A_Urquhart

So should the Panasonic Varicam, Red Helium, Arri Alexa, Sony F5, Kinefinity Mavo etc all offer IBIS and Tracking AF considering that they cost many thousands more? Surely they should be able to include AF in their high priced cameras considering my phone has it right? For the price of an Alexa, you'd also think they could include a front facing camera for taking selfies! Interestingly, did you know that the Sony A7III face tracking AF apparently doesn't work when using an external monitor or recorder? Now theres something not many people would have known when they bought the camera! And BMD are giving you other things that no other manufacturer are. Go and complain that Panasonic are not giving you a free, top of the line edit suite when you buy a GH camera. Go and complain that Sony are not giving you internal TC, Phantom power, XLR inputs, a 5" 1080p screen, RAW, internal 10 bit etc. Its all about priorities. If your priorities are more in line with what Panasonic are doing, buy a Panasonic. Self centred? Blackmagic are more open than any other camera manufacturer I know. Look, I like a conversation , that's why I'm here so if you want to continue, feel free to PM me but I'm not sure this is the right place to talk about a companies business models.

Emanuel, I didn't insult Andrew in my post, I stated a fact and expressed my disappointment in his actions. I stand by the motto, lead by example and Andrew (as our leader!) has used expletives against me a few times while I never have towards him. A forum is about all of us, not just his agenda. Yep, if I don't like it, I can leave but I am also free to express myself as I think it's s shame for me and possibly some here if we all left. If I sounded abrupt, it's purely because all this arguing over unrealistic expectations is getting boring and overtaking the thread. I don't need to justify myself to you, but Ive done Business management, I understand it perfectly fine thanks.

Policies and lack of vision? Andrew is upset because he didn't get an invite to an event. That is the only reason. Before that, he was looking forward to the camera despite knowing that there was no IBIS, No flappy screen and no usable AF. We all knew it! And which market are you pigeon hole-ing the Pocket4K into? It was never meant to compete with Hybrid or mirrorless cameras for travelling or your mobile phone like you keep comparing it to. Blackmagic have always been about Image quality and affordability and are the leaders of the market at this price point and even way above. They lead the market in image quality in a camera this small, they lead the market in image quality at this price, they have had 10bit in a tiny camera for years and mirrorless are only now catching up so how can you say they are 'old school and lack vision? I know this makes me sound like a BMD rep (as Andrew suspects) but It's just getting tiring here on the Pocket4K thread constantly hearing people complain about things that we have known all along and expecting the camera to be something it was never intended to be. @Andrew Reid I started a thread where people could complain all they like about how the Pocket4K isn't a mirrorless hybrid. It would have been nice to have all this complaint somewhere and kept this thread for useful information. Why did you close that thread? The conversation had already started on it. Now, for useful information here, people have to trawl through pages and pages of useless argument. Really disappointed in your 'my way or the highway' dictator-like attitude Andrew.

No, people have been handholding cameras for many years. Does a phone shoot the quality of images the Pocket4K can? A smartphone has PDAF and an Array Alexa at over $70,000 doesn't. So what? I just don't get these arguments. If a phone has what you require, use it. Don't buy the pocket4. Pretty simple really isn't it? I have multiple cameras from three different manufacturers. I bought them each for their individual strengths. I did my research knowing what I needed and didn't need. I have no self esteem to protect here. I knew that the Pocket4K didn't have IBIS and wouldn't have a good, usable continuous autofocus system. No blackmagic camera ever has. I haven't just found this out and now feel the need to defend my decision. Is this really how people are these days? I know I can focus a camera manually, I know that when I am shooting on my own, I can attach a lens with OS or carry a tripod/monopod if need be or even shoot from the hip on a cine saddle. The price of the camera makes no difference, but if you need IBIS and AF, buy a camera that meets your needs. The pocket4k never claimed to have IBIS or usable continuous autofocus so I don't understand the disappointment here. If you wan't a travel camera, buy one that was designed for that purpose. I travel and take family photos/video with my Fuji X-T2. Sure, I could take family/travel videos with the Pocket4k but I don't like taking multiple cameras with me on holidays so I make the decision to sacrifice a little image quality for convenience.

You can record 4k60p in RAW on the Pocket4k with no problems. You just need to use 3:1 or 4:1 RAW, so no need to wait for BRAW (another compressed RAW format). I really don't know anyone who needs uncompressed RAW though. The Red Weapon doesn't do uncompressed RAW at all, only compressed at 2:1 and up. Is there anyone here that would say the Weapon is not good enough for them? IF the Pocket4K's USB port is USB3.1 Gen 2, then maybe we'll see an external drive like an NMVE drive, be able to record uncompressed but again, you really don't need it. Generally, you need two SSD's working as a RAID configuration to get uncompressed RAW. The Convergent Design Odyssey can only record uncompressed RAW CDNG at 4K60p when there are SSD's in both slots and your files end up needing to be merged afterwards. Wile it's not technically a RAID config, it does send every second frame to the second SSD as the data rates are just too high for a single SSD to handle. Same as Ursa Mini Pro, you need two CFast Cards in the camera for Uncompressed at 60p Maybe 2018 has made people soft. I don't know when it started that people had to have Autofocus and IBIS to be able to shoot on their own. Remember the Canon 5D that started this whole DSLR video revolution, it didn't have usable AF in video mode or IBIS and we all shot fine with that.

