kye

Also remember that you're comparing footage from those cameras through the compression of YT or Vimeo, unless you download the 4.6Gb file of the video @HockeyFan12 shared above.

This may or may not be relevant depending on how your project will be distributed and broadcast.

5 hours ago, User said:

Social justice warriors and half baked journalists love this approach... not that IronFilm is either as far as I know.
But just for fun, I'm reminded of an insightful and often hilarious interview with Jordan Peterson by Kathy Newman that makes light of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54

It's just one of the cornucopia of ways to avoid a real debate or discussion.  Unfortunately, most people either don't know enough about how to debate properly or don't care enough about doing it properly, so most conversations are just riddled with dirty tactics and are almost completely devoid of genuine logical arguments.

Here's an interesting list that contains 71 intellectually dishonest tactics: https://johntreed.com/blogs/john-t-reed-s-news-blog/60887299-intellectually-honest-and-intellectually-dishonest-debate-tactics
But there are simpler tactics that are also very common.  A great one is shifting the burden of proof.  My kids do this all the time and its difficult not to fall for it.  They are rude and sarcastic, you call them out about being rude, they deny being rude and instead of justifying that statement they ask "how is that rude" and try to set the context that if you can't prove it then they weren't being rude.  Of course, if you fall for the trap and try to provide reasons they just disagree without any argument or proof, and of course they're never going to admit it, so you're flogging a dead horse.  I don't think I saw it in the list of 71 tactics in that article.

Amusingly, the author of the above says there are only two intellectually honest tactics:

Quote

1. pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s facts
2. pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s logic

Why not just put the ef to Fuji adapter on the Fuji, and the ef to MFT adapter on the bmpcc4k, then just treat them like they're ef mount cameras?

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I'm referring to armed resistance. 

Maybe you missed the other 90% of my posts where I was also talking about armed resistance?

I mean, you can avoid a real conversation by quoting a small fraction of what I said and then reply only to that if you'd like, but don't think I, or anyone else, wouldn't notice

7 hours ago, majoraxis said:

1.  I want better quality 4K!
vs
2.  I want 8k any way you can give it to me!

In a sense I think this is a mostly useless conversation.

The value in the conversation is people learning about how other people shoot and the technical aspects of the situation, but I doubt that anything we say here will influence what we're actually given.  In a sense, there are only two markets.  

There is the cinema market who want things like high bitrate codecs / prores capture / RAW, and consumers who want resolution and manageable file sizes.  As more and more people are making video professionally and the tech advances there are a few manufacturers who concentrate on providing higher quality capture to non-cinema market segments.  Mostly this is Panasonic with the GH line, BlackMagic with the Pocket 4k, and now Atomos as a bolt-on solution.

Even if you want higher quality 4K, and for some reason you're not willing to get it via the Pocket 4K or external recording, 8K consumer codecs are actually a good way to get it.

8K is good because:

• Compressed 4K is lower quality than compressed 8K given the same bitrate (I have done tests and encoding the same material at the same bitrate and 1080 > 720 > SD)
• 4K displays are true 4K but 4K cameras are only true 1080 after debayering..  to get true 4K after debayering requires an 8K sensor
• Even if the bitrate for your 8K camera is low, for scenes where things don't move much (eg, people sitting and talking) the IQ will be quite good
• Even if we're talking 8K on a small sensor, if you use enough light then at base ISO your 8K image will be very nice.  This might mean spending more on lighting, but it's not that great an investment and having more lighting is probably a useful thing to have anyway.  If you're shooting in natural light then it'll be free.  We use ND filters all the time because we have too much light!
• Downscaling 8K to 4K is a great noise-reduction technique and will be completely free, and won't have any of the strange effects of "smart" NR algorithms

8K will mean you need a more powerful computer, but if you're shooting 4K at higher bitrates and/or doing much grading in post you already need to use proxies to edit and grade anyway, so it might take a bit longer to render proxies and export but that's perhaps the only price you'll pay.

8 hours ago, mercer said:

Yeah, this is honestly one of my problems with Micro 4/3... it’s neither here nor there if you need/want to use vintage or fast lenses. 

