KnightsFan

Even with extremely good technology, there is still an artistry and subjectivity in image creation. No cinema camera aims for "color accuracy above all else." Arri wants their images to look Cinematic--and at this point in time, many cinematographers' taste has been developed specifically by Arri's colors. Sony might have a choice between spending millions on user testing, expert opinions, and fine tuning, OR they could save all that money and probably not take much of a sales hit. Fwiw, I have never liked Sony cameras in blind tests, however, I love Panasonic's S1 and S5 even compared to Arri. So I actually don't even believe that "expensive" cameras always look better. I also don't believe Sony is incapable of making more or less identical colors to the S5. Maybe they decided keeping the same pipeline is a better business investment, or their product managers prefer the Sony look out of pride, or different taste--or maybe I'm simply not their target audience.

I'll put my conspiracy hat on for a moment. Maybe BM knows about imminent competition, and want to get a few more sales out before that happens?

I saw that! What a deal--priced under the C400 even. I wouldn't be surprised if the kits come down in price to match.

Well there are certainly paths to limit AI's improvement, such as nuclear war or catastrophic asteroid impact. And eventually we will run out of resources, but a lot of poor people will die of hunger before resource limits affect AI. I don't even think legal limits will have any long term affect either. Sure if the US bans AI development and stops Google, OpenAI, etc, there will be setbacks. But other companies in other countries will step up. If you look at all of human history, technology has always improved, and always improved at an increasing rate. I don't think there is much reason to believe that the trend will suddenly stop.

So are you saying that AI generated video will never become indistinguishable from real video? Its still obvious in most cases right now, my point as that it will become better. CGI is difficult to keep improving because it's largely a manual process. Some CG artists are very good, but many are not. It took decades for us to go from moving a cube across a screen to the very best CGI today, which takes enormous effort from large teams of extremely experienced and skilled people. AI generated video has gone from nothing to this ad in what, two years? And how many people were involved? And the same AI model will continue improving, and never retire. Even without improvements to the methods of training or reinforcement learning, imagine the output when it has 10x or 100x the training data.

*yet It's hard for me to believe that 20 years from now, AI will be unable to produce videos of any type that are indistinguishable from videos shot with cameras. It's an interesting discussion how much diverse training needs to be given to a model before its output is presumed original. I mean, we're all trained on images from other artists, and at the moment the primary difference is that our brains are way less adept at permanently storing precise information. And at this point, these models have ingested more videos than any of us have seen, so the inspiration is even more spread out than a human's. It's probably not that far off before some of these big companies start collecting training data straight from the real world, that combines binocular vision, audio, and other sensors into a combined stream, like our own.

1) With the caveat that I don't use AF, the Panasonic S5 is a wildly good value at $800 used (what I paid for mine). Imo, the improvement in noise and dynamic range over the GH5 is worth it, but if you're always in well-lit areas maybe you won't notice much benefit. If you aren't tied to existing lenses, camcorders can be more convenient than hybrids. I'm not familiar with available models since I don't shoot events, but I'd research camcorders for event videography with no photos. 2) C400 or FX6. The C300 Mk III is also fine--I choose full frame because of the lenses I own. It also depends on how much weight matters, as the FX6 is extremely light. If I need photos as well, then add a photo body in addition, and honestly everything is so good these days that I'd take anything modern. 3) Assuming 1-3 person camera crew, it depends on the script. My general pick right now for myself is a C500 Mk II (cheaper than a C400). I used to have Z Cam, which has unbeatable wireless monitoring and control, but I don't like the lack of color management support in Resolve. I would pick a Z Cam F6 if I need to fit the camera into tight spaces. If it's a lot of fast action like a car chase, a Komodo's global shutter would be great. The Ronin 4D is also very interesting for extensive handheld--never used one myself, though. If I can step up in budget, I'd love to try the Blackmagic 12k LF.

Agreed, that's why I don't think they'll update the S1H unless they have a new sensor. But it's always going to be the case that more specialized models will command a much higher price and have far fewer sales.

The obvious one is support for their 32 bit XLR module. But I agree that more features cost money, and people who expect a revolutionary step forward for $3k are going to be disappointed. I tend to think that the S1H successor will have a different sensor with faster readout and higher frame rates. Either that, or they will need to add non-image features like NDs, SDI, builtin XLR--and while entirely possible, I don't think Panasonic will move in that direction again.

I definitely agree that more SDR luts would be great. It would be nice if cameras could share luts with the same ease as using a new snapchat filter. Or if you could connect your camera to an ipad wirelessly and build the lut in real time using color correction software. There are so many UI/UX barriers to cameras still. However, for narrative projects, I would never shoot anything other than a standard log profile anymore. I shoot in log on large projects because it allows a color managed workflow. If I shoot a scene one day, and then have pickups a month later, with slightly different lighting because it's cloudier--or with a different camera system altogether--log is very useful. Partly because of added dynamic range, but, more importantly, the shots are standardized to reduce the guesswork for adequately matching. I also shoot a kelvin white balance rather than balancing to a card for the same reason. Standardization is key.

