A_Urquhart

Ok, I should clarify, I was taking past tense as my comment would suggest. Yes, while the cinema cameras (not all the cameras you mention would be classed as 'Cinema Cameras' but anyway.....) you mention do have internal ND's or the option to add single ND filters behind the lens, this is only starting to happen now so not sure you can expect all new cameras at the price points we are discussing here to have the same tech. Just to specify some of the cameras you mention: Alexa Mini, OK has internal Nd's but do you think the OP want's to use a 5 pin lemo breakout cable for audio. Sure buy a Wooden camera XLR module but the Alexa doesn't come with good audio in mind out of the box to suit the self shooter. Even with the Wooden Camera XLR module, I wouldn't want to be a solo shooter using an Alexa Mini and expecting to plug mic's straight into the camera and get great, usable audio other than for a scratch track. Alexa LF: You can place a single ND filter behind the lens but it is not as quick and easy to change like the filter wheel on a more broadcast oriented camera. Arri Amira: Arri designed this for a single operator. Not sure Arri market it as a Cinema camera but.... Sony F5, more aimed at the Broadcast market. It's a broadcast workhorse. Either way, I agree that it would be nice, but don't get angry when a company releases a 'Cinema Camera' and it doesn't have some of these features.

While I hear what you're saying...what you are asking for is a MFT 'broadcast camera'. Cinema cameras have never really cared for internal ND's, 4 channels of audio or great quality audio for that matter. I said it when the Pocket4k came out, but if Blackmagic released a Pocket4K Pro with internal ND's , a tilt-able screen, and a form factor more like a small FS5 or Or Canon XC line camera, they would see like hotcakes.......and maybe the should just call it the Blackmagic Pocket4k Pro. Don't use the words 'Cinema' or 'Broadcast' in the name at all. I really don't agree with this. A Cinema Camera is made very differently to a camera you would use to shoot weddings. The Arri Alexa SXT for example, has most of the camera setting controls and LCD screen for checking settings, on the opposite side of the camera to where the DP or Operator is as the 1st AC generally changes these parameters. A cinema cameras main focus is image quality. For example, the reason they generally don't have built in ND's is because a good quality ND filter set used in cinema, costs more than the Pocket4k or any other VDSLR alone. I see what you are saying, and while yes, you can use some cinema cameras like a Red (due to it's small form factor), to shoot weddings, I think people are really expecting one camera to do everything from shooting weddings to shooting feature films and to appeal to everybody which is just not going to happen any time soon, especially at the low end price point and with a form factor of a small VDSLR. While sure, you can shoot a feature film for cinema screening on pretty much any modern day video camera (the Ursa Mini Pro has internal ND's as does the FS5 and both of those cameras would look fine on the big screen), we should stop using the term 'cinema camera' when what we are looking for is a small camera that is suitable for self shooting and has all the bells and whistles of a modern DSLR. In the same way as many people who pick up a DSLR call themselves 'DP's' when really, they have never had to plan lighting set-up's, direct a team of gaffers etc. We use these terms because they sound cool but it just causes confusion. Sure, its might be cool to say to the client that the camera you are using to shoot their wedding is what they shot 'XYZ blockbuster feature film' on, but is it the right tool for the job? This! I have now told three friends with Pocket4K's to buy a monopod after they switched from VDSLR's with IBIS to the Pocket4K. These friends had never used monopods before and all three came back to me after a day of shooting saying how amazed they were with how easy it was to shoot with and that they far preferred the subtle look of motion when using the monopod compared to when they shot with VDSL's that had IBIS. Monopods are great for quick shots and super versatile. Get one with the three feet at the end like the Surui 204 series.

While there seems to be quite a few complaints about BRAW from heavy forum users, I've now worked on two high profile Ad campaigns that have used BRAW and haven't heard a DP complain about it. At the same time, I've spoken first hand to VFX guys and girls that have said that they are really happy with the new codec. Here's a few pics of the P4K being used as a B Cam on a recent car ad for those interested.

Completely agree. You shouldn't have to use a work around, a feature should work properly and it seems the Phantom power doesn't at the moment.

Yes, Resolve isn't perfect either, but as an edit suite it is in it's infancy and the improvements come thick and fast. Adobe is an old product so should have its shit together by now. Resolve isn't perfect, but I have more hope in it than Adobe.

