currensheldon

You can add the FX9 top handle and get four channels of audio. This camera is truly incredible and probably my next purchase from my C300 III unless Canon follows up with something equually as impressive quickly. The fact that this camera inherits almost everything from the most popular cinema camera in the world that doesn't have Arri in the name (the Sony Venice), while also adding features that its target audience (indie and doc owner operators) will love - namely IBIS, E-ND, downsampled 8.6k, Venice color and image, smaller form factor, etc - is pretty incredible. I mean, IBIS?! I did not expect to see IBIS and E-ND together for the first time ever in a cinema camera from Sony - but I'll take it. This is truly an incredible release. Probably the biggest cinema camera release (again, not called Arri) since the original Venice and the Red Monstro before that.

Just always having a gimbal is the issue. I like gimbals and the Ronin 4D, but it's not the look I'm always after. With that said, the camera design, with the dual handles, with focus on the handle itself, is brilliant. Same with the monitor mount, the wireless video transmitter placement, the battery (though I would prefer v-mount since I already have those). It's just a very well-designed camera. BUT, don't always want a gimbal.

What I meant by my favorite 4k, 24fps under $10k is ANY camera under $10k at ANY price. Cameras that I like the image more than the FX6 under $10k includes the C70, for sure, but also the C200 (in raw), S1H, S1, S5/S5 II, Pocket 6k, Pocket 4k, EVA-1, Z-Cam F6, Red Komodo, etc. Pretty much any camera that has come out in the last 4-years is better than the FX6/FX3/A7sIII image IMO. Sony's colors have improved and their DR and frame rates are very nice, but the image still looks digital to me and the colors a touch dead. LOVE the form factor of the FX6 though.

Agreed. I would argue for pure image quality at 24-30fps in 4k, the S1H is ahead of the FX6. I think the FX6 is just OK in the under $10k space in terms of IQ - not even in my top 10 cameras (no Sony is). BUT it does do a lot of other things well (favorite form factor, E-ND, 120fps 4k, etc), which might be more important for some jobs. But a full-frame, 6k-8k, L-Mount cinema camera that featured the same specs for $5-7k would be very enticing for a lot of people. I like that many new cameras went for just 4k (FX6, FX9, C300 III, C70) as you rarely need more than that, BUT that does leave the door open for someone like Panasonic to leapfrog them to the next level of 6k and 8k, and then to add features like internal ProRes, great 4k downsampled from 8k, etc. If they just put out an EVA-1 with an L-Mount, probably wouldn't move the needle, but a bigger leap would.

Agreed that the newer Sony lenses are a pretty perfect combination of size, speed, and quality. The newer DN Sigmas as well - that 24mm f1.4 for 500 grams and $800 is pretty incredible. Perhaps that's the way to go for L-Mount if you want something faster than the f1.8.

Oops. Didn't quite finish the post and it wouldn't let me edit. Here ya go: A lot of the niche manufacturers are doing some really amazing things with their cameras and Panasonic should take the same approach. Black Magic with their internal raw and giant 5" very bright screen. Kinefinity with their design, use of SSDs, electronic ND, dual battery plate, and great monitor solutions, Z-Cam F6 Pro with V-Mount (YESSS), etc. The Ronin 4D is also brilliantly designed and if it didn't have the gimbal on the front, I would buy it in a heartbeat. All of the major manufacturers use the exact same photo-first design (even the Sony FX3 and FX30 and Canon R5c), which just isn't great for video shooting (the Canon C70 is great, but sort of proves the point. Pain in the butt to hold that large of a camera out in front of you and use the dinky screen). Panasonic needs to think out of the box and expand the S1H into a video-creating monster for $4000 - $4500. In my mind that means mostly hardware upgrades (assuming they'll snag something like the A1 sensor): - Electronic ND that works with IBIS - Two Mini XLRs - TIMECODE (criminal that the S5 IIx doesn't have this) - Dedicated top handle (the FX30 does this great) - 4 - 4.5", 1200+ nit screen - you may still want to use an external monitor, but don't make it a necessity). Would also be great if this could be mounted to the side of the handle (like the Mavo Edge). - SDI port - Same PDAF as S5 II - Some other out-of-the-box accessories: a battery grip that has an SSD slot for external raw (rather than having to buy crappy Atomos monitor/recorders). Every time a manufacturer has caught up in the space they did something others were not doing (Sony with small, full-frame mirrorless cameras and then a focus on AF, Fuji with their retro design and aesthetics, Red with 4k and 8k, Black Magic with interesting features and low prices, etc). Panasonic is not going to win doing the same thing as everyone else, even if they do it better. They have to take a leap and offer something others won't. I hope they do.

