kye

There are lots of tiny cameras that can deliver professional or semi-professional images, but they still stop short of being an all-in-one solution that offers acceptable image quality, stabilisation, and audio quality. For this we still need a rig of some kind. This thread is about creating hand-held rigs that deliver: Good to very good image quality Sufficient stabilisation for hand-holding (movement is fine, but it can't be too jittery) Good to very good sound quality that is directional (or at least separates the subject from the background) Fits in a pocket Minimal time to start recording (have little to no setup time) I'm building a rig around my new Sony X3000, but this thread could easily apply to anyone using a GoPro, DJI Osmo Action, or RX0, would also extend to point-and-shoot cameras, and even the smallest mirrorless cameras if the lens they choose is small enough (lots of pancake lenses would be borderline pocketable). These might be an A-cam rig for vloggers, travel film-makers, backpackers, minimalists, or (like me) a B-cam setup for use in conjunction with a larger more complicated rig. We've touched on these topics before, @Don Kotlos shared this great (borderline pocketable) example: I mucked around with my GF3 (which lacks the required audio quality, or image quality): and people are out there taking tiny cameras and making rigs that are 10x the size of the camera: I'm still waiting for items to arrive, but I'm starting with the X3000, Rode Videomicro, an ebay microphone windsock which will help with wind noise but will also be a shock-mount, but have more bits on order, so updates to follow. Who else here is pushing the limits of quality vs size?

I agree - you're absolutely on the money from a journalistic perspective. This approach ranges anywhere from hard-hitting journalism (where you ask tough questions in an attempt to go beyond the PR messaging and pre-prepared sound bytes and expose something new) through to 'covert' tactics like Who Is America (where you pretend to be aligned with the views of the person you are interviewing in order to get them to open up about views they would not normally reveal to a broader audience). Other approaches could be PR videos where you aren't interested in exposing any new information, but simply showcasing the interviewees rhetoric or rationale or world-view. Depending on your personal beliefs this could either be viewed as "making sense" or "propaganda" Another approach could be to move beyond PR and go for education. For example, there is global agreement from people that know what they're talking about that we're in a climate crisis and yet the debate still rages on, which means that the gap isn't knowledge, it's education. These videos might be a balance of rationale / world-view and polite skepticism designed to inform viewers about the topic and respectfully convince them of a particular perspective. I think understanding the position you want to take as a film-maker around these topics is a great place to start, because it radically changes the style of interaction you want to have with the people you are interviewing.

Yeah, fading light is terrible for camera comparisons unless you hit record on both at the same time (and have duplicate lenses of course). Wild guess, but .... Blues Brothers?

Don't feel bad - lots of others around have multiple cameras and could have put their hand up.. This stuff is all on top of our day jobs, families, and other stuff, which should all take priority

I also edit on a MBP and I have also noticed the Colour tab is slower. I suspect it's the extra work required to generate the waveforms. Try turning them off? In a sense there isn't a preferred workflow, it's whatever works for you. Colour grading is fiction. If the goal was to make the image look like reality we'd be using colour checkers and just using technical LUTs and the job would be done. Instead we do film emulations by artificially colouring shadows and highlights, compressing and expanding dynamic range according to our preferences, etc etc. In general though, it's wise to have a basic workflow: Do any exposure or WB corrections (that should have been done in-camera but weren't) Convert from LOG / HLG to the output format (rec709, HLG) Match shots Colour grade however you like Export

I don't shoot these so I can't provide examples, but the suggestion of watching the news seems like a sound one. I think it's really a question about how to learn a particular genre or style, which I have some random thoughts on: Find good examples (which you're looking for) Pull them apart in every way to understand them: What angles do they use? How long are the shots? What are the shots? Talking-head, B-roll, etc What is the sound doing? How much time are people talking and how much is SFX (kind of the B-roll of audio) What is the story like? Does it represent a three-act structure? Some other structure? What similarities are there? How would you shoot such a thing? What does the set look like? What equipment is required? Camera? Audio? Rigging? Lighting? Watch BTS videos to see what people are doing. Find wide shots in the BTS, pause the video, study the frame and see what you can see. By analysing deeply you will uncover the details, by analysing many examples you will notice patterns and themes. Think of it as studying. Learning doesn't stop when you leave school, so studying and the techniques we used in school also shouldn't stop

