A_Urquhart

Just because a camera doesn't have AF doesn't mean you need a focus Puller. Operators pull focus themselves all the time. This thread is not Cine camera vs Mirrorless, you brought up the C700 for some reason. BTW, which lens are you using to get f0.95 and AF?

Calm down Kye I wasn't calling you lazy if that is what has made you aggressive. I was talking in a general term. You could have shot that shot differently, who knows, it could have turned out better, or worse. I could list a few different ways you could have got that shot or something very similar without IBIS but that's not the point of the thread. Sometimes limitations cause us to think more creatively. Was this a slider shot? It doesn't look like it....but if it was and you pulled it off smoothly, well done. What I wall say is that while no features on your list is essential to everyone, there are some that are a lot harder to workaround if you don't have them. Ive never had a director or producer say that my camera had to have IBIS or AF, whereas I have had them request we shoot 4K, or 50p or that it had to be a 10bit codec. If your camera can't do it, it's hard to work around that. No not everyone works professionally or on demanding productions, but then Im not the one making black and white statements that a camera is unusable if it doesn't have IBIS or AF. Im not here to pick on individual shots, yes IBIS and AF can be useful. I just don't think that a camera without them is unusable and the notion that it is kinda perplexes me hence the thread. Let's not forget that you can add stabilisation via a lens too. Just because it's not in the body, doesn't mean its a bad camera. X-T3, GH5's will still shoot great images and be used successfully by many. My FS700 had face detection too. I agree, it's nice to have if implemented well but no DP using a cine camera (as you are referring too) is going to say that an Alexa, Red, F5, Varicam etc are "useless"

I agree, but it is based on a ridiculous statement which many seem to agree with. I'm just interested to know if this is the way things are going? People are too lazy to carry a tripod or monopod and too lazy to focus the camera but then use the term 'not cinematic' when judging a cameras image. Kinda strange combo to me. Kye's points are also perfectly valid, different tools for different jobs but people in discussions expect a camera to do everything perfectly and have every feature under the sun otherwise it's not workable. I just think people are getting lazy. Like slowmo, it's easy to shoot nice looking slowmo so people are getting lazy and shooting everything in slowmo......

I used this same setup for a few years on the A7S with the XLR module on top for a great Run n Gun package. This lens was made for full frame yet many seem to put them on the FS7 which with its crop sensor, means this lens at 28mm isn't wide enough as a do it all lens IMO. On the Red Epic we had however, we had the Sigma 18-35 and 50-100 for lower end gigs that didn't call for hiring cine lenses. The sigmas really punch well above their weight in regards to pure image quality.

I'd highly recommend taking a monopod with you if you shoot with that same director again. While it doesn't completely replace a tripod, for Run n Gun shoots with small cameras, I am absolutely loving my monopod. Just make sure it has the three small feet at the end as these are super versatile.I'm really surprised more people don't use them. They take a third of the time to set up, having to only undo one set of latches instead of three and easy to carry being far lighter than any tripod. For shooting talking heads too, they are pretty much just as steady as a tripod as long as you are on fairly level ground . I wouldn't walk away walk away from the camera leaving it on a monopod but then you wouldn't do that hand held either. Steadicam recently released one with a foot activated lever for raising and lowering the camera. This is the ultimate in speed for me but wish it had the three feet at the bottom rather than one......also wish it was a little cheaper. I'd put a fluid head on it too for more versatility.

I agree.

True. AF can be good if the transition is super smooth and you use tap to focus to manually select the focus points. Without tap to focus, AF isn't smart enough to know which part of the image you want to focus on so the smoothness becomes irrelevant unless you are face tracking one face wihich is where AF shines.

You have it wrong Andrew. How would you like to prove it so we can move on? Just to clarify, I started this topic and am asking this question because in another thread it was suggested by someone that in this day and age, a camera without IBIS and AF is useless out of the box.

Spare me....usually people resort to aggression like that when they have nothing valid to say. Thanks Snuff but this guy must work for BMD as he's not hating on the camera enough ? Sorry, couldn't resist! Moving on, while brief, It was nice to see the P4K side by side with the UMP and OG pocket. The OG pocket definitely didn't seem to have any 'mojo' in the shot provided!

Very constructive....and why the aggression? Blow all the shit you want? Unlike your comments, I'd like to think mine are quite constructive . Your totalitarian comment's are completely unproven. Plenty of good quality videos are made without IBIS or AF. Simple......as.....that! And in terms of making money, i'm finding it easier getting the Pocket4k on gigs as a BCam than the mirrorless DSLR's Ive used previously. Producers rather a camera that shoot's ProRes, and has Timecode capability etc. In the same way that producers prefer my FS7 with the Timecode back to an FS7 without it I am on DVX user by the way. It's BMCuser that I can't post on purely because the mods haven't activated the permissions yet. They are apparently quite slow at doing it.

