newfoundmass

This is my thought as well, as a S5 user. The mini HDMI is one of the reasons I don't use external monitors very often on my S5 bodies and will use my GH5 instead when I need to.

You really didn't differentiate, you heavily implied that Panasonic and Sony are in the "video" category while the others are in the "cinema" category. You then mentioned things related to the image they produce, such as color science, to explain why. Honestly the entire statement didn't make sense, and you seemed to be lumping the criticism people level at Sony in with Panasonic. What about Pannyboy's philosophy of adding advanced cinema/video features to even their entry level cameras makes them inferior, our soulless, to those other companies? And what DCI options is Pannyboy missing compared to them? Didn't Pannyboy literally introduce DCI to the mirrorless world? What does Sony and Panasonic being diversified businesses have to do with being "soulless?" The diversity, and the extra income streams, is what has made their imaging divisions possible. Re: Panasonic's image. As I said, "I think Panasonic has had the most filmic image out of the major camera manufacturers since the S series was released." The issues with the S5ii, which will eventually get fixed with a firmware update, don't detract from the near universal praise the S series cameras have gotten for the images they produce. You mention the GH5, which is a six-year-old camera: what relevance is that to what I said? And what were any of those companies producing six years ago that came anywhere close to offering the value and image of the GH5 when it came to video? Almost every other company has caught up to Canon when it comes to colors, and most produce overall a better or just as good image (and have for years.) The days of Canon eating everyone's lunch when it comes to color are over.

You kinda did... 😉 I've been labeled a Panasonic fanboy on here recently, so this will probably come as no shock, but I think Panasonic has had the most filmic image out of the major camera manufacturers since the S series was released. Even in the color department, where I always preferred Canon, I think they've surpassed them in a lot of ways. Everyone else has moved toward more pleasing colors while retaining color accuracy, while Canon still have nice colors that aren't very accurate. That was okay when everyone lagged behind overall, but not so much anymore.

They really were smart to open up e-mount to anyone that was willing to make lenses for it. I think it had a huge impact on the growth of the system. That the third party options were also excellent quality didn't hurt either!

I definitely see a difference. The image isn't completely unpleasing. I think the issue isn't so much that it's there if you want that level of denoising, but that you can't turn it off. I'm personally opposed to having less control over how the image looks, so it'd be very much appreciated if Lumix could give people the option to adjust how much denoising is going on.

To me, it just makes sense to release power zooms as video has become such an important part of the mirrorless market. I miss the ergonomics of camcorders in general, but I especially miss the ability to do smooth and repeatable zooms. For event work it'd be a huge deal for folks, I think.

You've been dismissive and combative with everyone that has been remotely critical of this camera. Give it a rest. If you want to disagree with people, fine, but do it without accusing them of just parroting Andrew or being "fanboys" of another camera company. It lacks customizable function buttons of other cameras in its price range. It lacks dual card slots, which is also available in other cameras in its price range. Likewise, it lacks IBIS, which is also available in cameras in its price range. That it's so lightweight also doesn't do it any favors when it comes to stabilization. It has a worse EVF than many cameras in its price range. It has micro HDMI. These are all ergonomic issues that make the camera less efficient in a working environment. They might not matter to you, but they matter to a lot of people and are enough to make some of us say that this camera has poor ergonomics/design.

Hopefully it's something they can fix in a firmware update.

GX85 maybe?

Calm down and stop being so defensive. I've said nothing that others, including a Canon user in @herein2020, haven't said. That it annoys you so much that people aren't impressed with this camera says more about you than any of us. I've been as hard on Panasonic these past couple of years as anyone. It's such a lame excuse to accuse people of fan boyism.

I'm filming on two S5 bodies and a GH5. I don't care about using the latest and greatest. I'm merely pointing out, in response to people insisting on comparing the R8 to 3 year old cameras to point out how great it is, that someone before long will inevitably come along and release a FF 4k60p camera but without all the compromises for under $2000. I've had a GH5 for 6 years, so yes, I've had IBIS for the last 3-4 years. I've also had no recording limits/overheating, two card slots, good battery life, a body capable of tons of customization, etc. To me these are just as important as the image quality, because they make my job easier. How is this camera built for speed?

That 20-60mm kit lens is the best kit lens I've ever used, and is a genuinely good lens. When I bought my first S5 used I planned to sell the kit lens but then when I got it I decided not to. When I bought my second S5 body I ended up buying a second 20-60mm because of how good it is and in the event I needed two wider shots. Usually I use the 24-105mm on one body and the 20-60mm on another, but it's worth having that extra 20-60mm in my case for when I need it. My next lens will be the 35mm f1.8, I think. The Panny XLR adapter is great, but if you're feeding it a line in there's not much of a reason to use it over the mic jack. You'll get good audio either way, since Panasonic pre-amps have been pretty good since the GH5. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!

