KnightsFan

That is exciting! 32 bit in camera will be huge for solo shooters.

My magic lantern work was on amazon prime. It has also been shown in local theaters, and films that I shot on magic lantern won awards both in the US and abroad. None of it was high profile or anything like that, but I think my workflow was fine. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. You can like what you like. However, I would not consider my opinion to be uninformed.

I think Gerald does a good job. There isn't enough time for someone to both test every camera, and test any one camera thoroughly. If I'm thinking about buying or renting a piece of gear, I try to see reviews from both people who use that gear a lot, and from people who have used a lot of gear. It's impossible for that to be the same person. For example, I've there are people who have never touched an expensive lens in their life heaping praise on the flood of budget cine-style lenses (Laowa, DZOFilm, Meike, SLR Magic, etc). And they might be a legit artist who makes really good videos with those lenses. However, it's not that useful for a purchasing decision for someone to say Meike lenses are good, when what I really want to know is how it compares to the competition. I've seen people say how great the optics are on the only lens they own, while taking great images of great looking scenes, but I see other tests showing all kinds of problems compared to other lenses for the price. And then, by necessity, the person who has made the comparisons between 50 lenses spent all their time comparing lenses and not making art. So it takes both kinds of people to get a complete picture of anything. I would never take art advice from Gerald, but his reviews are great for that comparison overview. As long as you keep in mind what info you can and can't get from what he says.

^ I do the same thing. We write the filename in the script notes so we know what it contains. And when I copy footage off cards, I rename all the files so that corresponding files always have the same name.

People use iphones and super 8 film cameras and get their work in festivals. Doesn't mean I'd recommend those as general purpose cameras either. And I'm also not saying that anyone using ML should switch anything up. I've personally not found the image to be particularly better than any modern cameras, and the on-set workflow in particular is pretty bad on sets with any size crew (the original post about ML was comparing it to Alexa's on professional shoots). Now certainly back in 2015, ML was amazing. At that time, I shot a bit with early BM cameras like the OG pocket, the 2.5k and later the Ursa 4k. And I was on shoots with Red Ones and Epics. So ML was truly an outlier as a large sensor, affordable camera with quality recording. Btw I've seen lots of the images you've posted using ML @mercer and I love them.

Have you used 5D3 ML? I disagree completely. I find the color to be average, the noise and particularly the chroma noise is particularly ugly, and the dynamic range is really bad. Complete opposite of the Alexa classic. The one thing it has is no compression artifacts, which at the time was unique in the consumer space with a large sensor.

I was thinking that over when I saw the S9. For me it's a toss up. I wouldn't use either one as a primary video camera, but fwiw I vastly prefer my travel/photo camera to have 10 bit compressed vs full raw, IBIS is quite useful for photography, and the rotating screen is great when you need it. On the other hand, I don't know if I could live without an EVF, and the Sigma at least has one as an accessory. And then there's the S5, which I got used at a fraction of the price of either one of them, and does basically everything I want but in a slightly larger package. It will certainly be a new sensor generation before I change anything.

Trends come and go. Vista vision film peaked and declined before digital was invented, and now as a size format it's returning. Anamorphic comes and goes and comes back. It's possible that 10 years from now we'll have another super 16 craze, and Arri will build an Alexa with a tiny sensor to fit that need.

As someone who shot exclusively on a 5D3 with magic lantern for ~1.5 years during which I was shooting every week, it is far inferior to most of today's prosumer offerings in every way, including plain image quality. If it's what you have, then yes, a 5D3 with ML produces beautiful images and it will continue to do so. However there is no situation in which I would recommend it as a purchase.

I guess my point is that, for whatever reason, these people don't consider it in need of "fixing," it's already how they like it. Maybe the real takeaway is that you and I are just old curmudgeons now lol.

It's kind of fascinating how popular bad looking videos are. Lots of people take videos on phones, add snapchat filters on their 5" screen in direct sunlight, post, and people like it.

