currensheldon

What are the chances the C200 will get more compressed raw options rather than 10-bit 422? I'd much rather have this. All these new raw codecs are great, but I don't really want to ProRes Raw because I don't use FCPX and Black Magic Raw is, IMO, way better due to having actually manageable file sizes, but I rarely use Da Vinci (though thinking about switching if enough editors I know switch as well - they probably won't). Weirdly enough, Canon's Raw Light is the most useable due to compatibility with Premiere. But, like ProRes Raw, isn't that helpful in the storage game. But if Canon decides to update their Raw Light with different levels of compression (5:1, 8:1, and 12:1) and somehow can get that into the EOS R's raw out, things become very interesting. The EVA-1 + S1 is the combo I'm currently leaning towards, but these updates may switch it back to C200 + EOS R. Would also be great to see ProRes Raw get some more compression rates as well. But wider compatibility across editing platforms is way more important - the Atomos Ninja V ProRes Raw recording just isn't that interesting if it can only be used in FCPX.

External raw would be great on the EOS R, but I'm wondering if Canon will update their Cinema Raw Lite to add different compression ratios - 8:1 and 12:1. That would make the whole "C200 needs 10-bit codecs!!!" argument moot, since 8:1 is about the same size as ProRes 422 and 12:1 is quite a bit smaller than the usual h264 10-bit codecs on the GH5/EVA-1/C300II. Perhaps Canon will now that ProRes Raw and BM Raw are out and about. That would be HUGE for me, as C200 Raw is still massive file sizes.

Yea that could be. The weird thing is, I would easily pay more for a 4K Ninja Star recorder that hs the Ninja V recording options than fo the Ninja V itself. Having a monitor is nice, but I just don't have enough trouble shooting with the GH5 or EOS R screen to make the extra bulk and the 3-4 giant batteries I need to carry around with me, charge every night, etc worth it. But I would pay good money (more than what the Ninja V is going for) to JUST have the recording options and no monitor. Just a small mount on the side of a cage that would still keep the general footprint small and the power draw would probably be close to 5 watts/hour instead of 20-25.

I have also read that Sigma only guarantees that their own lenses will work, but seems like everyone believes that Canon EF lenses and other EF lenses will work as well. Possible it's something like that? Basically, "we can only guarantee that our products will work as suggested" but others could?

With NAB now RIGHT around the corner, thought I would fire this thread back up. Canon - Looks like Canon may not have a big camera update, but instead update the C200 with that middle codec and add external raw to the EOS R - both of which are fine by me. Hoping they go the route of Black Magic and add a couple more compression levels to their Raw Lite (which is close to 3:1, I believe). 8:1 and 12:1 would be huge and would instantly make the C200 even more incredible. Currently the file sizes are just too massive for so much of the work I do. Panasonic - Not much in the rumor mill. I'd guess a price and release date for their 10-25mm f1.7 and maybe a GH6 development announcement. Hoping for an EVA-2 or another cinema camera with L-Mount in the $4-6k range. A mini EVA. Black Magic - Their big announcement (G2) has been announced. Hoping for an update to their external recorders and same partnerships as Atomos so we can record Black Magic raw out of mirrorless cameras rather than ProRes Raw. Atomos - Have had a flurry of announcements the last couple of months, but maybe they're saving something very cool for NAB. Hoping a 4K Ninja Star recorder so we don't have to slap a big monitor that eats batteries on our mirrorless cams. -- Could be an exciting year for mirrorless updates and raw recording. Not really expecting many big cinema camera announcements, but we'll see.

The Panasonic S1 does have all of that now. It's sort of weird how much people have been ripping on the S1 - No, it's not a full-frame GH5, but with the upcoming V-Log/10-bit update, it's pretty darn close. Every other manufacturer gives us internal 8-bit 420 (Sony, Nikon, Canon), big crops (Canon), no 60 fps (everyone), etc. Add on that Panasonic has the best ergonomics for video by far (in my opinion) and a great XLR adapter, and you have a very capable camera.

Another crazy rumor: https://www.canonrumors.com/feature-update-announcements-coming-to-the-canon-eos-r-and-canon-cinema-eos-c200-ahead-of-nab/ - C200 with 422 in 4K (and possibly the elusive 10-bit 4K codec?!). If Canon puts 422 10-bit in the C200 (or a heavier compression ofCanon raw lite, like 8:1 or 12:1) and adds external raw recording to the EOS R, that would be a huge step for them. Need to get that EOS R crop down to at least a Super35 crop. Hoping Panasonic gets us an EVA-2 and raw on the S1 soon. That would be my preferred setup, but I do love the C200.

