MrSMW

I know, I'm just more than a bit disappointed... My S5 didn't quite fit my wedding needs, but ticked every other box which for me is: personal work, family vacations, large format landscape photography and both video & photo commercial work. And with the 20-60mm lens, there isn't anything else at any price on the market today that does that (within my personal needs/requirements). Nothing. So on that basis, it is an absolute keeper. But for my hybrid capture wedding needs, it (the S5) works for stills but was pushing it for video with the lenses I intended to use, the 35mm f1.8 and 85mm f1.8 (when they come out). I just want/need a reasonably compact, preferably full frame, mirrorless, 4k 60p, 10 bit internal, minimal crop (though expect some if IBIS is engaged), but that x1.7 crop is OK with the 35mm, but way too long with the 85mm. Having said that, I'm not going to kick the Z6ii out of bed before we've even met, though the rumoured spec does look pretty accurate now. So it's still a contender but will have to see how it measures up to the S5 shooting hybrid (I have an all day job Tuesday that is going to be entirely handheld manual focus video and AF stills) or the XT4 which although I have never had one, the XT3 was my workhorse so very familiar with the system and files etc. As I've said before, no great rush for me, - I have 6 months until my next wedding and as above, the S5 does everything else I need and is a keeper for at least 3 years if not longer, so plenty of time to make a decision. I however personally disappointed with Nikon and for Nikon. I shot Nikon for 10+ years before moving to Fuji for the last 8 and really hoped to go back, but it's gone from looking almost absolutely to now not very likely. I'm not seeking 'the perfect camera'. I'm just looking to get the most compact kit that does what I need it to do for my specific use case scenarios.

Hmmm, if that's the case, then kills it for me as that's even more than my S5 which is x1.5 crop. Damn, damn and thrice damn. Looks like the XT4 needs to be my direction then as with that unit, both the stills and the video is in the 'same' crop, albeit x1.29 in full IBIS 4k 60p mode and that I can just about live with. But x1.7? Nah, - for my hybrid use, way too big a gap between the stills and video I flit between. I mean 85mm stills become 145mm in video. Crazy 😞

Quite agree. This is not a camera that can make Nikon, but it could break them. If they fluff it up. It shouldn’t be too difficult though as the Z6 and Z7 are already a good base and it’s not as if they have a cinema line to protect so... Miss the mark with this though and I can’t see a way back for them, ie, one of those real make or break moments for a company.

I’ve really only got one question now about this and that is will the 4K 60p be full frame? With my S5 I am happy/prefer it’s cropped for that camera (and lenses) intended use, but in regard to the pair of Z6ii’s I intend to purchase for different useage, 4k 60p crop could be a dealbreaker and especially if it’s not 10 bit internal. Please Nikon do not cripple this camera! You are my final remaining hope until at least mid if not late ‘21 and that’s too late for me...

OK, I will look at ALL options. Thanks!

Lightly graded and branding added. (James Miller creative LUT)

That's been one of my compromises for years. Had to use a battery grip to solve that, plus get decent battery life. My full frame camera is now smaller and lighter including lens! I think it's highly unlikely!

I can't see 'it' being the X-S10, but it could be the XH2... The X-S10 then possibly might work as a B or C cam or just a professionals 'personal' camera? But at this price point, it's going to be limited...but what it's limited to may be enough for some.

Thanks @Lux Shots but I suspect Adobe will be there within the next couple of weeks. I’m no fan of Adobe or their subscriptions but I’m not a fan of change either and so Lightroom Classic for pics and Premiere for video suit my needs right now. Though Premiere has this annoying habit of unlinking video and audio when I drag clips over to the timeline of leaving the audio behind... I’m not very techy but need to find an answer to that one...

I took my Falconeyes7 (stupid name) LED but did not use it once. Otherwise 5 or 6 overhead strip lights and natural light through that doorway only. Auto iso and auto WB. I do need to calibrate my monitor actually as my old system no longer works so it could be slightly off.