For sure. Unfortunately, the Varicam and EVA-2 were from the cinema division and not the Lumix division and I think the cinema division is done. However, I still think Lumix could fill the same gap and kind of did with the BS1H, but it was missing too many features to snag any of the Red Komodo, Z-Cam, and other box-like camera pie. A lot of the niche manufacturers are doing some really amazing things with their cameras and Panasonic should take the same approach. Black Magic with their internal raw and giant 5" very bright screen. Kinefinity with their design, use of SSDs, electronic ND, dual battery plate, and great monitor solutions, Z-Cam F6 Pro with V-Mount (YESSS), etc. The Ronin 4D is also brilliantly designed and if it didn't have the gimbal on the front, I would buy it in a heartbeat. All of the major manufacturers use the exact same photo-first design (even the Sony FX3 and FX30 and Canon R5c), which just isn't great for video shooting (the Canon C70 is great, but sort of proves the point. Pain in the butt to hold that large of a camera out in front of you and use the dinky screen). Panasonic needs to think out of the box and expand the S1H into a video-creating monster for $4500. In my mind that means mostly hardware upgrades (assuming they'll snag something like the A1 sensor): - Internal NDs that work with IBIS

The difference in lenses is overall build and optical quality. The Panasonic 50mm f1.8 is vastly superior in every way to the Canon or Sony equivalents, especially in build and function. With that said, it would be good for Panasonic to have a $150-200 lens to get people into the system. I like the 40mm f2 or 40mm f2.8 pancake option. The Panasonic S5 was recently selling for $1500 in the USA and you got a free 50mm f1.8 or awhile and then they switched it to a free 85mm f1.8. I think they should just keep this pricing permanent. After a year or two of using the S5, those users (hooked now with lenses), will be all about upgrading to the S5 II or S2H or whatever comes next. But, like they recently said about "looking forward to the rapid expansion of Lumix systems," they need to expand very quickly and aggressively. PDAF is here, the excitement is up, they are better in almost every way compared to the other brands in terms of IQ, tools, IBIS, video assist tools, ergonomics, look/design, mid-tier lens quality, high-end lens quality (for 24-70mm, 50mm f1.4, etc), etc - I really think Panasonic just have better cameras than all of the competition outside of telephoto lenses and AF - but now the AF is comparable to Sony and easily better than the video AF on Canon's R5c. They need to spend the next 6-9 months releasing at least 2-3 more bodies. Specifically a VERY video focused video at NAB in April (like BS2H or S2H with updated stacked sensor, high-frame rates, electronic ND (please!), timecode, and (probably though I don't care too much) 8k) and then a 47-61 megapixel S5 IIr. A 24mm and 85mm f1.4 in the 500-650 gram range would also be very welcome.

I just don't agree that the L-Mount is all that weak on lenses. The f1.8 prime set from Panasonic is incredibly and their f2.8 zooms are as well (though big, heavy), plus great f4 pro lenses (16-35, 70-200) and nice affordable, high-quality lenses (24-105mm, 70-300mm, and now the new 14-28mm). And Sigma has an incredible line up of DG DN lenses now, whether you're looking for f1.4 primes (20mm, 24mm, 35mm, 85mm) or f2 primes (20mm, 24mm, 35mm, 65mm) or unique/small lenses (24mm f3.5, 45mm f2.8, 90mm f2.8) small but fast zooms (16-28mm f2.8, 28-70mm f2.8) or the standard 24-70mm f2.8 and 14-24mm f2.8 zooms. Agree that Sigma needs an 50mm f1.4 DG DN and Panasonic could use a couple more f1.4 primes (24mm and 85mm), but it's a pretty darn full lineup and you could do almost every type of work with native L-Mount lenses - easy. My problem is not knowing which to buy - The Sigma "i" series or the Panasonic f1.8 set - both are amazing.

It basically seems like Sony has been holding out on PDAF for Panasonic cameras for years and they are finally letting them license PDAF on a sensor that is older and that Sony will probably never use again - so why not milk it for some more money since Panasonic's only big gripe against it is the bad AF? To be fair, that sensor is gorgeous on Panasonic cameras (not so much Sony's), and the S1H still has the best 24fps IQ of any mirrorless camera out there. IF Panasonic can dramatically improve the HDMI latency (full-sized, yay!), add internal ProRes, and the AF is as reliable as some of the competition, The S5 II will be very tempting - especially around $2000-2200... It's basically an S1H but much smaller, cheaper, better codec (ProRes), and much better AF (ostensibly). And when you look at it that way, sounds pretty sweet to me. -- I am curious what they are going to do with the S2H (or S1H II) though, as that camera will have to feature 120fps 4k, no crop, probably 8k, internal ProRes, and so many other video goodies. It almost seems like they should just make a BS2H and soup-it up to the max and go all out on video and then the S5 II can be their hybrid.