The high frame rates in 4.6k and 4k are huge for many users as well. RED has been the only real option for high-quality 4k+ images over 60fps. I've used a Red on a few projects because I needed 4K and also 100fps+ - would have much rather gone with the Ursa Mini G2 if it was available at the time.

From Cinema5Ds review, the IBIS looks very impressive. Sony's IBIS was almost unusable and jittery and weird - the GH5 is truly on another level. So, hoping the S1 is closer to the GH5. But it seems like Panasonic knows what it is doing in this respect.

In the mirrorless world, It's been a pretty consistent series of disappointing releases since the GH5, really (for every manufacturer) - especially when it comes to video. The GH5 and GH5s are still the most specced out cameras in the space. Canon RF-mount has the amazing variable ND adapter (and it is awesome), but I've been pretty underwhelmed with the video quality after shooting on GH5 for two years (besides lovely colors). Sony and Panasonic have otherwise been consistently pushing out 8-bit codec mirrorless cameras. Nikon/Canon offer 10-bit out, but sort of defeats the purpose of a small camera if you need to slap a recorder onto it. Looking forward to the full version of the Panasonic S1 as I think that's our best bet for a decent upgrade in internal video quality. Fuji has been exciting and close to putting all the pieces together. Even the cinema updates and new lines (FS7, FS5, C200) have been pretty underwhelming (outside of C200 raw, which is awesome). EVA-1 was great but with a couple tough flaws. Black Magic has pushed a couple amazing cameras, but again with some serious flaws like battery life (Pocket 4K) - though the Ursa Mini Pro G2 looks great. -- Hoping to see some bigger shifts in the next year like we saw 3-4 years ago with Sony and Panasonics torrid release rate. I think it will come in the GH6 (with its internal NDs, 120fps 4K, 5.7k multi-aspect sensor, GH5s low light capabilities) and some form of mini cinema camera (C100, FS53, EVA-2) in the $4-7k space. -- 2018/2019 definitely feels like a big transition period for all manufacturers, with the three biggest all having new lines, new mounts, very few native lenses, and new technology to work with. I'm sure it will all sort itself out and we'll see some great stuff in the next 12-24 months.

I'd definitely hold on to my MFT glass and cameras if the GH6 had 10 - 12 bit internal recording (BM Raw or ProRes Raw), 120fps in 4K, and internal NDs (the last one being the most important). As well as the IBIS of the GH5 and the low light capabilities of the GH5s. Throw on the 10-25mm f1.7 and I could use that camera for almost everything. Some f0.95 autofocus primes would also be great.

I would love one of these types of cameras (Q, RX1, Fuji X100) that has great video specs. Often walking around without all my professional tools, there's a great shot that could be used for a future project - would be nice to be able to capture it. I can't justify the price of the Leica Q2 and doubt the DCI 4K will be all that great, but it would be awesome if Fuji put the X-T3 video specs in the next X100 iteration. Since those cameras have an internal ND and are so portable, would be nice to always have with you.

And I think it's a pretty good one. I still prefer other manufacturers' cameras, but the Ursa G2 + Pocket 4K is pretty close. For me, most of my headaches come in the form of workflow now, with different codecs, resolutions, bit-rates, etc being all over the map on other manufacturer's lineups. Black Magic is really streamlining things - I'd love to have those two cameras, shoot 8:1 or 12:1 BM Raw, which has amazingly smooth playback in Da Vinci on my Macbook Pro (tested it yesterday), and then hand off to a colorist or do a quick grade myself. Brilliant. And all in 12-bit raw capture and native editing. Despite neither camera being my favorite form factor, it's almost worth it for the streamlined workflow alone.

Still lookin for a cinema camera A-Cam and a mirrorless-sized B-Cam that has the same codec, resolutions, color, etc. Black Magic seems to be pretty darn close with BM Raw and the Ursa Mini Pro G2 + Pocket 4K. Neither are my favorite form factor, but BM Raw, in my opinion, is the most modern and robust codec out there right now. Amazing you can get 12-bit raw files in file sizes way smaller than useful ProRes files. Black Magic's color is also great and both cameras can create a really nice image. Would also love if both cameras had the same mount, but adapters work pretty well. Interested to see what comes at NAB, as a Canon RF mount cinema camera (XC-20 or C100 III) would be great.