When I said cut down on the price I meant by not needing it to be parfocal. I wouldn't expect a power zoom version of the 24-105mm to be cheaper than the current lens. I'd pay more (within reason) to have a version of that lens with power zoom capabilities. Video has come such a huge part of the industry that everyone should be making power zoom lenses.

With all the hubbub over raw I do think we're pretty close to it being irrelevant for all but major productions. The images we're able to record these days internally, without using raw or an external recorder, are really good. The gap has narrowed so much.

Yes, I'm serious. And if you don't think a FF camera at a comparable price point with better specs won't be announced in the next 6 to 12 months then you don't follow the camera industry. My comments aren't because I'm a Canon hater, they're because it's an average release with one standout feature. The R7 is a better option, and I gave Canon credit on this forum when it was announced. If you're fine spending $1500 on a camera that lacks IBIS, has only one card slot, terrible battery life, poor ergonomics, etc. because it has full frame 4K60p then cool. But your opinion is no more valid than mine.

Parfocal would be nice, but honestly I'd be happy with the 24-105 f/4 but with a power zoom function, especially if it would cut down on the price. The 24-105 is so close to being parfocal anyway that it's not that big of a deal.

One camera was released in 2023, the other was released in 2020. A 2023 camera shouldn't be comparable to a camera released nearly 3 years earlier, regardless of the price. Canon doesn't deserve a ticker-tape parade for releasing an average camera with one great feature (and several handicaps) just because they priced it lower than a bunch of cameras that are 2-3 years older than it. It's a pretty damning indictment of Canon that people think they do simply for not releasing a lemon. An entry model camera that was released three years ago! Within 6 to 12 months there will be a FF camera that exceeds what the Canon R8 can do, and probably significantly, while priced competitively. You are laser focused on that one spec and just ignoring everything else that was cut from this camera. Outside that one spec, and the better autofocus, it's not even a more capable camera than the 2 1/2 year-old S5 that now goes for $1000 used and the same price brand new as the R8. The obsession with full frame has become so entrenched that functional cameras are completely dismissed by some folks because they have crop sensors. It's just crazy. It's not so much that it's not a big deal because of those cameras, it's just not that big of a deal because it's the natural progression camera companies have been moving toward, except most of those companies are moving towards that without removing camera features like Canon does.

Ultimately Canon accomplished what they wanted by including uncropped 4K60 because that simple fact has blinded some people into thinking this is some great release/super value camera. To be clear, it's not an awful release, but let's stop praising Canon because they're doing more than the bare minimum finally.

The A7c is like 3 years old. We're setting the bar awful low if "it's a better value than a 3 year old camera" is all it takes to praise Canon. It seems like any time they don't release a complete lemon people feel the need to praise them like you'd praise a dog for going to the bathroom outside while potty training them. (sorry, I'm currently potty training a pup!)

Canon is confusing because their releases can sometimes feel random. Releasing the R50 makes sense, since it's the uber low cost entry level camera that will get the normal user into the RF system. We all know people that are the R50's target audience. I really don't know though what the target audience for the R8 is, and if anything it feels like it's competing with Canon's own cameras, namely the R7. I've seen people repeat some variation of "they'll sell a ton of these" all over the place, but to who? This feels kind of like the replacement for the RP but did that camera really sell well? I don't know anyone that bought one. I feel like the R8 will be much the same. The R7 feels like a better overall option for people needing a b-cam for professionals or enthusiasts. Maybe it'll be useful as a permanent "studio" cam for Youtubers? But they don't need uncropped 4K60p for that anyway.

Indeed, there are quite a few troubling signs when it comes to AI and the way it will be used in the future. To me, there is a lot of promise in AI as long as it's used as merely a TOOL or aid to the person. It's disappointing, but not at all surprising, that it is being viewed as a replacement for the person completely.

I think people confuse a low price with "being a good value." To me, the only thing that really impresses me is the uncropped 4k60p. But if you want any stabilization in that mode won't it crop into the sensor anyway? Not as drastic as an APSC crop you'd get on other cameras, but a crop nonetheless.

S5 bodies are going for absolute bargains right now. I kinda wish I'd waited a few months before buying my second one even though I got a pretty good deal on it!

This camera illustrates the significant difference between Canon and everyone else. Even when putting out a compelling package, and for some folks this is a compelling package, they can't help themselves from holding back something significant like IBIS. Meanwhile, others are putting everything they can into even their entry level options. To me this feels like a stop gap more than anything. It's not compelling enough for most serious users, but might provide an upgrade path for RP or R users who might be eying the exit as other companies offer better value and those cameras continue to become long in the tooth.

Thank you! Quick question/comment though: I've never had a problem with the S5 being so jittery on the y-axis like it is in your clips. I've used the kit lens, which doesn't have OIS, and the 24-105mm, which does, for the last year. What lens did you use?