The experience of shooting is important to me and I do not like shooting with the Pocket 4k or 6k. Battery life is a pain, ergonomics are awful, don't like EF mount, want IBIS, prefer full-frame, like Panasonic's IQ more, etc. Red Komodo has a lot of the same issues and its IQ is wayyyy below other Red cameras. I'm sure Panasonic will come out with something soon, so fine with waiting.

Panasonic makes my favorite cameras, by FAR. And they have my favorite IQ under $10k (except maaaybe the C70). And the best IBIS. I also love their f1.8 prime set. That's fantastic. But they do need to get something out this year (September/October) before I go all-in on buying a set of lenses. I had the S1H and loved it - still do. If they could give me an S1H II with some nice upgrades (mini XLR port to go with a 3.5mm jack, internal NDs, ProRes recording, a 12-bit HD/4k profile perhaps?), I'm all in for the next 3-4 years.

It only makes sense as a monitor, I think. All the newest monitors are clunky and thick. Even SmallHD has abandoned their phone-like slim profile of the 502 Bright. An iPhone sized monitor would be perfect. Just need 2000 nits, a good UU, and a 10-12 hour internal battery.

Yes, I'd say it's pretty significant. 12-bit Raw on the C300 just gives an added depth and richness to the image that 10-bit can't achieve. I was always amazed by the C200's raw and found it pretty stunning, but the DGO sensor adds a whole extra level of usability. This update makes the C70 probably the finest cinema camera under $9k. I also love that it's an even lighter version of raw (645mbps), which will make it way more useful in a variety of situations. Time and tests will tell, but I would think the 12-bit image should be a pretty big jump in IQ - and that's saying something coming from that sensor.

I CAN'T WAIT. Genius. Hope it lives up to my giant expectations.

I have an S1H and love it. Amazing IQ. starting from scratch, I’d probably go for the box for modularity and adaptability on gimbals and for looooong run times on cinema batteries. As well as easier mounting and rigging for external monitors/recorders. but, it is weird that Panasonic just didn’t call this the S2H or EVA-2 and go full on update - internal NDs, new sensor to give us 4k 120fps, better RS, full-frame slow-mo in 4K or 6k, whatever their new AF will be, etc. same specs as two years ago while Sony and Canon have been pumping out all the latest tech and numerous bodies in the same time frame is a bit frustrating. This camera will still have a better image than anything those companies put out under $15k, but there are other considerations too (frame rates, no crop, internal raw, etc). I’m guessing that camera will come in a mirrorless body in the next year, but I really would like to have it in this box form factor or something like an FX6.

Some interesting tidbits here. I don't think you'll see any of the usual three (Sony, Canon, Panasonic) doing things like SSD recording (like Sigma and BM), but I hope I'm wrong. For things like that and internal NDs, I do think Panasonic would be the first to do it in a mirrorless form factor, just like they were the first to do 10-bit 422 (GH5) and timecode (S1H). I think Panasonic has to come out with something big for their next cinema line. They have a dedicated fanbase for people who put IQ, functionality, video features (pros) above hype and specs (Sony). BUT, they still need to deliver high-end specs in order to stay alive. For the GH6 and S2H (or whatever), I think that means timecode, internal NDs of some sort, and some form of low-profile raw recording (like an SSD or some sort of attachment as @Andrew Reid mentioned to technically make it "external"). Even including CinemaDNG Raw internal would be fine because SlimRaw with the Sigma FP is actually a pretty amazing combo. But the FP just lacks so many professional and usability features that it's not quite worth the hassle. For the EVA-2, has to be full-frame, L-Mount, some form of 12-bit 444 or raw internally, high frame rates, and, stylistically, more than an FS5/FX6-copy. I'd still vote for a full-frame BGH1-style and surpass the Komodo where it falls short (full-frame sensor, high frame rates without a crop, dual XLRs). The screens on most cinema cameras are crap anyway (outside of C300/C500, which is at least usable), so just forego it altogether.