Canon may be pumping out cameras and lenses at an insane rate and will continue to do so. And Sony even more. And Nikon ups their game next week. And Fuji next year and...on and on and on it goes. Simple bottom line is what do YOU need and what has anyone else got to offer that your current set up is not offering? By the sounds of it, you are looking at the cost of an S5 vs the cost the of a C70, albeit switching the roles of your cameras around a bit. Then let's say you get the C70 and S1H became your B cam, you'd tell yourself it would make more sense to swap the S1H for a Canon R6. And change all your glass. What do you NEED? Your needs will be different to mine as they will to the next person and so on, but for this kind of thing, I write a drop down list on the left side of the page in regards to my needs and then simply either put a check mark if I have that need covered or write in the potential options if I have not. Then I ask myself are the potential options actual quantifiable and justifiable needs, or just wants? Such as 4k 60p. Do you actually need it or is 1080 more than good enough? IBIS, need it or are you always on a tripod or gimbal because then it'e worthless. Autofocus. Need or not? 10 billion dot viewfinder when you only use the back of the screen? Sony A7Siii I am looking at you. I don't care what anyone else is doing. My neighbour has a Ferrari. I have a Skoda estate. Good luck sleeping in your Ferrari overnight in the mountains ready for an early morning shoot because I have one of the back seats down, a platform, an air mattress, a 4 season sleeping bag, pillow, plugin coolbox, gas cooker, table, chair... but the Ferrari can do 0-60 in 3.2 seconds which is like 4k raw for an hour or something. Who gives a shit if you don't NEED it. Actually my neighbour has an SUV but for demonstration purposes 😉

Well that's it then for me, it's struck off! 🤪 I never expected for one second it was going to challenge an XT4 and that's my minimum spec for my needs. I'll still be interested to see it and where it fits into the marketplace just out of curiosity more than anything. A great camera company/brand are Fuji and they deserve to do well so best wishes to them even though I am no longer a Fujista myself.

That's true and I expect that's part of the aim with this new camera, albeit pitched slightly higher up the food chain?

I agree. I think it will be capped at 30p and maybe just 10 mins? Also agree with that. To an extent. I wish with the Pro3 they'd had the balls to make it photo only. Have the XT3/4 line as the hybrid but photo-centric option with the XT30/40 a smaller, cheaper, less well-specced option. XH1 another hybrid, but with a strong bias towards video and built in battery grip in order to balance larger zooms etc. X100. Great. Street, personal, travel, fixed lens beauty. Then there is the Bayer XT100 is it and XA line. Bin them both! Just dilutes the brand IMO. Ditto cheap compacts. So where does the new one fit in? I suspect they are killing the XT30/XE3 line and amalgamating them into this new single line that is 'sub-pro' and a general purpose item rather than anything specific. It will probably sell well and it intrigues me but as you say, no way it can be allowed to compete with the XT4.

I could push that relatively easily in post if I wanted to as there is decent latitude it seems in the highlights and the shadows are not too noisy. Not sure what the ISO was but I shot everything auto-ISO set 100-6400, wide open...or as wide open as that lens will allow so anything from f3.5-5-6 and monopod. I deliberately did not try out lot's of stuff on the day as I wanted consistency throughout the shoot. The only real variable I threw in was flitting between AF and MF and for AF used single point. I know a blacksmith local to me who is another friend so I'll try and convince/tell him I need to shoot him at work next week. I think I'll try handheld and the IBIS next time but otherwise, maybe bring the highlights down one notch, the shadows up one and the sharpness down one, but otherwise happy with this is a starting point. I can't stand shooting log...well not previously anyway with XT3 that had no on screen LUT so very much shoot based on it looking right on the rear LCD and the histogram (but the former more than the latter). And that rear screen, I'm not sure what res it is, but I think it's pretty good, no complaints. Not sure about price, but the 85mm f1.8 is due next month according to the roadmap and the 24mm, 35mm and 50mm (I think those are the other 3 focal lengths) coming early next year? No idea on price but I reckon somewhere between 500-1000 Dollars/Euros/Pounds? All these f1.4's and 1.2's even are great, but IMO just overkill for my needs and f1.8/2 is a sweetspot for me. Another thing I like about the look of them is they are all identical it appears in size, hoods, everything. That appeals to me. A lot. I'm only interested in the 35mm and 85mm though...and that is the same if I go Z6ii for my hybrid wedding needs. Jury is still out on the AF. It's not Canon, Sony or even Nikon fast and that's a given and I suspect Fuji also beats it. I have very uses for AF really (previously just laziness) but there are times I do need it so will look at that more closely over the next few weeks. Really, I just need a wedding to shoot as there's nothing better to test something than your actual real world use! I don't much care personally about the lack of FF 4k 60p. In fact, I prefer that it's cropped as I like to shoot a bit tighter and so this 20-60mm lens works more like a 30-90mm which for my needs is perfect. Ideally it would be a constant aperture f2.8, but then it would not be so small and light and would then kill it for me as a relatively compact travel/hiking lens so...

