drm

@Kisaha The difference in sensor stack size between the P4K and other M4/3 cameras should be most visible with native lenses at very wide apertures. I did some quick testing a few days back with my Voigtlander 25mm f/0.95 lens. I didn't notice a drop in image quality between my GH5s and my P4K, even using that lens wide open. At some point I am going to try and set up a test scene and look at this issue in more detail. There may be differences with that lens between the two platforms, but my initial look didn't reveal anything that stood out. Yes. I am sure that is the cause. I also think that Kisaha is correct. That particular lens in that video didn't show a big difference because the exit pupil is about 80. A shorter exit pupil will likely show different results. You just *know* that in the future you are going to hear horror stories about someone putting the new Metabones adapter on a normal M4/3 camera and messing up or scratching the sensor stack.

Thanks for sharing! Given the difference in the sensor stack on the P4K, I am surprised that there isn't more of a difference. I would have thought removing 1.5mm of glass from the stack would have made more of a difference.

I use the GH5, GH5s, & P4Ks to livestream (multicam) many times per week and have produced literally hundreds of episodes of content with them. I used to livestream with the JVC LS300s, until I sold them all, due to poor dynamic range and poor low light performance. I am admittedly biased as I get paid to do this professionally. You can live stream with all sorts of equipment, if you know what you are doing. You can even livestream with many of the action cams if you wanted to do so. I wonder how successful they will be if they intend the camera be used for live streaming. I suspect that low-end streamers will use their phones and people who are doing this more professionally will go right past this camera for something better. For example, a low-end streamer could use a Canon M50 + encoder and have about the same amount of money invested. (not apples-to-apples, but similar $) When I am selecting a camera to use on paying live broadcasts, a *lot* more goes into the decision that just the cost of the camera. I am certainly open to looking into the camera further. Perhaps it would be great for that purpose. For me, though, I think I would just purchase the regular E2 (which I believe also streams) to get the better image quality.

Thanks @webrunner5 for this article. This was fascinating reading. So, here are my big picture conclusions: This is only an issue at really wide apertures (1.4+) The sensor stack on the P4K is 1.5mm thinner than normal M4/3, so if you are using an adapter without optics, the P4K should perform better than other M4/3 cameras because its sensor stack is close to the same thickness as a normal SLR. The Sigma 18-50 f/1.8 lens is pretty much immune from the problem because it has an exit pupil distance of 150mm. MOST importantly (and unexpectedly) the P4K may show problems with *native* M4/3 lenses at very wide apertures because those lenses were designed to use a 4mm filter stack but the P4K uses one that is 2.5mm. Luckily, I have a Voigtlander 25mm f/0.95 lens and P4Ks + GH5/GH5s cameras. When I get time, I will compare the P4K vs. the GH5s wide open and look for differences. If there are differences, it will probably be on the edges of the images. I would bet that the differences would be most visible in photos, but obviously the P4K doesn't do very good photos... So, Blackmagic designed in a difference (filter stack = 2.5mm instead of 4mm) that would likely make the P4K perform better with adapted lenses, but also likely caused it to perform worse with native M4/3 lenses...weird.

I missed reading this in the description for the new speed boosters the first time: "...the optics have been re-designed to optimize for the filter stack thickness of 2.4mm found in Blackmagic cameras rather than the 4mm of a standard Micro Four Thirds." Wow...That filter stack thickness is much less than standard M4/3. But, apparently the old Black Magic 2.5K camera had a 2.5mm stack thickness. So, Black Magic is doing this for some specific reason. I wonder the reason... So, it looks like there really is a reason for a new Speed Booster unique to the P4K. Now, I really want to see one so that I can compare them side by side. According to the petapixel article, a thickness difference like that could have a large impact on image quality when using the booster with adapted lenses.

Hi @Shell64. If you are serious about buying an E1, I have two sitting in their boxes on a shelf in the other room. One has been taken out and sat on my desk a bit for testing, the other is still in the box. Let me know if you are interested.

LOL...Filmic Pro log profile on an iPhone can take some *really* nice footage if you try. You can't get depth of field, but with some NDs you can get some great footage.

I have used my P4Ks with the current Metabones 0.71x adapter with many different lenses (usually the Sigma 18-35) without issue. I have not noticed a single issue with the IQ when using the current adapter. I would be very interested to test my current adapters and the new ones side by side. To hear the marketing speak from Metabones, the newest adapter is the greatest thing ever Having a longer mounting plate would be cool, but I just got the mount for my cage and it holds the adapter well. The existing M43 Metabones adapters work well with the P4K. Will the new Metabones adapters work better? Probably. But, it isn't like you have to run out and purchase one. The existing ones work well.