Agree with all of this. A new $10-15k Varicam LT should compete with FX9/C300/C500, but they really should put out a $5-7k box style camera unlike anything else right now (what the S1H should have been, frankly). Agreed, They should also ditch the external recording monitors and just do it through USB-C like the Sigma FP. That’s a huuuuge difference to recording raw. definitely a space for a 6k full frame model with all the bells and whistles (NDs, XLR) in that space. Let’s hope they fill it.

With the EVA-1 thread popping up, I thought it would be a good time to revisit this thread since I would think Panasonic would have some cinema cameras coming out this fall. All of the above comments remain true about needing a feature-packed EVA-2, but, as I mentioned in the other thread, I think Panasonic now should completely change their approach from a "more professional FS5" like they did with the EVA-1 and instead do something that none of the other major manufacturers are doing. They should replicate what they did with the BGH-1 but with a full-frame sensor and cutting edge tech and give us a full-frame modular camera. Z Cam and the Komodo have proved that people like this approach as it's easy to rig up, great for flying on gimbals and drones, and very, very versatile. But it has to include internal NDs and XLRs, which the other brands don't include. I've almost bought a BGH1 a few times because I just love the concept. But all my lenses are full-frame. Come on Panny.

Panasonic is easily my favorite consumer video brand. They have my favorite image, favorite tools, and the best approach for video-creators, in my opinion. The EVA-1 had a beautiful image and I did own it for some time. I agree that it really needed an MFT mount. The FS7 was so successful not just because of its specs, but because almost EVERYONE loved being able to use a speedbooster and their EF lenses on it. Same with the FS5. I knew a lot of owners of these cameras and only recently have people really started using native glass on them. With an MFT mount and the same sensor, users could have done the exact same thing on the EVA-1, while also having the option of using a 1.5x (give or take) MFT crop to use their MFT lenses and keep it small and light. And it did have a 5.7k sensor, so that would have been plenty for pixel-to-pixel 4k with an MFT lens. -- At this point, I think Panasonic should really avoid going after the C300s and FS7/FX9s of the world and give us something completely different with the EVA-2 (don't even call it that). If they put out an EVA-2 with the normal "new" specs (120fps in 4k, HDMI raw, maaybe 8k in h265), then I don't think they'll pull many FX6/C300/C70 owners away. Instead, give us a full-frame BGH-2 with all of those great specs, internal NDs, XLRs, and shake it up a bit. Z-Cam and the Komodo has shown that people really like this form factor.

Totally. I'm about to ditch Premiere for Resolve and want to use B-Raw for fluidity's sake. I can get that out of the S1H and recorder or BM Cameras (which I do not like), so hoping the next generation of Panasonic cameras have BRaw built in. that would be huge for them. If they add BRaw and internral NDs in the GH6 and S2H, they might just gain quite a few more adopters.

If they are sticking with 4k (which is fine if it is downsampled from 6k), then they really need to soup it up in other ways: - Raw to SSD (hopefully BRaw or ProRes Raw) - Internal electronic ND (this would be huge) - Some nice internal codecs like ProRes - 180-240fps in 10-bit 4k - Best IBIS in the business (which the GH5 had) - Full V-Log, 13-14 stops of dynamic range - Timecode! (which I assume it will have like S1H) - Great video AF - either ToF or PDAF. Too many (not that much more expensive) full frame cameras can do 120fps in 4k, 8k, raw over HDMI, etc to just put out a solid update. Needs to be include some BIG upgrades (Raw and NDs would be very attention-grabbing). The GH5 was pretty revolutionary in its specs, but it faced no competition in the 10-bit, 4k, IBIS, XLR capture arenas when it was released. Now, not so much.

Oh yea and the fan! Of course. I’m sure it will be even louder in 8k.

Very strange they didn’t update the design a bit. The off centered battery causes tons of mounting problems, the screen isn’t that bright for $1600, and no SDI is very strange since these are basically raw recorders now (which wasn’t entirely the case when the first Ninja V came out). Pretty lazy upgrade.

Being only electronic shutter, that's been my main concern with buying the FP (or FP-L) as a hybrid. The rolling shutter on the FP-L does look pretty awful and, since it doesn't have a mechanical shutter, that would translate to photos as well. Maybe not a big deal for landscapes or real estate, but definitely a problem for anything that is slightly moving - which is a lot of things. And I've always had bad luck with electronic shutter in mixed lighting or artificial lighting with banding and other issues. Any original FP users that can comment on RS performance? I love the concept of these cameras and would love to snag an FP sometime. Love that they are different, modular, industrial, and have features no other cameras have, but the 2-3 quirks (mainly RS, line-skipped HDMI raw, and ES in photo mode), makes me hesitant.