MrSMW

Possibly, but I don't see them as competitors. The SL2 and R5 sure, but neither with the Zf which is a different beast. The Zf really is more of that slightly larger personal camera with a prime that can do hybrid really well, but is not quite that lens platform that the other two in this mix are. I think all 3 options have merit, but for different reasons and ultimately as it usually does, it comes down to use case.

Well obviously they are playing the retro card a la Fuji and for anyone not coming from either shooting with the type of cameras the Zf is inspired by, or anything like the Fuji rangefinderesque or actual rangefinder body type cameras, the Zf body doesn't make much sense to those who have grown up with more grippy DSLR type designs. I came from that background using the type of cameras the Zf was inspired by for 5+ years at college, uni and then professionally so I'm OK with the format. Plus extensive use of Fuji X Pro 1 and 2's. The rear screen is a bit of an anomaly for this type of camera but actually, for stills especially, it makes a lot of sense and as someone who shoots maybe 25-30% in the portrait orientation, a very quick and easy system to use, along as you don't use a camera strap because camera straps make the use of these types of screen a real PITA. I don't (use a strap), but either the Spider Holster or a small bag, so not an issue. I did try a strap again but unless it is extremely thin for the first say 6 inches at least, PITA! Vs the Z6III, that camera is supposedly more capable and is definitely better ergonomically, but the older sensor in the Zf that it shares with the Z6ii, is arguably 'better'. More DR and from some extensive testing from others, just appears to have a nicer image. I think it's the same sensor as in the OG S5 and a few other cameras, possibly the OG Z6 also? This sensor does not offer the full frame 50/60p options etc that the newer sensor does, but it seems at the expense of outright image quality? I do think it's too big however and as someone who has added and needs an additional grip (despite my background with this style of camera) especially hopping backwards and forwards with more 'DSLR' type bodies, but wish it was at least 10% smaller. Weight is rarely an issue and I would rather it was smaller even if it got heavier. Anyway, not trying to defend the thing at all costs as many if not most of your points are quite valid, but my experience of it is it is one of those cameras where the reality of it is much better than the spec sheet or initial first impressions. When it first came out, I wasn't expecting it or looking for anything like it. But when it was announced last year, I was intrigued enough to pre-order one, something I rarely do. Initial first impressions were it was bigger than expected. Shot the thing and fell in love with it immediately and that rarely happens for me with cameras. Tried it professionally with mixed results on a few jobs and the two areas where it did not quite work for me were: A. Use of adapted Tamron zoom lenses which made for slightly odd handling. The Zf is better with primes for sure. B. Use of adapted Tamron zoom lenses without Sony body in camera corrections produced a few odd results that were not always possible to fully correct in post. So I sold it and bought a Sony A7RV instead which is without a doubt, a far superior bit of kit in almost every regard. Except: A. Low light and B. Fun. So I bought back a Zf on special offer for just over £1500 on special offer which was not far off what I sold my OG one to MPB for back in the Spring. Fun levels have been restored. In summary, as I have said before, I think it's one of those bits of kit you either gel with, or you don't, - very much a marmite camera. Personally, I love marmite won buttered toast so works for me. It's also one of those cameras you have to go shoot to double-check you gel with it. There is something in it's use, the rear screen res that I use exclusively, the shutter sound and feel that just does it for me. Now that one is one that I have been on and off the fence with and IMO is the 'new' Leica SL2. Arguably, the SL3 is more capable in a few areas, but at pretty much twice the price. Used Z8's are still not quite low enough for me, but I am off the fence now re. the Z8 and if I was going to trade my A7RV, ie, my pro work stills camera, for anything, it would be the Z8 based on what is available today. I checked MPB prices and the SL2 can be had for around €2.6k for a 'like new' one and the Z8 €3.8k, but just for some screen articulation alone, I'd need to go with the Z8. Still got a Leica itch to scratch some time. Maybe...