I'm no expert on the GH5 (never used it) but yes, I think the synchro scan feature would just adjust the shutter speed in finer increments than usual to find one that works with the lights you are using. So yeah, your shutter would not be at 180 anymore. Thanks Captain Hook, that looks much better.

Not in a 50hz country. Hmmm, not liking the look of that. I haven't done any shooting into red lights at night but will have to test it out tonight. If it's a common P4K issue, hopefully it can be fixed with firmware.

Looking forward to a forum that isn't run by a Nazi. Andrew closed the topic I created directing arguments between the GH5 and Pocket4k to another thread. It's his way or the highway here at EOSHD! ?

No worries and for most scenarios, I completely agree that 50p is a safer option.

I love how when you toggle the HFR function on the camera, the shutter angles all change to reflect the project and HFR speed you have set.

I did, but I didn't change anything that you referred too. I stated 216 degrees from the start. Never edited that. Yes, shooting at 50p gives you more flexibility in post but if you know what you are trying to achieve when you are shooting, 60p is a viable option and can be used without flicker if need be.

But the 216 degree shutter angle I suggested IS more than 180degrees. I wouldn't suggest shooting slow at 90 degrees.

Why is that? Do you only use 180 degree shutter exclusively? Not sure why you would want to shoot 30fps though. If you wanted a very slight slowmo effect you could shoot at 33fps which eliminates flicker at 180 degrees with LED's and incandescent. A bit of rolling flicker with Flouro's though at 33fps and 180 degree but this is fixable by choosing 237.6 degrees When shooting 60p, it is more for slow and a shutter angle of 216 is perfectly acceptable.

I live in a 50hz country (Australia) and just did a test here at home. Setting the HFR frame rate on the Pocket4k to 60p (but keeping the project rate at 25p) does result in flicker at 180degree shutter as would be expected. But, If you change the shutter to 216 degrees, the flicker goes away. Just tested this with a flouro tube, domestic LED's and incandescent bulb and no flicker with any of them.

Good find. Yes, the lack of sharpening on the Pocket is another huge plus. I love the smoothness of the image while at the same time not lacking detail at all.

Nope, I don't work for Blackmagic. I just own their camera and want to discuss it with people and share experiences but the constant arguments comparing it to other cameras is getting tiring. I suppose it is your job, I just made it a little easier for you. It's OK, you don't have to thank me ?

I'd go one further and say the GH5 is a stills camera with great video (Hybrid camera really) while the Pocket4k is a dedicated video/cinema camera but same, same.....

Hi Turbo, I too would love to move over to BMC user but while I am registered there, have never been given permission to post and have contacted the mods countless times but no-one seems to be home.

You were are big advocate for speed boosters and how they closed the gap on MFT vs Full frame. I really think the sensor size with a speed booster is a non issue and actually is a huge bonus over FF unless you need fast AF. In terms of Alexa shoots being ProRes, good DP's have good Gaffers and good budgets. They can control light much easier than solo shooters so don't really need the benefits of RAW most of the time. Yes, image quality is not that different but flexibility in post is. Also, many (not all) Alexa shoots shoot ProRes444 which is a 12bit codec so doesn't compare to the 10bit codecs now found in mirrorless cameras like the GH or X-T3.

So, rather than fill the Pocket4K thread with useless arguments, lets argue here. DBounce........fire away!