Well here's my first use of the S5. Neutral profile, no tweaks to any in camera settings, SOOC, 4k 50p shot in shutter priority 1/100 with the 20-60mm kit lens. Clips imported into Premiere and only adjustments have been to the speed which is 50% for the visuals. Password = Woodworker

I could live with 10 minutes. In fact I could live with 1 minute... My hybrid camera is very much up in the air still right now. Ideally XH2 but it does not exist and no sign. My S5 might still do it, but more testing and waiting on those f1.8 lenses to materialise. Z6ii most likely. This new Fuji has an outside chance... I would rather it had a tilt than a flippy and could live with the old battery and as long as it has the stills capability of the XT3, for me it comes down to the video spec for short clips. I suspect at this price point however it’s going to be capped.

I will be surprised if at that price it has 4K 60p 10bit internal. Otherwise ‘mini XH2 prequel’? Maybe...

Well my initial thoughts will be slightly shorter than your much more detailed report @herein2020 but I will add more as time goes by. First, why did I buy this camera, where was I coming from and intended use? Long time Fuji XT3 user, hoped an XH2 would have been with us by now but no signs and though the XT4 would do the job for me, the lenses do not. Great images, both stills and video and though the bodies are very video capable, I feel the lenses are not, so it was time to change. I have 4 basic requirements: 1: a personal/travel camera relatively compact that delivers very high quality results. 2: a camera that can do 50-100mp landscape photography. 3: a static video unit that can do 4k 60p for 30 minutes at a wedding and doesn’t have overheating problems. 4: a pair of hybrid units each with a prime, 4k 60p 10bit internal, IBIS. The S5 for me definitely ticks 3 of those boxes and all 4 if I can live with the focus for video in the hybrid role at weddings. So far so good and though I initially had some buyers remorse, I have none now and love the thing. I love the grip, but then I came from an XT3 so nuff said! The AF has so far proved to be erratic but I already knew that and for 95% of my use, I can and will be using mf. I do have a need for AF though if only a few times on a shoot and that is a potential issue that I may avoid completely by getting and using a pair of Nikon Z6ii’s for my use need 4: AF accuracy on a brief photo shoot scored 71/72 and the single oof was user error. The quality of both stills and video is stunning. I am not big into grading and though I shoot raw for stills, prefer not to shoot log for video. I shot all the video material on the natural profile yesterday for a promo video and SOOC it looks gorgeous. I have yet to edit it and tweak it, but I can already see it’s very good. I had a couple of very minor issues yesterday but pretty much all due to lack of familiarity with the system and user error, but nothing that is going to be a problem that I can see so far. Re. lenses, I only have one and that is the 20-60 which was surprisingly decent in lowish light and not too shabby with DOF. For the price, this lens is really good and though it does not replace a set of primes, especially for my hybrid wedding work, for my other 3 case needs, it’s perfect. Summary, so far, 9.5/10 and it would be for me a genuine ‘perfect’ camera if it had PDAF. OK, I wasn’t that short... 😉

Well I just took my S5 out on a proper full day's video job! I think it went quite well and will post up the result once I've edited the job. Takes a bit of used to with the familiarity of the controls etc and just the ergonomics/muscle memory coming from Fuji XT3 but looked good on the back of the camera. So far, so good...

I agree. Sony is a system I could switch to but based on 2 factors; A74 and early Spring ‘21 latest. As a wedding shooter whose season is April through October, I would need to skip a year to get on board with Sony. And that would be if they didn’t cripple hammer it for my needs. Same principal I have just applied to Fuji and that is they aren’t making the kit I need/want right now and no sign of an XH2 and I think it’s unlikely prior to next Spring by the sounds of it. Meanwhile, AF aside, Panasonic have a viable option right now in the S5 that ticks 2/4 boxes and imminent Z6ii ticks the other 2/4 requirements. Providing Nikon don’t cock it up and that we will know in a week or so. When it does come, I have no doubt that the A74 will probably if not almost certainly be the best all round mirrorless under 3k but my needs are also dictated by my working season.

This is the kind of thing that backfires against companies. If the worst case scenario happens... I was probably somewhat nieve by not actively seeking out the small print...which was not obvious and preordered on the headline offer. There is always small print however, but sometimes maybe it just needs to be more obvious.

Nope. In fact the opposite and Panasonic UK are just digging their heels in further and not exactly endearing themselves to me, but hey, there are many reasons why any company only achieves 4% market share...

I agree and unless you absolutely need in camera 4K 60p or twin card slots, these cameras are still as good as the day they were launched. It’s not like anyone had a gun to their head to buy them or anything else. They will make superb used options for a lot of people also. I do think the Z line has been the most underestimated and over-criticised system of these last 2 years.

Well I am in no rush as my season...what there was (1/25 jobs!) is over until mid-April 2021, so best part of 1/2 a year until I need the kit. Pretty sure it’s the ‘answer’ for my needs, this new & improved Z system, but in the mean time, I have my S5 to master and enjoy.