I for one don't think so but let's discuss. For narrative work, I still think traditional rigging like a tripod, slider or even a gimbal are the best ways to get 'cinematic' (for lack of a better word) shots. For run and gun, I think a good monopod (or even well balanced shoulder rig) gives better results than IBIS in most situations and are far more versatile. For example , you can still change a camera setting with one hand and hold the camera steady with the other if using a monopod. If handheld, taking one hand off the camera to use the touch screen or press a button means you only have one point of contact (your right hand) and gives shoddy looking footage even with IBIS on. Thoughts?

It doesn't have half the features of the GH5/GH5s, It has different features. Taking the photo side of the GH5 out of the equation, I would say the pocket has more features for video. If you need a hybrid camera obviously the P4K is the wrong choice. I really don't understand this way of thinking. When shooting video, the GH5s only really has AF and a tilt-able screen up it's sleeve compared to the Pocket4k (and better battery life). Yes, AF is handy for shooting home videos, and yes, I wish the Pocket4k had a tiltable screen but to call it a useless camera is pretty silly. I've used it in a run n gun situation with zero accessories and more than happy with the results. How do you get to $3000? Add a $100 monopod, a $180 AndyCine a6 and an NP-F battery (the andycine can power the P4K) or 4 more LP-E6N batteries and you have a run n gun package that will be better than any IBIS can provide. A monopod is the most underrated bit of gear by videographers. Quick to set up, lightweight, easy to carry, versatile... and better than any IBIS or OS. While AF is nice for home videos, if you want to step up your video game, the sooner you learn to focus manually and ditch stop relying on AF the better. Are people today born with eyes that can't see, or hands that can't turn a focus barrel? Are they all born with hand tremor? Is a camera without AF or IBIS really useless in todays world? Maybe according to you, but I'm managing to use cameras from many different manufacturers that don't have either features pretty well. In relation to IBIS, while IBIS is nice for Home videos, for anything else, i'd still recommend using a monopod with or without IBIS. Are the X-T3 or GH5s useless today because they lack IBIS? No, people will make great videos with both. So, you're starting to add accessories? Again, I can easily add the Andycine a6 to the Pocket4K to get the tiltable screen. Speaking of adding accessories, you don't need to add any to get good audio into the P4K which you do for the GH series. So your GH5 has already gone up in price by adding the ninja star and Battery Grip. Talking about the Ninja Star, you do realise it's 1080p only right? To fairly compare to the Pocket4k you need to add the NinjaV which is $599USD. Your GH5 with NinjaV and battery grip to get audio now costs $2946USD but has the advantage of AF. The Pocket 4K with monopod and Andycine a6 cost around $1700. Will you be editing your videos? If so, you will need to add another $299 to get resolve for your GH5 making it closer to $3250. The P4K is far easier to use than the OG Pocket you really can't compare. Far better screen and ergonomics make it possible to use handheld. The OG Pocket was way too small to be used in the hand. You really can't put the two cameras in the same category or draw any similarities to them. When I switched to Fuji for stills, I really enjoyed using the camera and this made me want to use it more. In terms of video, so far the Pocket has done the same thing for me. Small package, un fussy menus and a great screen that reward's you instantly when looking at nice shot's. I just want to use it. It's actually less of a toy than most mirrorless cameras and I'm finding it a joy to use professional. It's far quicker to change settings on it than my X-T2 or the A7 series cameras that I have used as B-Cams before. It's by far more of a proper video tool compared to a hybrid but that's just my opinion. The workflow is not hard, you can bake LUTS in if you need quick turnaround or just use the provided BMD Rec709. I don't see how it's any slower. And if you shoot LOG on the GH5, then that still needs grading in post. For anyone reading this, camera brand aside, if you think IBIS and AF are going to make you shoot like a pro and some how magically make your images 'cinematic' ...they won't. 'Out of the box it's useless' ....'need to spend $3000 to make it work'....... 'it's a toy'. Considering you haven't used the camera yet, these are all pretty biased and inaccurate statements that I'd expect to hear out of a Panasonic rep ?

I enjoy conversation, for the most part and when constructive, but am trigger happy on the Submit reply button, then I read what I have read and it usually needs editing.....plus I'm on holidays at the moment and home alone so have too much time on my hands. Oooops, I did it again ?

Haha, yep, me, Mr Blackmagic......I closed the door!?. Despite the high viewing numbers of this thread, it's the same old people here commenting. I really doubt BMD needs this thread or Mr Reid to sell any of it's cameras.......the cameras have sold on their own without Andrew even getting a camera! Good luck folks, hope Santa visits you this December. Be good!