Great work! How much lag is there in transmitting like that? I suspect just a few MS, but just wondering.

Have you considered the S1? You don't get RAW, but the image quality is supposedly stellar and the price is in budget, plus you get full frame (and something to use for photos ;). I agree about avoiding transcoding and shooting in RAW. I own 3 P4Ks, GH5, & GH5s and have shot many projects on them. I have shifted everything but run & gun projects to the P4Ks. Shooting in RAW makes it where I don't want to go back to the Panasonics & transcoding. The BRAW footage is very easy to edit in Resolve on Mac. It seems basically the same as editing ProRes. I hadn't considered BM much before the P4Ks, but we are now seriously considering the Ursa G2s and/or Panasonic S1s as our next cameras (for different reasons). The C200 is certainly a fine machine and is dropping some in price.

Yep. I posted several images on page 24 of this thread highlighting a few of the things that I noticed in that particular video. I was surprised that you are cross shopping the E2 against the P4K, given the price and feature difference. If you get the E2, please let us know how it goes.The problem probably isn't widespread or more people would be commenting about the issue.

If the YouTube type are going to be the main drivers of camera demands and innovation, the DSLR / interchangeable lens camera markets are dead. Their needs for YouTube are so minimal, you could probably get by just fine with the Sony RX100 VII. You don't even need an interchangeable lens. You certainly don't need high quality options like 10bit color, 60fps, and 4k or higher resolutions. There are exceptions like: Linus Tech Tips actually runs a Red. But, they have big budgets and are a definite outlier. For most people, a low end cam (perhaps even like the Canon M50) would be just fine. By way of example, think about the webcam market, which is probably a much larger market. The top of the line Logitech Brio was launched at the start of 2017 for $200. Most people are fine with the Logitech 920/922 for $99. There is *very* little innovation in the webcam market, even though most built-in cameras in laptops are crap (like 720p crap). For the most part, people just don't care about the quality of their webcams. Most people don't care much about the quality of their photos either, which is why they use their phones rather than a dedicated camera.

I use the Metabones 0.71x and it works perfectly. I use it mostly with the Sigma 18-35, but it works well with other lenses. My understanding was the P4K version was going to be somewhere between the 0.64x (which can vignette) and the 0.71x and perhaps have a few other features.

LOL...and YouTube will continue to "tweak" the compensation packages so that the YouTubers make less than the people who would have been working at McDonalds if their jobs hadn't been replaced with automated kiosks...

I agree that there is an opportunity for an improved quality of life if most of the repetitive jobs were handled by automation. It is the change over period that concerns me. That glimmer of hope is what prevents me from moving to a cabin in the Montana wilderness. Fortunately, most of these things are very slow, so you can prepare. The moral of the story for me is don't plan a career in an field where automation is coming, unless you plan on creating or repairing the automation

"Part of the RAW processing is moved out of software and into the camera, where it can be accelerated. Noise management, sensor profiling and new edge reconstruction algorithms are used to produce high quality cinematic images with incredible depth, crisp details and beautiful image separation. " https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/blackmagicraw When you select RAW as the codec, you can't select the sharpening level in the camera. When you select ProRes, you can select the sharpening level.

LOL...Andrew, you are a comedian too I don't think that I have mentioned this on here, but I have a Ph.D. in Finance & was a Finance professor for many years. In addition to my media company, I teach people how to raise capital and grow their businesses through innovation and strategy. I have long said that automation (robots, AI, etc.) is going to devastate certain portions of the job market, just like smartphones hit the camera markets, but many times worse. There are many industries where a person just won't be able to work when automation gets going. A current example is the push for $15/hr restaurant workers in the U.S., which just means there will be more machines & less workers (see the kiosks at McDonalds & self checkouts at Walmart, etc.). In the legal field, computer programs are already able to analyze documents in ways that humans simply can't. Businesses can already purchase Baxter, which is a ~$20k robot that you can show a task and he will repeat it (think assembly line) for a rough cost of $3/hr. The A.I. revolution is going to cause massive upheaval in society over the next 50 yrs. If you want a vision of the future, just look at the conditions today in Chicago, Baltimore, and other cities where the manufacturing jobs all left. When the service jobs leave, what's left? Mad Max.