Holy smokes. 150fps in DCI 4K - Geeesh. They're in Red's territory now. Pretty amazing at that price point. Black Magic is going all out the last couple of years, from cameras to codecs to editing to color grading. You could just use Black Magic products from start to finish. Black Magic Raw is one of the best things to come out since RedCode Raw and it was also just announced that it is available in the Pocket 4K. Ursa Mini Pro G2 + Pocket 4K is a pretty great combination for A and B Cam and combined they are cheaper than a single C200 or C300 or FS7.

THIS is what is needed. I don't want a monitor, I just need the HDMI recording. And I definitely don't need a recorder that emits sound and draws 20 watts of power in an HOUR. Makes it more of a battery problem than the Pocket 4K. For my current EOS R setup, I'd love a Ninja Star. I use my old one for 10-bit HD, but would really like it for 4K. Atomos needs to get on it, as there are plenty of affordable monitor-only products out there, but ZERO 4K recorders without a massive monitor and power draw. Hoping for NAB 2019. Or maybe Black Magic can deliver and give us BM Raw!

Definitely an EF to RF speedbooster would be awesome. That would really help with the 4K crop when needed!

Yea a Panasonic MFT video camera with the GH5s low-light sensor + IBIS would be awesome. Slap that 10-25mm f1.7 on there and you'd be good to go for 80-90% of all needs. Add in a speedbooster, and you'd have a virtual 1x crop - or pretty close to it if the multi-aspect sensor only has a 1.8 or 1.9 crop.

It should also be noted that many of these documentaries took 2-3 years to produce, shoot, edit, and release - and then another year or so to be nominated for an Oscar. So, this is not a reflection on what cameras documentaries are shot on in 2019, but rather what people wanted to shoot on in 2014 to 2016. That doesn't mean that three years from now, all docs will be shot on Sonys, but just a point that it's not really about what is released now. With that said, even in 2019, Canon has the nicest looking image and the most reliable products in the doc-budget space. I wouldn't be surprised if the next few years many doc films are still shot on Canon cameras. However, they need to be careful because many people in the doc space want to shoot on Netflix-approved cameras just in case Netflix wants their film - low budget or not. So crippling cameras to not have 10-bit 422 could cost them in a few years in the awards space. On my last 3-4 shoots, the client requested 422 10-bit 4K - which I use an EVA-1 for. All Canon has is the C300II and it's an amazingly lovely image, but the design is terrible and the general specifications are starting to get a bit old. Canon just needs to understand that the C300II should die, release a souped-up C300 III and charge as much as they want for it, while also simultaneously releasing a compact C100 III with the 4K 10-bit 24-30fps that documentaries want and sometimes are required to have - anywhere under $7k. I WANT to use Canon but have been using the EVA-1 and FS7 more on shoots because it's required. As a filmmaker/DP, it is frustrating to like a specific image (like Canon) and not be able to use it because it doesn't have the required specs. -- Canon's Lineup Should Be: C300 Mark III (THE BEAST) - 8K upgradeable sensor, 60-96fps in 4K, internal raw, 10-12 bit at all resolutions - $15,000 For: Anyone who wants the highest quality Canon image. C200 (THE RAW CAMERA) - An affordable internal raw camera. Great B-Cam to C300 productions that need a camera on gimbal at all times - $7500 For: short docs, music videos, commercial producers. C100 Mark III (THE DOC/BROADCAST CAMERA) - 4K 10-bit 422 in HD and 4K. 120fps 10-bit in HD. 30-60fps in 4K. - $5499 For: One-man band crews, documentary filmmakers, owner-operators. -- Seems fairly obvious to me. Yes, the C300II will die, but if they don't let it die than I think they're going to lose out once Panasonic, Black Magic, and Sony release their next generation EVA, Ursa Mini, FS5, and FS7. ANY cinema/video camera released without 10-bit 4K from this point forward is a complete oversight.

You might be right, but we haven't really had a major sub $20k video camera announcement since C200/EVA-1, so it's definitely been awhile. It seems like so much progress has been made in codecs (BM Raw, ProRes Raw, H265) and mirrorless tech (X-T3, S1) that it would be prime time to release some great sub $10k video cameras.