Google's version looks good, too. I do think we're still a couple years off from good, reliable video generators for serious videos. 2025 will see a flood of "content creators" using it for sure, but gluing together multiple layers of neural nets and traditional programming into a cohesive unit will take some time. Image generators typically work on multiple abstraction layers, so the model has a concept of what a "cat" looks like inside a prompt "cat holding a beer." To solve physics and object permanence, I believe that video will need to have a concept of 3D space and objects in that space, and specific characters are conceptualized as a character that can be reused, etc. So I think significantly more work will need to be done on each layer of the network to get beyond making portraits with minor movement. Then of course going off my earlier comment, I think that a significant constraint for something like Sora is that it's designed to be used by absolute amateurs. Professional software, like an integration into Adobe CC or DaVinci Resolve, can expose more controls or even basic scripting (e.g. in Fusion) and expect users to reference a manual to learn it all. The user base for that is so much smaller, it will take more time to get there.

Which is why I mentioned Z6 III. For the R5, if you're comparing used prices, then I'll revise to "I won't complain about Panasonic cameras until Sony, Nikon, and Canon all have real next-gen FF sensors in $900 used bodies" The Nikon Z6 came out in 2018, and the S1 in 2019. Z6 III released this year, so if a Panasonic camera comes out with a similar sensor, then next year will have the same latency in terms of time-to-new-sensor.

I don't think Panasonic will release another ~24MP FF flagship until they have a new sensor, which they probably do not have access to for a price that makes sense at this time. This "release" is simply continuing an existing product under new regulations. Lots of companies are in the same spot. Nikon did something sort of unique with partial stacking in the Z6III, but there really haven't been any new, affordable FF sensors recently. Obviously, for people who need the better autofocus and dislike the S5II size/weight/whatever, it kinda sucks not to have a slight update to the S1, but that's got to be a tiny, tiny slice of users. Personally, I won't complain about Panasonic cameras until Sony, Nikon, and Canon all have real next-gen FF sensors in $2500 bodies. Lenses, on the other hand... I wish L mount was a little more expansive and creative! But it's okay, I'm still 100% EF mount, and my adapter works fine.

The A7c II is one of the few cameras that I would rather have than the S5 I bought, but at >2x the price (used vs. used), it wasn't worth it. Even A7c used prices are a few hundred more than what I paid for an S5! And I'm way happier with S5 video than A7c.

It will be especially interesting if the "competitor" software rely on the same underlying model, or whether anyone will make their own. These models often work in layers, where lower abstraction levels are still using just a few models that may or may not be updated or improved upon. My prediction is we end up with complex AI tools that end up like this classic xkcd, where the critical pillar will be a single image recognition model that a couple grad students trained in 2008 with 1,000 images they took around campus. https://xkcd.com/2347/

Really impressive. I think what's fascinating right now is the nice user-friendly buttons and sliders like "remix strength" that they have. Obviously OpenAI has designed this to be usable to the general public with very broad controls. I haven't looked into any API for Sora, but other platforms might be able to expose more technical or complex controls for more advanced users. Same applies for the filters they have added. If I recall, ChatGPT refuses to talk about certain subjects, whereas the API has no such limitation.

Interested in seeing the comparisons! There's definitely certain styles that benefit from smaller sensors. Digital images have been around long enough that we might also be approaching a time when digital noise is considered nostalgic in the way that VHS effects, film grain, or even interlacing can communicate timeliness rather than ugliness. Artistically, clean or "filmic" images don't even have to be the goal, and smaller sensors and lenses can certainly evoke specific feelings that larger formats don't. One reason I like full frame is that I do not want the character of a wide-open lens! My most common lens choice is in the 28-35mm range at f5.6 or f8. I like landscapes and action scenes, more than faces, so I often want even sharpness and very little out of focus. That's not to say I don't appreciate other styles.

Perfect for me if it had an EVF! I don't care how bright the screen is, it's going to be rough without an EVF in the desert at midday. I saw on the rumor sites that 7artisans is making an 18mm pancake. Sticking that on an S9 would make an excellent compact setup for my backpacking trips. Maybe their next one will have an EVF.

