirrorless camera and a superzoom lens and a gimbal, it would be positively tiny by comparison. Also, camcorders often have completely internal mechanisms (zoom and focus) potentially making them much easier to weather-seal. The benefits in terms of being less fragile in your bag etc might also be welcome. Also, also, for amateur use, a camcorder looks FAAAAAAAAR less threatening in public than a MILC and large lens... let alone when you add the gimbal. Put an A6700 with superzoom on an RS3 or Crane and you may as well have activated a homing beacon for all private security, toxic law enforcement, Karen's, etc to come out of the woodwork and hassle you. If you're holding something the shape of a camcorder, the fact that it's larger might even make you look less of a threat because buying a big camcorder might make you look a bit silly - the opposite look of a professional setup.

The Balanced Optical Steady Shot (BOSS!) is a pretty amazing technology really - it's a pity it never got much attention. I am a pretty big supporter of having stabilisation built-in because it means that motion is smoothed DURING the exposure rather than AFTERWARDS when the frame already has shaky motion blur baked into each frame. My Sony X3000 action camera has BOSS and it is very impressive in practice. I have gotten quite a number of almost gimbal-level stabilisation shots while walking, and I can tell you that I'm not that good at the ninja walk. I haven't compared it directly to the IBIS of the GH5, or even the dual IS of Panasonic IBIS plus lens OIS, but after using the GH5 for years I found myself being impressed with the X3000. Of course, the X3000 also has a very wide angle lens (maybe 15mm or so equivalent?) so that also helps. The other thing that is significant about it is that it, as you say, is basically a gimbal, which keeps the optics and sensor in alignment the whole time, so it eliminates all the corner warping that comes from OIS or IBIS. In terms of the image quality, I would suggest that with a 100Mbps 4K mode that if you add some de-sharpening (blur) and do some creative colour grading, potentially adding in some film emulation elements, that you could get a very nice image indeed. I am definitely a fan of a setup that is flexible and can just grab shots quickly and without fuss. Perhaps the best way to make your edits better through camera choice is to make your camera as fast and flexible as possible, and to get lots of shots and a great variety of shots, as this gives you more options in the edit.

I'd suggest testing this for yourself. Find the situation / situations where your existing setup doesn't have enough DR, and use a camera in stills mode to measure the brightest part of the image and the darkest part. I'd suggest using zebras. For example, if you open up your camera lens to f2.8 and set a 1/10 shutter and ISO 3200 and this sets off the zebras then you just adjust those parameters down until the highlights don't set off the zebras and then you'll have your number of stops. This might sound a bit fiddly, and it is, but it will give you a definite answer. The alternative is spending thousands of dollars based on a review / vlog from some camera bro with mediocre technical knowledge and unknown commercial interests on YT.