Geoff_L

Yes true, and economics is a field I know nothing about so I won't presume anything ahah ? But still, in your examples, canon and fujifilm are deliberate sales, cashback etc. Here, with Nikon, it is just the market prices going down or some shops that deliberately cut the price in a surprising way... But as you said, maybe the point is to establish a users basis, pushing the adoption of existing Nikon dslr users, and quickly move to a 2nd generation that will be really above competition (which the z6 already is in a lot of areas). Anyway, this is good news for us customers ? Oh, and we can add to your examples the flash sales of blackmagic some years ago, with a pocket cinema camera almost sold for half its regular price (if I remember !) ! We can dream the same thing with the bmpcc4k...

Maybe Andrew was thinking about the quick collapse of prices, which could reflect difficulties for Nikon to sell them ? The camera cost around 3000€ (between 2800 and 3000, depending on stores) with kit lens and adapter, back in November when it was released here (and when I bought it). Now, you can buy a brand new one with kit lens for around 1800€. In the meantime, the direct competitors do not move a lot : A7 iii, which is older, is still around 2300€, body only, and with summer sales it cost around 1900/2000€, still body only ; while the EOS R still cost 2500€, body + adapter, and 2000/2100€ with summer rebates. In the end, no matter why it collapses like that, as Andrew said the good thing is it can be grabbed for a pretty great price (which will be better on top of that with the coming firmware !)

You think it would solve our desperate quest for a low cost convenient raw camera ? ?

Yes, we are proud of our Gilles ? Not directly related, but we have got a Sci-fi author called Alain Damasio, who wrote absolutely mind blowing books, tinted with a big Deleuze inspiration. And, whoa (oh, by the way, as I am not really armed for English conversations - no, do not relate this to the fact I am French ! -, I just discovered the correct spelling of "whoa" : https://writingexplained.org/whoa-or-woah-difference ; anyway, nobody cares, sorry), what an experience ! End of off-topic !

DEAL ALERT !! If you live in Switzerland or near the boundary : Interdiscount website The Z6 + 24-70 f4s at 1782€ (today exchange rate) in a reputable store, til the end of the week ! The same price as the Fuji X-T3 + 18-55, woah, crazy ! In 6 months, we will be able to buy one and enter the EOSHD cheap camera challenge ? Thinking about it, when the ProresRaw update will be available, it will be a damn awesome deal !!

@mercer yes it is annoying.... but as I do not depend on cameras to live (for the moment ? ), that finally ends up with only a cameraless period with no other consequence than being forced to watch tons of footage of the next cameras I could purchase ahah ! And the next big trip where the camera will be important is scheduled for next September/October. Yes you are right, I am always amazed by the 5D series capability to hold their value ! Compared to other brands, it is really a great thing.

XT3 + bmpcc4k would be a great combo too... less cumbersome than BM + 5D for my needs. But probably out of budget. With that being said, I really like the tokina 11-16 f2.8 and the sigma 18-35 f1.8, and both can be shared between the XT3 and bmpcc4k. Plus, the budget could be less stretched than buying the same focals for a full frame...

Yes, I do not know what to think about the reliability, as I came across different opinions. Some warn everybody after they lost their footage... others say they never have any troubles ! But I think I read more of the latter. Interesting that you keep your XT30 and not the XT3 . Both are on my list, and If I go the bmpcc4k route, I'll need a still camera !

I am exactly thinking the same... For still + video, could be a good combo. Lenses and batteries can be shared, even if it appears to be better going external on the BM. Given the prices of the used 5D, it roughly makes the pack at the same level of the others hybrids (if keeping the BM accessories to a minimal). I wonder something, maybe @The ghost of squig has an answer : I see everybody rigging the bmpcc4k (with quite big rigs for some), which is, given its purpose as a cinema camera, a logical thing. But, what if you try to use it with the minimal accessories, e.g only a smallrig cage (+ a t5 ssd, or only a fast sd card) and a little mic ? I believe the battery life is only 20min, but if you have 4 or 5 canon batteries with you and a powerbank to charge them in an emergency, could it work to avoid the big external powering solutions ? I know it depends on the shooting style and the type of work, but, still, I wonder ?

Oh, 30min of footage is not that bad since I only shoot really short sequences. I still had in mind the 12min, so this is quite good. I think the limit is in the offloading of CF card while on the field, but I could find a solution. Yes, I understand for the XT3, GH5 and P4K ; the image coming out from 5D ML seems to be a good cure for GAS ?. I don't even own one, but all the videos I see from it really magnetize my attention... I have to reason myself and think about all the "plus" and ease of use offered by all the available hybrids, to help me balance the decision ! But, still, that mojo... ahah ! Concerning the Z6, I had to sell it due to financial reasons (dead car... Had to prioritize my tight budget), despite being really pleased with it. I was eager to see the ProRes Raw update being available, but, now I think about it, I'm not sure it would has been a good match with my type of use. My camera lives mostly in a bag, and I pull it out during our activities to record short moments. We often encounter harsh conditions, hence the "live in the bag" thing, so I fear it would be a pain to add an external recorder on top of that. The last thing I want is to worry too much about the gear, and I try to avoid having the camera obstructing the rest. That's where the 5D becomes interesting, despite the negative points : internal raw, mojo, really tough to endure crappy weather... Best thing would be to have a 5D and a small hybrid to complement it. Well, I guess I have to write everything on paper and try to make the most reasonable choice