I recently did a backpacking trip and brought an S5. The same sensor and same image quality in a smaller, lighter package would have been nice. I'm glad to see Panasonic making a small FF camera. Hopefully their next generation will have an EVF, more like the Sony A7C series I suppose. Actually, though, I'd be even more interested in some really small lenses for L mount. Their 26mm f8 is way too slow, but hey at least they're making a start.

My rule of thumb is that if I use an item on 5 or more shoots, buying (and reselling at the end) is cheaper than renting. That's probably fairly conservative too: I usually buy used, so when I sell I get 60-80% of the cost back. I've even sold cameras at a profit after 1-2 years.

Why did it triple post?

Oh sweet, a double post

Oh, maybe I misunderstood "big old lights" to mean "big, old lights." High wattage LEDs from those companies are all fairly recent--even within the realm of LED lights themselves being fairly recent. Seems to me that quality LEDs have only become available at reasonable prices within the last 5 years or so.

Everyone posting here might know this, but just for inexperienced readers' sake, I'll point out that the light output per watt of different light types is very different. An LED is about twice the lumens/watt of an HMI, so a 5k HMI is not equivalent output to a 5k LED. Strictly in terms of bang for buck, tungsten might be the mot affordable. You can get used tungsten fixtures and replacement lamps for nothing compared to LEDs. Of course you'll be dealing with uncomfortable heat output, dangerous surface temperatures, and insane power draws. For those reasons, I opt for LEDs these days, despite the price. Right now I use an Amaran 100D and 200D and I'm happy with them for their price. The important thing other than light quality is to use a standard mount (such as Bowen) for shared modifiers. Are you sure they were LED and not HMI? I don't think we've had quality LED lights that powerful for very many years so I'd be curious which old units they were. I could be wrong though.

Post. I trust my calibrated monitor in a controlled room better than the one on set. So what I do with any new camera is I do a bunch of tests to find a setting that I like, then I shoot everything in that setting and adjust in post as needed. That way I am very familiar with what I can or can't do with that setting. I will often do tests to create specific color node graphs ahead of time, designed to be applied in post. But on the shoot I want everything to be familiar, even when I know based on my tests what it will transform into. That's not to say I'm good at cinematography. But I do think I'm good at not wasting people's time. I test everything ahead of time by myself or with the people leading the project, then we maximize set time for the actors and crew. No fiddling with settings while people are waiting around.

What I like about recent Canon C line is that the skin often has a bit more separation from other colors. I don't know that I prefer red/magenta, but it's not nice if skin gets muddled with everything else. I wouldn't say all Canon, because I was honestly never a fan of the C100's image for the few shoots I used it on. I don't know that I especially like color on the Panasonic S-series as SOOC it tends to exaggerate yellows. It's a great camera and does what I need at an unbeatable price though.

Right, but they are not the same as shooting log and then using Resolve color management as a 1-step modification. On my S5, shooting Vlog and then using color management > shooting standard profile. Or, if you mean a baked in user-specified LUT, that adds another dimension again. I know, I meant for the discussion. Otherwise... Alexa 35 is always the answer 🙂 These are hard questions because almost no test footage on the internet is SOOC, I haven't used every camera, and also of course there are many different film stocks so it really depends what you consider a film look. I'll also assume price new so the C70 is >$4k etc. But given my limited knowledge, and if the only consideration is color with zero post manipulation, for a generic project, my only answer is the Samsung NX1. Absolutely blows everything else I've used out of the water! However, I would never use NX as its a dead system with no active EF adapters. And there is no log profile. So my personal choice in that scenario would probably be a Panasonic S5IIx. But a good portion of my reasoning is based on Vlog, its pixel shift photo mode, and no strange crop factors and other limitations like some others. So not strictly color. This introduces another caveat in addition to the ones above, which is that color is the last consideration for a run and gun doc. My choice is whichever camera has the best AF, IS, sensitivity, audio, and reliability. So while the NX1 color is great, it's absolutely my last pick for the purpose. Overall, I would pick a C200 for the $4k budget, and C500mkII for $10k. They have great color and also fit the other criteria. Ergonomics play much less of a role here than for doc, but of course the big consideration is what the production looks like and what our goal is. Are we shooting natural light? Studio lights? Indoor with a couple 100-200W LEDs? What lenses? Since I can take my time, I'm absolutely shooting log and doing color work in post. So I wouldn't even consider the SOOC question for this scenario 🙂 For $5k I'm probably using a Z Cam F6. The ergonomics, sensitivity, and wireless control are huge, and the color is fine. For $10k the C500mkII looks pretty good. My friend just got a pair and loves them, but I haven't tried it personally.