I love the GH5 because I can shoot handheld and get a handheld but not shaky look, like when people shoot handheld with a cinema camera that smooths movement a bit due to its weight. I worked out early on that I can't stand the aesthetic of the micro-jitters you get when shooting without IBIS or OIS or a rig, so for me it's an aesthetic choice. Considering you're enjoying your 5D+ML setup (and don't use huge rigs) I'd suggest that you don't need the IBIS in the GH5. Of course, having to rig it out completely vs the GH5 which has a screen, nice UI, buttons galore, etc is another matter. From that perspective the P4K might be the best of both worlds - not requiring a huge rig but still having BM IQ. I'm still keen to try to make the P4K match the older BM cameras in post-production. If anyone has the ability to film some useful test footage with the P4K and an older BM camera and can upload it then I'll put in some serious work to see if we can match the old aesthetic from the new camera. My theory is that we should be able to, because going from more resolution to less is possible, and having good bit-depth should be sufficient to grade and match colours etc. Thread is here: I don't have a BM camera of any kind, but if I can work out how to make the P4K have the magic of older BM cameras then I think I will learn a bunch trying to figure it out, and I'll get all kinds of interesting techniques to use with my GH5 footage, so I'm definitely up for it. I feel your pain. I also shoot my family a lot when we travel in privately controlled venues like skating rinks, museums, art galleries, parks, water parks, etc where the normal rules about the right to film in public don't apply. This is why I'm trying to keep my setups to be as minimal as possible. I think it's having a microphone, and having it look big and complicated that are the issues. Just wait for 8K - we'll be writing essays!!

It could be the music, I'm very musically oriented so that's definitely a factor. I guess the other aspect is that your video had contrast between fast action and slow-motion, whereas the NFL one was all slow-motion. I'm not surprised about the degree discrimination - that's a class thing - they want someone who is "one of them" and screw talent or ability. Hiring incompetent people you went to school with is practically the theme song for the worlds elite. On the GH5 I only have HLG on the 25p mode (and the 1080p50 10-bit mode IIRC), so the 4k50 and 1080p120 are Cine-D. I'll have to play around with those profiles to see what latitude they give, and if doing things like reducing contrast will help. More homework!

There isn't a lot of love for the GH5 when compared to the older BM cameras as the 4K modes have that new/modern/digital look about them, which people often counter with vintage lenses, but the 6K modes are a different beast. I wonder how much the 6K 10-bit h265 mode improves it in the eyes of the classic BM camera fans? I'm not suggesting that it makes it Alexa territory, but my impression was that it takes it a good step in that direction?

Finally got around to watching the NFL highlights video and while I appreciate the level of skill of the camera operators, for some reason I enjoyed your reel better. I have no idea why, but just thought I'd share my impressions. You inspired me with the slow-motion shots and I shot my last couple of games in 4K50 8-bit as well as a bunch of random shots in 1080p50 10-bit and 1080p100. The Australian sun has been out in full force the last few weeks (despite it being only weeks from winter here) and those games were around midday so the light was harsh, so I'm curious about if the 10-bit will give me extra latitude in post to really push and pull the grade around. If the new Speed Warp slow-motion feature works sufficiently well I might be able to get away with 1080p50 10-bit and slowing it down to 25% so that it's simulated 100p where every second frame is AI generated. I modified my new monopod and my cheap and cheerful Sun 70-210/3.8 zoom arrived, so in combination with my new hat-compatible microphone setup I'll have an almost entirely new shooting setup this weekend. I've also been editing the footage from the Bull Ride event and discovering that I don't know what I'm doing when editing epic-action-with-slow-motion stuff, but I'm learning. Fun stuff!

of course! *facepalm* What an amusing series of events it would be if Panasonic were the ones to release the ILC XC-15 style camera that so many were interested in! However it goes, I expect that it will be a solid product that will be put to work immediately by many working pros.