Oh, I did not know that was his video, great ! He seems to be interested in the future z6 raw capabilities ; I guess when you taste raw video it is hard to move away from it. Yes I can understand why it not for everybody ; I use my camera mainly during outdoor activities, especially multi days/weeks hiking trip, and battery charging + memory space is always the big downside. So, while I am in love with the 5D iii ML image, I guess I would have problems to deal with the massive files while out in the middle of nowhere ? (I checked for a on location back-up solution for CFcard, but it seems to be quite a pain). With that being said, the M50 is really tempting. Mercer, I thing I read you are closely keeping on eye on cameras like the Fuji XT3, to complement your 5D. Do you consider the M50, especially with the Speedbooster ?

Yes, I mostly used the rear lcd and rarely the evf. But now I am thinking about, I remember having noticed a difference of colors between both, especially during sunsets in the mountains, and with snowy landscapes (the snow felt different while switching from the evf for photo, and the rear lcd for video). Maybe it was the same as you, but I interpreted low contrast as a changing in colors...

Could it be related to the brightness of the evf ? I remember at first I struggled with the settings. One thing I am sure, is this evf bring daylight when it is dark ; that was truly useful !

OK... now I am interested ! There is special sales for the M50 right now : 400€ body only ! 150€ off, which pay the viltrox speedbooster... And MPB.com has a eos M for 110€ ahah. Might be good, to try experimenting with Ml. Ah, and they got 5d's iii in good conditions for around 1050€ Hm... I should not had read this sub forum ?

Oh yeah, after browsing the eos M post, I checked the prices and it was quite tempting ! I'm gonna read about the m50 ; I forgot it since Andrew's article on the first of april !

Yes, exactly ! Evf, form factor, all the small "gadgets" that make your life easier... would be hard to be back to the big tanks ? Some guys on the magic lantern forum seem to progress with the EOS R. Would be great, but also could take years to come (if it ever comes !)...

I do not know if it has already been posted (sorry if that is the case) : I may be able to buy a camera during the next months, after I let my z6 go (financial reasons, not the camera...). As I won't be able to spend a lot of money, I started to watch a lot of videos from moderate budget cameras and... no matter what I watch, I always come back to the 5D iii... From all the cameras I am thinking about, I really like the image from the og bmpcc, I like the new bmpcc4 too (a little less though), but I am really love the 5D one ; wow, what a mojo ! The best thing to happen would be a final release for the 5D IV !

Aaaaaahh it was Joe, sorry... "lol". You jump on everybody here when someone dare to question something concerning the z6, and with a pathetic, disturbing way. You should browse your past interactions with others here, on many forum posts, maybe it will give you a hint on your problem.... I've got a mean spirit with strange internet paladins like you, that read nothing of others, except what you want to read in it, and attack blindly to defend... I don't even know what ahah. I was browsing the entire post concerning the pana, by interest for the subject (yes I love pana... maybe you will interpret that as an attack toward the z6?), and I came across one of your glorious arguing...See, the problem of living smelling tracks everywhere... Anyway, you were on my block list for a while, so I normally can't read you, but this time I was browsing and loggued off... My bad, won't happen again !

Man, you are helpless. I thought you were out since many days in order to offer yourself a well needed cure.... too bad.... And that is a pity you still don't get my hyperbola, as you seem to like them : Do you have a link that shows the technical reality of the "x24734 crop" of the eosr you talked about ? See, that is easy to play the dumb game instead of arguing, right ?

I remember he left himself, without being banned, and then wrote an article about Andrew https://jonpais.wordpress.com/2018/10/17/andrew-reid-is-an-idiot/ I now often come across his messages on dpreview and, as yesterday, on sonyalpharumors, where he got shot by others, for... being himself as usual ahah

I missed the "raw" discussions between you, Mercer and co, that I enjoyed for months and months... Coming back with this is so great. And I was thinking about those three cameras, for when I will be able to buy one again. Thank you !

Guys, you should not answer, seriously... he killed the z6 forum post with the same attacking, illogical-disturbing behavior, like a palladin jumping on everyone for... hm, yes, good question, why ? The manual to handle the guy is in the name : "skip".

Guys, don't waste your time, arguing with "the Skip" is a deep dive to nowhere, really...

For those interested to buy it in Europe. Today, in a German store, with sales and rebates : z6 + 24-70 + ftz = 2169€ https://www.foto-erhardt.de/kameras/vollformat-kameras/nikon-z6-plus-24-70mm-plus-ftz-objektivadapter-kit.html (Do not evoke the falling prices...Do not evoke the falling prices...). Used prices will dive a little more ! My hyperbola talking about "half the price" was in fact a prophecy ?