Yep, the slight noise is too much for me too. The P4K is a B Camera for me so I rarely need anything more than scratch audio from it but I too will be getting in touch with BMD about the issue. Not really good enough as you say. Just out of interest, have you tried testing it while the camera is powered from the mains?

Me too. I'm using Resolve Studio for most of my own projects now. Used Adobe at a post house with seven suites and had constants issues with Premiere and Creative Cloud accounts. There is also a large scale documentary currently being cut here that I worked on that had to have an Adobe 'Technician' flown in from the other side of the world to help 'resolve?' so many issue as, the project/ suite was unworkable. Premiere is just not fit for large scale projects. While I haven't had to call tech support for Resolve yet, the way BMD has dealt with issues I have had with software relating to Decklink Cards, I am slightly reassured they will deal with any issues far better than Adobe. As a long term Adobe user, they are not getting any more of my money. Terrible product, terrible customer support.

Ive just done a test on mine using a Rode NTG3. Yep, with phantom power, there is a slight noise as you describe. Not really audible at 50% level but definitely audible at 90% level. Hmmmm, not ideal! Basic, but nice little comparison of the P4K to the UMP : https://youtu.be/EmuDLGCm7As

Not sure that is correct. The Studio version can exploit multiple GPU's where the free version is limited to a single GPU. A good article on hardware options for Resolve can be found here: https://www.pugetsystems.com/recommended/Recommended-Systems-for-DaVinci-Resolve-187/Hardware-Recommendations And this for a good comparison of GPU's using real world video editing scenarios: https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/DaVinci-Resolve-14-NVIDIA-GeForce-vs-AMD-Radeon-Vega-1213/ If you're not bothered about Premiere, the AMD graphics cards are a little cheaper than the GTX series and still a good option.

It existed a while ago....Genus showed a prototype years ago....... https://petapixel.com/2015/09/17/this-is-a-prototype-of-an-electronically-controlled-nd-filter-lens-adapter/ It would be interesting to find out why nothing came of it, was the tech/ patent bought out by someone or is the tech just not financially viable in a lens adaptor?

I bought Wasabi batteries and while they never got stuck in the camera, the camera did shut down after about 25mins and with the meter showing 75% full so I don't think it has anything to do with the swelling. What I did find is that if I put the Wasabis in with a full charge and left the camera on, the meter would start at 100% and then shut down at 75% 25mins later. But, if I did the same and turned the camera off after 15mins or so (meter showing around 85% left) and then back on, the meter would then show 8% or so charge and shut down five or so minutes later. Seems that the meter was accurate after powering down the camera and rebooting. This only happened with the Wasabis (which I have now sent back). With Genuine LP-E6N, I'm not having any issues.

The Titla G2X set up looks ideal.......shown with the P4K too!

Well written Andrew. Just out of interest, when using my Speedbooster XL and Canon 24-105 f4, The P4K displays the max apurture as f2.7. Also, when using my Canon 1.8 primes, the max apurture displays as f1.2 with the Speedbooster XL. I know some people have commented they want a Full Frame pocket 4K but I think that the MFT sensor is one of it's biggest strengths and extremely versatile. As you say, a crop of only 1.2 when used with a speedbooserXL and great lowlight performance with it's combination of speed booster light magnification and great sensor.

I know, crazy right? Tap to focus doesn't currently work with the Speedbooster XL. I haven't heard of anyone using any speed booster getting the tap to focus working. The Speedbooster XL is best for for full frame lenses on the Pocket. The Sigma 18-35 vignettes with the XL so a .71 Speedbooster would be best for APS-C lenses.

Today, I managed the impossible! Used the Pocket4K as a B Camera to the F5. Shot seven, five minute interviews, all run n gun style, all handheld with no additional accessories (using Canon 24-105 and Speedbooster XL) plus some B-Roll footage over the coarse of 8 hrs. Went through one and a half Canon LP-E6n batteries, they didn't get stuck, the battery door never flung open, the shots were steady (despite no IBIS!), they were in focus (Despite no AF or Focus Puller!)....and the Director was impressed with the footage despite shooting ProRes422 to SD cards. Must have been a fluke cos I'm constantly hearing that this type of shooting is impossible. ? Seriously though, Tilta look to be doing great things with accessories for the P4K and I love the integrated NP-F battery and SSD Slot in the grip. The only issue is that it makes the camera too wide. There really isn't any need for a handle on the left side of the camera so I would rather see a solution that has a battery or two in a battery grip that attaches to the bottom of the camera in a similar fashion to a Canon DSLR grip that would allow hot swapping batteries. Can't be too hard right?