Well I'm not sure personal attacks on each other's critical thinking skills are constructive. High inflation is a difficult obstacle for an incumbent to overcome. As much as I dislike Trump, it's important to recognize that a large contribution to his loss in 2020 was economic troubles stemming from Covid. I think Biden's administration did fairly well economically, given it was Covid recovery time. Most of the world had higher inflation than the US did. But most voters don't look too closely. Which is very unfortunate, because the Republican/Trump economic agenda is, long term, quite detrimental and also has a considerable amount of doublespeak (to use the 1984 term). We had high inflation, but it's important to note that corporate and ultra wealthy profits were record-high. The higher prices that we consumers paid went straight to rich people and corporations. That's where we see doublespeak: a lot of Republicans say "Make America Great Again" referring to a golden age in the 1960-1980's. The highest marginal tax rate in the 1960's was 91%! It gradually fell to just 50% by 1986, at which point it was slashed in half, ushering in the extreme debt, corporate expansion, and wealth disparity that we still suffer from today, aka Reaganomics. I agree: Make America Great Again--by taxing the wealthy the way we used to, and using that to invest in roads, science, and education, to fuel the technological leadership that we had in the 60's-80's. (Of course, it should not be inferred that I support to the social and racial policies of the 60's! I fully understand the racial undertones of MAGA as a slogan, but I do want to point out their modern economic policies are antithetical to the era that they romanticize) Getting to Trump, there are a couple huge points unrelated to social politics or personality that are worrying 1. Lowering tax rates on wealthy and corporations. All historical trends show that doing so leads to higher wealth disparity, higher deficit, and fewer jobs. In Obama's 8 years, the national deficit fell from $1.42T to $0.44T. The high initial deficit was an increase in spending in response to the financial meltdown in 2008 (that was caused by deregulation). In Trump's first term, the deficit rose again up to $0.98T, even before Covid hit. Between 2009 and 2020, we had the longest period of uninterrupted economic growth in US history. The difference was that Obama grew the economy while reducing deficit while recovering from the 2nd worst economic disaster in US history, whereas Trump inherited 8 years of growth and doubled the deficit. Turns out, giving a ton of money to rich people has the effect of making them richer, nothing else--sometimes it really is that simple. 2. Placing billionaires and CEOs in key government positions, almost always ones who donated significantly to his campaign. This is an obvious conflict of interest considering they are the ones profiting off of high prices. 3. Nominating people with no experience for high positions. If you get your dream job and are hired directing the next Marvel movie. Do you hire a successful business owner, or an academy award winning cinematographer to be DoP? Maybe you think the academy favors certain movies more, and that there is politics involved in picking winners--I don't disagree. I can also guarantee you that every Oscar winner is a helluva lot better than someone who's never picked up a camera before. 4. Ignoring/denying climate change, and pursuing short term profits by consuming natural resources, rather than lead on sustainable energy sources. Ignoring climate change, energy based on carbon extracted from the ground will run out someday. We need to have a replacement before it runs out, rather than after. If we invested in R&D like we did in the 60's (again, the GOP Golden Age) we would be further along.

The NX1 is a very special camera. By far my favorite photo camera I ever used, the only downside was that there was no active EF adapter. If it had a 10 bit log profile for video, I would still be using it today! Video tech moved on, but the photos it produced could not have been better, imo. The ergonomics and menu were simply perfect as well.

I'm not sure I fully understand the tool. It doesn't appear to show over exposure latitude, only underexposure (pushed up in post)? Couldn't there be a different allocation of stops above/below middle grey between different cameras?

As much as I care about e-waste and longevity (which are VERY important to me), the deal breaker on non-replaceable batteries is that if it dies on set, you have to wait to charge it. There's no way I rely on internal battery systems, even if the company has replacement programs. I'll go one step further, and say that it's also frustrating that there are competing standards for batteries. One device uses AA, another AAA, every camera is different. I want to just buy one type of rechargeable battery, one set of chargers, and power everything.

I bought the same kit earlier this year, and I think I paid about $60. Apart from replaceable batteries (I absolutely refuse internal batteries on any equipment), the advantage over 2.4Ghz sets is that it has quite low latency. I can use them to have "wireless" headphones for real time monitoring.

It looks promising! Everything looks sensibly laid out, more or less. I'd be extremely surprised if Fuji doesn't intend to follow up with a S35 version if this sells well. On a side note, the number of people on various sites who said "I would buy x camera if they put it in a cinema body!" and now turn around and say "it's just a lazily rehoused x camera" is truly mind boggling.

I understand the joke you were making about the dumb image being as useful as the original video, and I, as someone who saw the original title and video, and have some familiarity with the video author, chuckled at the picture. All I'm saying is that I also understand SRV's annoyance that to a random passerby who doesn't read the whole thread, his name is on a post that is no longer the content he posted. Thats regardless of who SRV is as a person (who i havent interacted with before), or the original post itself (which I thought was pointless, and orignally ignored). that's why I said it wasn't life or death as an ironic understatement. I'm not upset in any way. I thought andrgl's post was a bit harsh, so I spoke up. if I came across as upset or in support of rumor mill youtube videos, that was a miscommunication on my part.