Our society has been trending hard toward more convenience. Your phone is now your camera, computer, book, music player, and communication tool. If people can get fair quality in a more convenient method, many people will take the convenient option over the higher quality option. People simply can't be bothered to carry an extra device, since the cell phones produce fair images under good conditions. The ebook reader has been trashed by phones too. It isn't just cameras. The convenience thing is accelerating too. I know people that insist that their car have keyless entry and won't consider a car without out it. *Really*? You are too lazy to take out your key and put it in the ignition? For a lot of people, yep. Until Canon (and the other camera companies) embrace this trend, they are going to experience pain. I know they could fully integrate their cameras into a phone centered world if they tried. Why doesn't my DSLR automatically tie to my phone and upload my images to the cloud? (bandwidth, storage space) Why doesn't it allow live remote view and control from my phone? Why can't I go live straight from my SLR instead of needing an encoder? There are many other useful things that they could do that would make it a more valuable tool by integrating. (I know that some cams have some of these features already, but they could do so much more if they had this as their focus).

I think that smartphones are a huge part of the changing market. People are certainly switching to smartphones from other types of cameras. The question is from what?? So, I had an idea to investigate further. Keep in mind that this is *purely* anecdotal and may not apply to the overall market. I pulled this list of most commonly used cameras from flickr.com and sorted them by the average number of daily users. NINE of the top ten cameras were Apple iPhones. The Canon 5D MIII comes in at #7, with the Nikon D750 close behind at #11. Eleven of the top 20 were smartphones. The first point/shoot camera is #68. So, the P&S cams have been completely killed by phones. The DSLRs? Not so much. But, mirrorless is a blip on the radar so far. Here are the top 15. I attached the entire list as a PDF. What do you guys think? Camera usage on Flickr - 2019-07.pdf

You have Sony crushing it on the sensor side, so that many competitors are using Sony sensors. Then, Sigma is putting pressure from the lens side with good products at a reasonable price. Then Panasonic coming in with advanced features & style (and others like BM & Fuji). Where is Canon's competitive advantage? In what area are they ahead of the others? I get that they have a huge installed base of SLR lenses (certainly not mirrorless), what else do they have where they lead? They have good AF, but so does Sony and some others (damn you Panasonic... ) They have good colors, but others are catching up fast and with LOG, you can more easily adjust your colors. Hell, you can even make the Sony green skin look good...

Japan has an even more serious problem... demographics. If you look at the demographics in Japan (and other "rich" countries), the demographics are terrifying for the longer term business horizon. Japan overall is aging quickly. Over 28% of the population is older than 65, the avg. number of children per woman is 1.4, and they are having 400k more deaths than births each year. This has resulted in big labor shortages, with it being reported that there are about 1.6 vacancies for each applicant. They are also not keen on the idea of fixing their demographic problem via immigration, as some of the other wealthy countries are trying (I don't want to start a rukus, but the immigration route is fraught with peril). This is playing out to a lesser extent in the other "wealthy" countries as well. So, the country is facing both market and product problems. It really will take some very clever moves to survive. I suggest that people be on the lookout for a small company that innovates. These are the times where a new Microsoft can be born.

I would *love* to have a GFX-100. I won't buy it because it is $10k, but I would love to have one. At the other end, I have three BM Pocket4Ks. They are actually *very* good cameras at a silly low price. The lower-end price but high-spec gear is selling well and will likely do so for a good while.

Yep. That was my point. Canon could have made a big difference, but they chose not to in order to protect their lens/legacy business, like Intel, Kodak and countless other companies before. Now, you have the cell phone companies innovating in the photography space because that gives them bragging rights, which helps them sell more phones. The computational imaging stuff that they are working on is amazing (like Google's low light stuff). You know that it is serious when Canon is basically warning investors that they are going to get out of the camera space and focus on more profitable areas.

I noticed that even the action camera market is dropping in price with the Hero 7 now around $399. Then Sony brings out the new RX 100 VII @ $1200...what the hell were they thinking with a 1" sensor point and shoot camera at that price? I just noticed the Nikon Z6 w/ 24-70 lens is selling for $1799. I get the quality of the RX 100, but how big is that market? That market/price point can't have more than a couple of years left. Sony is trending up, but the market is getting smaller.

Speaking of sound, check out the new Zoom F6. The new wide dynamic range they have introduced will shake up the market. It, of course, won't be built as well as Sound Devices or Zaxcom, but Zoom are certainly innovating. Curtis Judd has a review on YouTube about it.