A Picture Profile is nothing like a LUT. Nope, people will still make great home videos/ low budget films etc on the GH5 once the GH6 is out. OK, so the GH5s has TC input but you lose IBIS. Which camera are you comparing here? Yep, needs an iditional add on making it a bigger, more expensive and heavier camera. Again, bigger, heavier, more expensive This is so much more than a codec and it's a massive advantage. No but it suggests that the materials used are strong. Last time I checked, FCPX, Adobe Premiere and AE were not included with any Panasonic cameras. Has this changed? Thats because you can't shoot raw on the GH5. I wasn't all that interested in this feature either when they announced it but having used it, it's actually really handy. ?‍♂️ Good grief.......obviously (or maybe not to some people) the GH3 was not six years old when I had issues with it. It was less than a year old. You can use OIS lenses on the Pocket. You can put the pocket on many gimbals. I really don't know where you are getting your info from? I'm not sure of your background, but I've shot on many cameras from BetacamSP (Manual Focus Only, no weather sealing) to the Red Weapon and Alexa (Again, MF only and no WR) and operated all the cameras without a crew. Just because you don't have AF doesn't mean you need a focus puller. Have you not seen operators pull focus off the barrel while looking through the EVF? It actually works! Skate videos have been shot without AF for years. Personally for my work and even just my creative standards, getting the shot but seeing some AF hunt is personally not acceptable to me. I'm pretty happy with how my eyes and focus ability are though and will trust them over AF. Ive had the camera for two weeks now and used it without a crew. It's an easy camera to operate. I do wish the screen would tilt, it seems a shame to have such a nice big screen and not be able to use it all the time. At the same time, while most mirrorless cameras screens do tilt, I've always found them too small so like to rig a bigger monitor or EVF anyway. Even just the fact that the screen is so big on the Pocket means that using the touch screen is such a joy. Can't say the same about the touch screens I have used on mirrorless cameras. Ive always maintained that most people don't need RAW due to the large file sizes, hardware requirement etc. 10bit is enough for most people. After thinking about Blackmagic RAW recently, I've now changed my mind. While large budget productions have much more control over varying conditions, solo shooters do not. A solo shooter has a lot to think about and it's more likely that a solo shooter is going to have to compromise on DR due to not having a gaffer on hand, or is going to forget to set the WB correctly for a shot due to lack of time and having so much to think about. If that shooter could now shoot RAW but in a flavour like BRAW which is easy for most modern computers to handle, can be shot to cheap SD cards and requires less drive space than many 10bit codecs, then why wouldn't they want that? For run and gun shooters, BRAW makes a lot of sense where CDNG raw didn't. BRAW doesn't make a bad shooter great, but it can be used to fix mistakes easily......Good shooters, bad shooters.....we all make mistakes every now and again. DBounce, this camera is obviously not for you and you have made that quite clear. I just don't understand why you feel the need to get on the Pocket4K thread and constantly argue about why the GH5 is better. I haven't felt the need to get on the GH5 thread and talk up the Pocket or shit can the GH5. Can we keep this thread about the Pocket4k, it's getting really tiring trawling through pages and pages of silly arguments. I have made a new thread.....feel free to continue the argument there please. I'd like to converse here and share information with others that want/ have the camera.

But many here shooting MFT like to use Speedboosters. Speedboosters are NOT weather sealed and a camera is only classed as weather sealed when both the body and compatible lens are both sealed. A speedbooster breaks that. I can make it even simpler..... use protection!

No the Pocket isn't but then, are your Veydra primes dust, splash and freeze resistant? No they are not. You're seriously not going to sacrifice your expensive lenses out in the weather unprotected just because your cheap body that will be outdates in a few years is weather sealed are you?

Ah, shame on me for having a few drinks and getting sucked back into this constant debate about what is better! Firstly, lets just get this out of the way. No camera is better! Is Panasonic still going to sell plenty of GH5's? YES! Is BMD still going to sell plenty of Pocket4K's? YES. Hasn't everyone learnt yet that no single camera is a 'GH5 Killer' or '>insert other camera model here< killer? Now that that's out of the way other than codec the Pocket4k has the following that the GH5s doesn't: - 5" 1080p screen - LUT support for viewing or also can be baked into recording - Timecode input - XLR input with phantom power capability - USB-C recording - CFast recording - Editable metadata for every shot/ file including lenses used, focal length etc etc in each file - Internal RAW - Soon to get, Internal Blackmagic RAW for 12 bit RAW to SD Cards. BMD have confirmed it will be getting BRAW. - Proper False Colour (not a silly LUT hack) - Arguably, but seemingly better colour science. - A far superior and easier to use menu system. This is a really underrated feature. Shooting with and operating the Pocket is just so much faster than any mirrorless camera. - Build quality is arguable too. The Pocket4k uses a polycarbonate / carbon fibre mix. My $6000 mountain bike that gets a heap of abuse has a frame that is also made of plastic/ carbon fibre! It's extremely tough stuff and lightweight. To the uninitiated, the lightness can be confused with 'cheap feeing'. - A far superior workflow from capture to edit. - Should I list all the features of DaVinci Resolve Studio here? I could go on and on. The Pocket4k is in it's infancy as a product. There is no reason why a battery grip couldn't be made for it. Warranty wise, I had issues back in the day with a GH3 and Panasonic were a PITA to deal with for warranty. Had an issue with an UMP and BMD promptly fixed it. Comparing a mirrorless hybrid to a camera designed more for cine use is really silly. You know most mirrorless cameras also have heaps of features that the Alexa doesn't? Alexa doesn't have AutoFocus, flash support, or NFC, or or dual SD card slots, or work on 100% of gimbals.........is it a bad camera? But where Alexa does win is image, codecs and ease of use for shooting video so it's a bit ridiculous to dismiss these in the Pocket4k as that is what is most important in a cine style camera. Video Codecs are NOT the priority in a hybrid mirrorless camera. While you may look at a spec sheet and see a long list of features on your mirrorless camera, I guarantee that a proper DP, editor or Colourist is not going to give two shits about 99% of those features. But hey, if the feature you find on the GH5 are important to you, then just buy a GH5. The great thing is, you can choose what works best for you. But ultimately, all those features do not contribute to a nice 'cinematic' (I hate that word) image.

One day you might realise that a forum is only as good as it's members. It's a two way street. Can't see where I shouted expletives at YOU. You have no respect for anyone here Andrew. Goodbye all, it was fun while it lasted