Not really sure what you mean by this. Yes, I like the camera because i knew exactly what it was going to be and it has lived up to that expectation. I'm not going to hate on it because it doesn't have a tilting screen because i knew it wasn't going to have one. I'm also not going to hate on it because it doesn't have continuous AF or IBIS because A: I don't need those features and B: I knew the camera was never going to have those features. I defend the camera against unrealistic people just because I am interested in the conversation relating to the camera and am quite dumb founded that people would find the need to get on a thread about a camera they do not want and does not meet their needs and start arguing about it. It's like me getting on the Sony A7III thread and ranting and raving about the fact that it doesn't do RAW or 10bit. Just sillyness! I'm trying to give people some perspective but people just want to bang on about why it doesn't have feature A or B that a mirrorless camera does have. One of my many faults is that I have low tolerance for stupidity, and there has been so much silly talk here that I felt the need to get involved. I mean, why the hell is Resolve not free? Why is Blackmagic not giving away it's products? Seriously. Can we talk about something constructive! I wonder if Emanuel or Dbounce works for Sony or Panasonic as they are constantly on here bashing the Pocket for not being what it was never intended to be. Why are they so intent on bashing a camera they have not interest in? Andrew has been very vocal about the X-T3 and despite years of interest in RAW, now thinks the X-T3 is the ducks nuts, does he now work for Fuji? So much ridiculousness....it's quite staggering.

Thanks for your honesty. I originally came here to discuss the camera I had pre-ordered as I saw John Brawley was active on here. Then, when I received the camera, I came here to share information as well as find things out from others. If talking a lot about your new camera and answering questions on it comes across as trying to sell it, then so be it but I'm not in the business of selling cameras. It also seems that if you like a camera and make perfectly valid points about it, you are a fanboy? I just don't get it here. Shooter sounded confused about Resolve and so I tried to help but does going out of your way to help someone these days mean you are trying to sell them something? Sad times! I've made a few posts on other threads recommending Sony cameras but again, I'm not selling Sony either. I am based in Melbourne, Australia which is where BMD are also based. I know Andrew suspects I might work for BMD but I can assure you I don't. While I am so far liking the camera a lot, if I had worked at BMD and had any involvement in the camera, I would not have let it go out the door without a tilt-able screen. Is it a deal breaker for me? No, but I can't understand why they would put a nice, sharp 1080p screen on a camera that you couldn't use all the time. I haven't been able to post on BMCuser because my account activation hasn't been completed. Thanks to a few users here who have PM'd me, that can soon change and you'll see the back of me. After a few weeks off from work, I'm looking forward to getting back to it. Too much pointless computer time sucks me in to discussions that I usually like to partake in but don't have the time for. Would have loved to have informative conversation about this camera but this forum doesn't seem to want to support good, informative conversation.

Yep, It would seem that the trolls have been released!

It's weird that you expect things to be free. It's just not the way the world works. I'm assuming that you are over ten years old here and I probably shouldn't do this just in case you aren't but......................Santa doesn't exist. Aaaand on this note, it would seem that Blackmagic's biggest mistake is making a cinema style camera that everyone can afford but not everyone would know what to do with. It's like handing an Alexa Mini to a teenager who's only interest is in taking photos of themselves in the mirror for instagram. They are going to wonder why the camera doesn't focus for them, or have built in tacky picture styles etc. Blackmagic have stuffed up the release of this camera, by making it so affordable and available to everyone it would seem.

It's weird that you expect things to be free. It's just not the way the world works. I'm assuming that you are over ten years old here and I probably shouldn't do this just in case you aren't but......................Santa doesn't exist.

But you do realise Blackmagic are giving you the FULL VERSION with the Pocket4k don't you? ?‍♂️

But aren't we talking about the Pocket4K here? You said that this could be a good camera but....hardware limitations. There are no hardware limitations with this camera and it's included software.

I have the camera and it came with Resolve Studio. Resolve studio is not the free version. You may be getting confused because people say that the camera comes with Resolve for free but I can assure you, it is Resolve Studio. I'm not all that familiar with all the differences but know that for example, the free version does not support dual GFX cards while Resolve Studio does.

The camera comes with the full version of Resolve Studio which would normally cost USD$299. No limitations like the free version of resolve.

So by your theory, BMD should have taken away 10bit, RAW, XLR, etc from the Pocket4K because it is in a similar price bracket to cameras that don't have those features and to compete, it needs to copy the specs of the other cameras that are the same price. Do you really know anything about business? It's like comparing a $40,000 four wheel drive to a $40,000 sports car and complaining that the sports car got stuck on the steep, loose off road section and should have come with a four wheel drive mode because it was the same price as the 4x4. Utterly ridiculous! Two cars, same price, completely different categories. Generally, people don't categorise something just because it's the same price. If you do, then good luck to you. Many here would't compare the Pocket4K with a smartphone as while they might share a similar price, they were designed to do different things. Two decades in the industry should have taught you that. I know it has for me! All the best Emanuel.

You don't categorise a camera based on it's price.