I'm re-evaluating what my priorities are. The 6K 10-bit h265 200Mbps mode is basically unusable without proxies, but the 4K 10-bit h264 150Mbps mode is quite useable, so I'm wondering if the extra IQ benefits are worth it for what I'm trying to do. Yes, there is sharpening, but I normally output in 1080, and even if I uploaded in 4K I could just put a DLPF across it. I'm tempted to do an A/B between modes, then put them both through their paces with how I edit and see how hard it is to match the h264 image to the h265 and how much I care about the differences.

Yes, his post-processing is pretty powerful. He also seemed to know a lot about lighting and what conditions he wants, which is a good start. Lots of those images would be so much less without the dramatic weather to go along with them. I would imagine that a big component of the popularity of his images is the interaction between animal and environment and especially powering on through adversity, as that's something that most people can identify with on a personal level I think! ???

Unless it is the GH6 and somehow they're using the word 'cinema' in the marketing. I guess with people complaining that the P4K has the same limitations every other cinema camera has people simply don't understand it anymore so maybe it's fair game?

Interesting. Do we think it's a FF EVA equivalent, higher price/performance, or lower in the range? I'd imagine that it would make sense in a lineup that also contains the GH6.

Apologies, I was distracted by the non-sensical nature of the conversation to get every word right

From BM (link)

I'm talking about this: See how the gimbal shot bobs up and down? A slider (or dolly) won't let the camera move up/down or perpendicular to the track.

But it requires ridiculous amounts of training to get good results. Gimbals smooth where the camera points, but not if the camera wobbles when it moves. Stick with the tripod on wheels approach if you want a flawless result I think.

Great video, and some useful ideas in there I think. It reminds me of street photography where you're never sure what's going to happen, but it's about reading peoples behaviour, anticipating in the moment, and preparing technically with things like pre-focusing and manual settings, but also finding an interesting spot and studying the backdrop so you know where the compositions are and when someone crosses into the scene monitoring when the composition is good and when the gesture is good and hoping like hell they happen to align. I could paraphrase his ideas by saying it's preparation through understanding the unknown (behaviour, weather, etc) as much as possible, and persistence by keeping at it, and keeping on pushing harder for better and better results. Lots of us are probably doing this. I'm doing it for my travel videos and also my kids sports games. I'm not great, but I keep at it and I learn and adapt and push forwards

Aren't we simultaneously having two conversations? The P4K is way too sharp!!! 4K and modern cameras aren't cinematic, the Alexa / older BM cameras are all lower res and have magic. The P4K is way too soft!!!! BRAW is clearly inferior because it smooths fine detail. Not to mention conversations in other threads that also include: Who needs 4K - 1080 is fine and you can't tell the difference and ...... blah blah blah 8K!!!!!! OMFG!!!!! ??

You'd be able to look down at all the YouTubers who only shoot on their REDs and think "one day they'll get a proper camera" ???

There's more to it than this. Sensors vary significantly in design and how much surface area of the sensor actually receives light. For example: Not saying your explanation is wrong, just that it's oversimplified. Also, remember that 4K downscaled to 1080 is 1080 4:4:4 and the downscaling process smooths some of the ISO noise, and 1080 sensor is 4:2:2 without any noise smoothing. Everything is a tradeoff. The best way to actually work out what is what is to do a real-world test and go from there.

Me too! So much knowledge packed into such a short amount of time, they're deceptively simple too.

Jeez, you guys are harsh.... he does a couple of side things the wrong way and so you throw away what was (for me) the point of the whole video - the layer of skin tones put back over the LUT to get a believable result even if you have a strong grade. That's why I posted it. I agree that not converting to rec709 properly wasn't the right way to start, I agree that smoothing then blurring the skin wasn't a nice thing to do either, but if you're going to discount someone because they did that then go watch Juan Melaras videos on repeat because no other youtuber meets your standards. I've watched hundreds and hundreds of grading videos and I'm pretty sure I've seen every YT colourist do either one or both of those things on their channels before!! ???