I mentioned something similar in the Pocket4K thread just after I got the camera. I bought mine as a B Cam to the Ursa Mini Pro. Ultimately though, I would happily have paid a little more for a 'Pocket4KPro'. Sensor wise, I'm happy with the MFT sensor as I am using mine exclusively with Speedboosters. The other downside generally for MFT is low light performance but I'm really happy with the Pocket4K in that regard. Blackmagic, make a Pocket4K Pro with same sensor but a form factor that can include a tilting screen, can accomodate a Sony BPU-60 style battery, an SDi output and maybe has internal ND's. For me, I would want it a little smaller than an FS5, maybe similar to a Canon XC15/ C100 style. ?

Blackmagic themselves also sell a power cable kit that is cheaper than the Wooden Camera cable and gives you three cables rather than one.

But your comparing completely different lenses. A 1.2 lens is generally going to cost a lot more than a 1.8 lens. Same as the Fuji 55-140, it's rated at 2.8 so why compare it to the Sony f4? I understand that DOF wise they are comparable taking into account FF vs Crop but a 2.8 or 1.2 lens is faster when it comes to light transmission no matter what system and thus generally more expensive to make. Prime wise, the Fuji XR f2.0 series lens line is pretty well priced and beats all Sony lenses hands down IQ wise apart from maybe Sony's G Master series which are ridiculous money. If you want a good zoom for video, I'm finding the 'kit' lens, XF 18-55 to be great and only costs $300USD. Sure, it's variable, rated at f2.8-f4 but iv'e been really impressed with the IQ out of it for such a small, versatile and cheap lens. At the current price, it's a no brainer.

I have noticed that when changing out a battery, the used battery is quite warm when ejecting it. I'm wondering if all these battery compartment issues are more to do with cheap batteries not being able to handle the warmth without expanding beyond spec. Any cases of batteries getting stuck with the BMD or genuine Canon batteries?

Monopods are no replacement for a tripod. They can definitely be a replacement for IBIS though while still giving you a slight handheld look with a little bit of natural motion to the shot. Exactly. as above. Really don't know what you are doing wrong. Do your monopods have the three feet at the bottom that tilt and a fluid head? If so, these are extremely versatile for video. Exactly, insisting that a camera without IBIS or AF is unusable is just wrong.

Ahaha, this thread title was a statement that another 'goofy arsed' member here made. ? I'm not here saying IBIS and AF have no place on cameras, but the opposite should also not be said.

You're the one making the black and white statements that cameras are 'unusable' not me! Your the one saying that manually focusing is not precise enough, not me. I'm not here to win anything, if anyone thinks you can win an argument on the internet they are kidding themselves.

Cool, leave all the shots with terrible AF hunt in your film because it's new and looks different. OKaaaay! ?

@kye In relation to @thebrothersthree comment about the title of this thread, I replied with this: As you can see, in context, I used the word 'many' in "many seem to agree". Also, "is this the way things are going" is also a fairly general term. How did you take this so personally? If you did, I have no qualms in apologising so, I'm sorry if you felt personally attacked. My question was, are people who expect 'cinematic' images really too lazy to focus a camera or use some kind of support because these contribute to the 'cinematic' look just as much as IQ (and lighting). I mean the point of this thread is not to critique any individual shot and tell you how you could have achieved similar without IBIS. If you do want personal critique, PM me and I'll happily give you some other ideas if you so wish. Exactly, there will be a lot of users here that come to this site for information on purchasing a camera who might be new to the whole game. Your advice that a particular camera is 'useless' because it doesn't have AF or IBIS gives false information in two ways. It suggests that you can't shoot good images unless you have both those features and it suggests that those two features will ensure that all your footage comes out rock solid and sharp. I'm here to provide some context in that if you want to really use a cinema camera (or even mirrorless camera) well, and get great shots out of it, be prepared to use a monopod/ tripod or similar and be prepared to learn how to focus manually if you really want to further your skills. While AF is great, it can hunt around if it can't decide what to focus on and no one wants to see AF hunt in a 'cinematic' video.

Fair enough. Got any examples of how accurate and smooth the AF is when shooting at 0.95 on a lens with speed booster? I'm genuinely interested to see it in action.