Yeah I heard the original question, and I think that while the posts diving into complex grading are fascinating and useful to those of us who do post, I know that getting good color SOOC is a separate question. One big point about your question is that it doesn't break down by manufacturer. Not all REDs look the same, not all Sonys look the same, etc. I think the Sony FX6 looks fine, but I dislike the FS7. Also, most cameras have different profiles. Sometimes, there is greater difference between profiles on the same camera, than between normal/natural/standard/default/whatever profiles on many different cameras. And even within a profile, you'll have totally different results based on how many controls you leave on auto (such as WB) and your lens. SOOC and minimal grading are completely different. SOOC excludes log profiles, for one thing. There is budget as well. Best SOOC ever? Alexa 35, probably. Under $10k? C500mkII gets my vote. Under $2k? Nikon Z6 is solid. Are you including lenses in your budget? I like the color out of my Canon L 24-105 better than that of my Canon 50 1.8 (tested on Sony A7rII). Though I have also used terrible lenses for specific scenes, specifically to make them less appealing. If you want a specific answer or even a specific discussion, ask a more specific question because your original question is extremely open ended--which is fine to start with! But it's probably more useful and interesting to narrow the parameters a bit.

...with a lot of makeup, lighting, and color correction. Definitely true, which is why I also said that I don't believe any mainstream brand is objectively better than others. Most of the people posting here have said that in one way or another.

I see your point @SRV1981about wanting good SOOC color and not wanting detailed info about post color correction. But kye's primary point that color is not about the camera is correct. Makeup changes people's skintones to make them more pleasing, both in real life and on camera. Makeup will do more for your image than camera brand. A simple layer of anti-sweat makeup (I don't know the proper name, but our makeup person used it on some shoots) doesn't change hue, but reduces specular highlights, and immediately makes skin look better*. It's an effect which is impossible SOOC from any brand without makeup. (*And when I say "better" that's content-dependent. If you want a shiny, sweaty face in a horror movie that's of course a separate style of makeup) If you really want info on SOOC color from different cameras, it might help to describe exactly what you are looking for, perhaps using existing movies as examples. Because all modern cameras are good in their own way, so whether you like the creative options from Panasonic vs Canon is all about your creative intent. If you want general, all purpose good color, then I don't believe there is any mainstream brand that is better than others at this time.

https://www.newsshooter.com/2024/04/15/deity-releases-dxtx-plug-in-transmitter-that-records-32-bit-float-and-transmits-simultaneously/ On paper this is exactly what I want. 32 bit float in a single channel plug on recorder, with batteries that can be replaced on set. And it integrates with their TC system! I've definitely grumbled about closed TC systems, but at least this one connects to everything without extra boxes. Unlike UltraSync blue requiring a separate box just to output LTC. I'll wait for real world reviews and audio samples, but the DXTX looks like it will vastly simplify a boom setup for me. The one design choice that seems pretty odd is that there is no headphone output. Looks like the only way to monitor this thing is with a THEOS receiver, which would be unfortunate. It would be nice if it were a standalone field recorder that you could use with just a mic and no other gear, or if it could be mounted on a mirrorless camera as the XLR adapter. Though in fairness, neither of those are the primary use case that I am excited to apply it towards.

More than $1k if you buy used. I saw one for <2k and almost got it, but that was when I was still waiting to see what BM would announce. I actually prefer the non-pro even for the same price because NP batteries are better for me. I use the app for monitoring so I don't want the monitor and don't need SDI. BNC timecode and more F buttons would be nice, though. IIRC F6 low jello is a crop mode, right? On the M4 it was a separate full sensor readout with considerably more noise. I rarely used it because it hurt the image too much--that MFT sensor definitely had no DR or noise to spare.