I'm learning that MFT is actually both here and there..  Getting fast wide lenses without paying a fortune seems to be really difficult, but on the other hand the longer lenses are cheap, fast and plentiful.

One thing I didn't realise is that longer lenses have a much shallower DoF than wider lenses, even at the same aperture.  This means that if I want to match longer lenses to shorter ones, then a 50mm f2 lens can easily match the same DoF and with a SB be an 70mm or without a 100mm.  

I also did a quick test and found that my 17.5mm f0.95 needed 1/50 but my 58mm f2.8 on a 0.7x SB only needed 1/200 for the same scene.  I'm not sure if this extra light gathering is normal of if I stuffed something up, so I'd be keen to hear from other people on this..   

It's also pretty easy to get seriously long focal lengths if you're into wildlife or sports photography.

The other major advantage of adapting is that you can pick whatever lens from whatever system, so in a sense all the battles between the manufacturers about pushing under-featured bodies to people already invested in your lens system is completely irrelevant.  Yeah, if you spend a couple of hundred on a SB then you're kind of invested, but if you're looking at adapting lenses at the longer end then you can just buy a $15 adapter for each lens and forget about which system they come from.

8 hours ago, mercer said:

The Soviets weren’t known for their quality control

I was looking at a page the other day talking about the Helios 58mm lenses, and was saying that the model number is in the format of Helios 44-X where X is the resolution of the lens.  I assume they made them and then graded them before marking them, but anyway, 7 is meant to be the highest resolution.  They then had a little table of some of the different models that they'd tested with things like light transmission and resolution.  The Helios 44-7 scored lower on the resolution test than the lower graded models.  I found that quite amusing

All this talk of vintage lenses is dangerous for me...  I already bought a Pentax Super Takumar 55mm F1.8 M42 that I didn't need but was really curious about!  Every time I look there are interesting lenses that tempt me ???

1 hour ago, loloniek said:

I just wanted to share with you my latest music video shot on Ursa and Pocket 4k + Zeiss Cp3 + Black ProMist (how Can i embed a video here : ) ? )

https://vimeo.com/309293561

Nice work.  I really liked the atmosphere and colours, the Tiffen matched really nicely with the smoke too.  The closing shot from inside the control room was a very nice touch too!

5 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

35% of the total electorate voted to leave of the 72% that voted, so its the 28% that didn't actually go and vote that have got what they deserved.

I'm not actually sure what Britain or being British actually even means anymore let alone what the difference between the two may or may not be.

The only thing that it seems unites everyone is the feeking of division.

Pretty ironic really.

I think it's getting more and more difficult these days to get clarity on what people deserve.  You're right about the people that didn't vote, but for the people that did, the amount of misleading information around topics like this makes it pretty hard to understand what your choices really are, even if you actually care and put in time to understand the issues.

The impact of the media constantly trying to trigger your emotions also doesn't help in keeping perspective.

I remember the IS on my Canon 55-250mm zoom making a noise like a tiny turbine winding up every time you half-pressed the shutter.  I don't know if the internal mics picked it up, but it was quite audible when using the camera, at least in some situations.  It is surprising that the noise in your G80 remains when the IBIS is turned off though.  If it's a software problem, perhaps resetting to factory defaults or updating the firmware might resolve the issue?

1 hour ago, thephoenix said:

thinking of the samyang 14mm 2.8 for canon or the irix 15mm 2.4 , as i have both adapter for canon to fuji and m43. it comes about 290€ here

just wondered if there was a good vintage lens in wide angle

I had a look through a few of the categories on the Pentax vintage lens site (linked in a previous post) and also did a search on eBay and nothing looked suitable.  Vintage lenses seem to be common in 28/35/40/50/80/135mm and everything else is rarer, especially at the wide end.