This is definitely a good start, but if Sigma really wants to add something to the L-Mount, their DSLR port over lenses aren't all that interesting. The adapter/converter is way more helpful. I'm a big fan of Panasonic and the S1 is very interesting. I would love it if Sigma starts doing for the L-Mount what Zeiss did for the E-Mount - namely two beautiful lens lineups that are small, lightweight, and sharp. A smaller f2 lineup with manual focus (like the Loxia) and hard stops would be great. As would a Batis-like lens lineup - compact and powerful. Leica will always be uber expensive and it seems Panasonic is going for high-end sharpness - so Sigma could find a sweet spot in making f2 versions of their Art Primes and size them accordingly (300-400 grams). Will probably wait a year to see what Panasonic does in the L-Mount video space, with lens releases, and what Sigma does with lenses that are actually designed for the L-Mount. But being a big Panasonic fan, hoping they can do well here.

Yea the DVX200 has always been appealing - and one with interchangeable lenses would be great. As for Canon C100, I think you're probably right. 10-bit 422 in 4K is me just being hopeful. More likely it will have the same specs as the 4-year old FS5 (10-bit in HD, 8-bit in 4K) but without the SDI raw support. Granted, I'd take 8-bit Canon image over any 10-bit Sony image, but many clients or potential projects want to make sure they're filming in Netflix approved standards - just in case. The only way that the C100 would get 10-bit 422 would be if the C300 Mark III came out soon with a massive spec jump, such as 6K-8k, 60-120fps in 4K, internal raw, etc - as of now, the C300 only sells because people love the Canon image (as I do) and it's the ONLY affordable-ish Canon camera that has the required 10-bit 422. If they want to keep selling that camera, a $6k 10-bit 4K C100 Mark III would eat all of its sales.

There are definitely a lot of camera models in the space that have never been updated or are due for an update: - Canon C100 - this is probably the biggest because it was so popular. Would love an even more compact version. A MarkIII would need that 10-bit 422 4K that the C200 lacks. - Panasonic AF100 - The GH5 and GH5s have been such massive hits, putting those specs into an AF200 body (sleeker and smaller) with all that comes with a video camera would be awesome to see. - JVC LS300 - Never used it myself, but love the MFT mount + Super35mm sensor idea. Would be great to see an update. Sony is really the only current manufacturer who has a video camera in this space (FS5). Nikon and Fuji have never had one. Black Magic has a lot of random cameras under $5k that don't really seem to sit anywhere (or are at least non traditional), but a mini Ursa Mini Pro would fit in this space. I really think a Canon camera is the only likely one to be introduced this year (C100 or XC-20RF ILC), but would be great to see 2-3 new bodies in this space.

If Panasonic is going to keep using the MFT mount for the foreseeable future, I think it would be crazy to not release an MFT mini cinema camera. I can't believe someone hasn't yet. Basically stick the GH5s sensor (with G9 IBIS) and specs into a body the size of the FS5 with the MFT mount. With the forthcoming 10-25mm f1.7, that automatically becomes one of the most useable doc cameras. I like the idea of putting a Super35mm sensor in there as well (like the LS300) and then speedboosters would give you a full frame equivalent FOV/DoF. But as long as they release some more f1.7 - f2 fast zooms, 4/3 sensor is fine too. No matter how good they get, until mirrorless cameras have internal NDs and quality audio, they do not replace dedicated video cameras - no matter if the image is just as good or not better. The hole in the $3-7k video camera market is huge. It's been 4 years (FS5) since anyone has released a new camera in this space (the II was basically a firmware update, so not sure that counts). Hoping Panasonic, Canon, or Fuji fill it soon.

I used the FS5 for a couple of years and loved the form factor, variable ND, E-Mount, and pretty much everything about the camera other than the image (which of course is most important) - and the internal 4K isn't great at all. Hoping Canon, Fuji, or Black Magic challenge Sony in this mini video camera space. A Black Magic pocket 4K with a more video-camera style, internal NDs, Sony NPF batteries, and XLRs would be great: a mini Ursa Pro (actually mini). Even the same sensor, Dual ISO, image quality, etc - the Pocket 4K is pretty far ahead of the FS5 in 4K image quality, and at $1295. So a video camera version in the $3-5k would be great and also doesn't seem too much like a stretch. BM Raw is definitely my current favorite codec, so would love to see it implemented in more cameras as well.