1 hour ago, User said:

Thank you for that Kai... I know of the situation you describe. I also know that not every refugee is Muslim, but it seems to me that if I were Muslim, I would want to seek asylum in a country that was also Islamic friendly... you know... where my brothers and sisters just 'get' me and my burqa clad wife. Indonesia, Bangladesh, Pakistan easily come to mind as they are not war zones. But somehow everyone seems to want the nations with mini skirts social welfare cheques. How odd.
It would be interesting to me if all Germans suddenly moved to bombed out Syria... I'll bet you that within 10 years Syria would be a model state and Germany would be a shit hole.
The problem is that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, and if you have ever sat at length with those who have Allah in the heart and on the tongue, you'll find that things like science, logic and reason go right out the window. And finally, if 2 million Europeans sought asylum in an Islamic nation, there would be mass killings. But hey, the West has to somehow be the light.

I believe it is more about religious fundamentalism rather than which religion.

The Catholic Church resisted the heliocentric model of the solar system and famously kept Galileo under house arrest for the remainder of his life for supporting it, only formally acquitted by the church in 1992.  Today, despite being perceived as one of the most western and scientific countries in the world, the US has a terrible acceptance of the theory of evolution, and the theory has very significant differences in the level of support based on religious preference (link).

Islam has a long history of contributions to science and mathematics, and the word 'algebra' is even derived from the title of a book by an islamic mathematician (link, link).

If people don't know their history then it's easy to attribute observations to the wrong factors, especially with a media that reaches for the latest and most controversial events it can find / invent.  Level-headed analysis and fact-checking seem to be in short supply these days!

4 hours ago, tomsemiterrific said:

How many times will companies have to split the atom before people are satisfied?

I know..  think about how all the forums are full of angry people demanding 8K cameras!

Once you understand that this progression is mainly driven by the tech companies constantly trying to find ways to make you keep buying things, then the rationale becomes clearer

2 hours ago, thephoenix said:

thanks

i am looking for a wide angle lens that i could use with my fuji xt3 and a bmpcc4k, the goal is to have a lens that would be around 24mm crop factor included.

are there any choices in these length ?

found a mir 12mm but it was made for 16mm and it does not cover m43, also the mount is hardly adaptable.

Probably the best approach is to get a FF or APCS lens and then adapt it to both systems.

• 7artisans 12mm f2.8 seems to be APSC and in EF mount
• Accura 12mm F8

The wide end is where lens choice becomes difficult on cropped sensors.  I ended up solving the wide end of my GH5 setup with the SLR Magic 8mm and the Voigtlander 17.5mm because I can always use the ETC mode to make the 8mm into a ~24mm equivalent FOV, but these are both dedicated M43 lenses because I didn't want to be buying fisheye lenses.

1 minute ago, User said:

This stuff isn't easy. Having passed 10 years in the Islamic world, I certainly understand the benefit of having "processing facilities" in regional safe zones where those who are claiming refugee status can have their backgrounds verified locally by the citizens there. Europe will spend the next 100 years stamping out religious fanatics.
Having been at the receiving end of, and witnessing full scale life threatening assaults against others, ensuing in the aftermath of the 2015 refugee flood into Berlin... I have some complicated feelings on the matter.

I have no problems with assessing people for entry into a country, especially if they are claiming refugee status.  No-one wants to let criminals into their country, regardless of what motivates them to break the law.  

Unfortunately, at least here in Australia, these facilities are now being used as a deterrent to stop people from trying to seek asylum, where people are held indefinitely, refused basic medical care, and are never evaluated for entry into the country.  We also distinguish people arriving by boat vs by plane.  Boat people (whom Australians are terrified of) are taken to these offshore centres, but those who arrive by plane aren't.  

Our stance on boat people is so strong that we even got the US to take them from us...

Quote

Australia’s policy of offshore processing in Papua New Guinea and Nauru, which denies access to asylum in Australia for refugees arriving by sea without a valid visa, has caused extensive, avoidable suffering for far too long.

Four years on, more than 2,000 people are still languishing in unacceptable circumstances. Families have been separated and many have suffered physical and psychological harm.

In light of this dire humanitarian situation, last November UNHCR exceptionally agreed to help with the relocation of refugees to the United States following a bilateral agreement between Australia and the US. We agreed to do so on the clear understanding that vulnerable refugees with close family ties in Australia would ultimately be allowed to settle there.

UNHCR has recently been informed by Australia that it refuses to accept even these refugees, and that they, along with the others on Nauru and Papua New Guinea, have been informed that their only option is to remain where they are or to be transferred to Cambodia or to the United States.

That's from the UN (link).

It is the modern equivalent of putting heads on spikes at the border.

41 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Nope. And I've been looking out for secondhand bargains for years. 

Interesting.  Maybe they just haven't sold enough of them to end up in the hands of people who don't value them and use them?  They're a pretty niche item really, and they don't have the marketing of something like RED where every YouTuber secretly wants to vlog with one.

38 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

As simply just "a few" (hundreds? Thousands?) resisting against some kind of government injustice could be enough for those in power to realise "oh hang on, maybe we should stop being bullies like this and start to behave??"

I can understand how it's nice to think such things, but those numbers are way too low.

Have a look at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_protests_in_the_United_States_by_size

The largest item on the list is the 2017 Womens march with an estimated 3.3-4.6 million people.  For context, that's most of the entire population of NZ.  Was the march a success?  Probably, but it didn't turn the political landscape upside-down or anything.

In terms of how many people with guns it would take for the politicians to wake-up and take notice, who knows, but the first tactic would be to completely discredit and de-humanise them with a mass media campaign and then use overwhelming force.  Each end of the political spectrum has managed to discredit and partially de-humanise those at the other extreme, despite being in the same country.  Most western countries have de-humanised refugees enough to justify inhuman treatment and even offshore "processing facilities" where human rights seem to be mostly absent.  Once the general populace thought they were anti-democratic anti-western extremists from the opposite side of the political spectrum to themselves, the government would treat them like any other armed group who explicitly refused to be controlled.  

Yes, there would be fallout, but not because having guns helped, there would be fallout because so many people died and a minority of people would be interested in why they did so, and the change would take place through the normal systems of democracy that are currently in place, not because the people with the guns ousted those in power.

35 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Get the mic off the camera! Which is where it should be, not on the camera itself

You're assuming that he sound quality gained would be more valuable than the compromises it would require, like size, ease of use, weight, attention from others, etc.

On commercial sets these things aren't normally considerations, but are for others.

@bluefonia said "These days I make films for my own pleasure - no dialogues, cleansounds only - and want to keep equipment at a minimum" so adding a boom doesn't seem to be sensible.

I investigated buying a stereo mic, or making some kind of mid-side setup, but in testing the internal mics in my cameras I found them to be fine for stereo recording, so I just use a Rode shotgun mic and if I want ambience I record using the internal mics on the camera.

If you buy a Rode Video Micro (or cheap equivalent) then you'll be reduced to mono sound.  I have thought previously that you could combine a stereo splitter adapter and plug in two of these mics and angle them in an X-Y configuration to get a stereo signal, like this:

There seems to be a very strange understanding of military tactics and weaponry going on here.

The scenario that some people seem to be suggesting is that this happens:

1. the people learn that their government can't be trusted for some reason and decide to replace them using force
2. they then stage some kind of guerrilla war against the government forces
3. they win this war because they have a very large number of very low powered weapons

If this scenario is really a battle for the entire country, and neither side would hold back.  So it wouldn't matter how many AR-15s or even M60s you have, when the army deploys APCs, tanks, and armour-plated surface-to-surface missiles on the ground, deploys drones, helicopter gunships, and fighter planes with air-to-ground laser-guided missiles, and the navy parks a battleship in the middle of every major port city and aircraft carriers out to sea far enough to get clear airspace, the armed population will discover that even if they had 800 trillion zillion quadrillion guns that can't shoot through armour they still wouldn't be much help.

Remember that when the entire population is behind a movement then it wins against the government without needing weapons.  It's only when it's not a majority of the people that weapons might play a part in something.

Therefore it would be more like:

1. some people  learn that their government can't be trusted for some reason and decide to replace them using force, and they then stage some kind of guerrilla war against the government forces
2. government forces would fall back to secure facilities and would establish supply lines between facilities and intelligence services would be monitoring communications working out who the leaders were and how things are being organised, potentially shutting down key ISPs etc
3. using superior armour, tactics, military intelligence, and weapons, the government would gradually re-take pockets of resistance

The scenario being described isn't like two armies fighting, it's like a team of navy seals in full body-armour with night-vision attacking a tribe of jungle warriors armed with spears.

Of course, if it was a large enough group then the government would realise that there's votes in it and so the political landscape would change radically.  People don't like to see video of soldiers shooting at their own people, although the US has gotten pretty used to government forces using unnecessary force on its own citizens, the fact nothing has happened in response to that might be a clue about how power really works.  So, it would change things significantly, but the fact that the people had guns doesn't tip the balance in any significant way.

17 hours ago, thephoenix said:

problem if you get a "big" bag that goes in cabin is the weight. sometimes you have to cross fingers for your bag not to be weighted

i have lowepro bag and the last one i bought was an amazon bag, i was surprised by the quality of it, for the price it was a very good deal, i still use it

Cabin bag weight is a worry for me as I never want to be forced to check any equipment.  I've done a lot of reading on the subject and there are a few general approaches, but the one I like is that if it becomes a problem then move away from the people weighing the bags and then put the heavy items in your pockets to get the bag under the weight limit.  They don't weigh people and so this is a good strategy if they don't know you've done it.  Photographers often talk about having a photographer / hunting vest that has lots of huge pockets in their bag just in case and this is what I've done.  I suspect that if you're an asshole and start filling your pockets right in front of them then you may not get away with it, so that's why I suggest moving away from them.

I buy whatever is cheapest and just make sure it's fully backed up.  Also, keep your backup drive disconnected from your computer in case you get one of those viruses that lock up your data.  You should also keep your backup in a different location to keep it safe from fire or theft.

In having said that though, what was cheapest tends to remain cheapest and so as I've needed more space I've bought similar drives in anticipation of creating a RAID at some point in the future.

7 hours ago, heart0less said:

It's nice to see how pro DPs tackle this issue.

Interesting video, not only for that section but also for more useful tips, like the creative team getting to know the style of the film through the DP shooting his own feet walking through a field, and using doubles for follow-shots, even before the main actors are on-set.  

This might be of interest to you @mercer for improvisational short films?

If you want to avoid recording the noise then maybe the solution is an external microphone.  

A previous conversation about how to use an external mic while keeping the setup very compact yielded these insights...

Using a Rode Video Micro you can either mount it above the camera in the traditional way like this:

Or on a flash bracket by the side of the camera:

or @Don Kotlos took it one step further and used velcro to attach it to the body of the camera itself:

5 hours ago, thephoenix said:

i can get some Pentacon Prakticar lenses, are they any good ?

also can get a mir 1b 37mm 2.8 is it worth it too ?

I don't know those lenses, but I'd suggest searching YouTube and Vimeo for example video footage and reviews - there are many people who are buying vintage lenses these days so there's lots of information around.

Also, google will turn up lots of good information, and remember that photographers often post images from these old lenses and so these photos give a way to see how sharp the resolution of the lens is (4K video is a series of highly highly compressed 8MP images, but 24MP high quality still images are common).  

I've recently found sites like https://www.pentaxforums.com/userreviews/ very useful as they aggregate reviews, give ratings, and also give price history.

The GH5 is good but not great in low-light, therefore you want to use the fastest lenses you can get.  This will also mean that your depth of field will be relatively shallow - unfortunately there is no way around this with this camera.

Your 12-60 f2.8 isn't a very fast lens.  I would suggest either getting fast MFT lenses like the Voigtlander F0.95 series primes, or getting a speed booster and using something like the 18-35 f1.8.  These will require manually focusing.

I recently filmed a lot with my GH5 at night using only the ambient available lights and I found that I really needed to use my Voitlander 17.5mm f0.95 with the aperture fully open at 0.95.

The alternative is to rent another camera setup that will have better low-light performance.  Perhaps something like the A7SII or A7III with a 24-70 F2.8 lens.  This setup would enable you to get noise-free shots with a deeper depth of field than the GH5/fast-lens combination.

I think I've worked out how we stay relatively sane and civil on these forums when talking about cameras....

We let it all out in threads like this! I mean, seriously, read this thread from the beginning in one go! ???