I have actually tried using second shooters from time to time and even farmed out editing, but nah, that drives me even more insane. At least when you do it yourself, your mistakes are your own and you can then use those to 'inspire' yourself to reduce them going forward as much as possible. Other than say tracking a couple with a gimbal and aerial drone stuff, I'm just not a fan of non-deliberate camera movement and I just decided towards the end of this year, I was spending too much time correcting in post or having material that just bugged me. It's really simple for me and that is I ask myself the question, "did you want to see any camera movement at all in that shot?" and if the answer is no as it is 99% of the time, I then have to ask myself why da fuck I wasn't then using at least a monopod if not a tripod. And the answer to that is convenience/laziness. I can't fully trust the freestanding monopod to be left unattended and 3 legged tripods with typically 3 points of extension (ie, 9 twists or clicks) are not the quickest things to use in faster paced environments. So in addition to my freestanding monopod and because my current lightweight tripod is no longer working properly, I am getting one of these: https://www.amazon.fr/-/en/dp/B0D93FB6VG/?coliid=I3I7882LSYHI5Y&colid=3UZ2Z0IEUEIAP&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it I have a pair of heavyweight tripods for proper static use, but you can't realistically work with those in most scenarios other than situations where you do want to set stuff up and leave it unattended knowing it can't get knocked or blown over.

Leica fangirl shill 🥱 But seriously, fair play and all the SL2 really lacked for me was any form of tilting or rotating screen, otherwise a used one could have been on the cards. And those are insanely low prices now! I must have lower standards because I haven’t got the same issues with the build of the Zf. OK, it’s a given it’s not going to be Leica build quality, but no issues myself and it shoots brilliantly!

In what regard...because nope, never heard of either of them?! I'm aware there is supposed to be a fairly imminent Sony A7V, but I don't have any real interest in that either. Or any other cameras or lenses except one and that is I am hoping Sigma do make a longer sibling to the 28-45mm f1.8 such as a 45-90 or 50-100 f1.8, but other than a Pocket 3, no plans for anything in 2025! I would have stuck with my main 2024 set up other than I found it a bit overkill so made some adjustments by removing 2 video units and replacing them with a single hybrid, but otherwise, no complaints.

I looked at a few more examples of this kind of thing yesterday and came to the conclusion, that without even trying it, raw is not for me 🤔 It's those file sizes when it comes down to it. If ultimate image quality was my thing rather than 'high level of quality that is 'good enough as far as I am concerned', then 200mbs smashes 2500mbs in my world because I don't need file sizes 12x the size for marginally improved image quality some of the time that only the nerdiest of nerds would ever notice. Nah, quite happy with burning a custom LUT at the time of shooting into all my footage. I have no need to please anyone but myself and my paying client who is paying and trusting me to deliver something similar to that which I showcase which comes full circle back to shooting to please myself, because that is what they are seeing and buying into. Which is partly why the S5ii (I should be on commission from Lumix) for me cannot be beaten, as in add up all the features I want out of a camera and system, for my needs, and it's top dog at any money. Considered Z8 and Z6iii and a number of Sony's and some Canon's and a few Fujis and nope, - nothing quite measures up. I still prefer...just, the image straight out of the S1H, but you can't burn a LUT straight into the log footage and it's AF is a bit wonky. I've been editing a ton of footage recently and with most clips, I am saying to myself, "yep, just what I wanted and limited tweaking required" and if it's off in any way, it's more because of my failures re. lighting and WB where I have either not recognised something or simply forgot to flip to another custom setting. Perfect? Ha, no, just as above, 'good enough as far as I am concerned', for my wants and needs. Raw would just be a major headache and overkill. At a level of 12x. As a minimum.

I'm heading back to working mainly on a tripod or monopod for as much of my work as I can. I'm just not a fan of the handheld look that seems to becoming increasingly popular...and increasingly annoying to my eye as in rather than simply being part of the unfolding narrative, all I see is a camera operator. Anything and everything I can do in 2025 on sticks, is happening and the key to that for me is instead of having my principal run& gun video unit on my right hip to hand, it will always be on either my freestanding monopod indoors, or new super-quick and super-lightweight tripod outdoors which will force me out of the laziness of shooting handheld. If I ever need to or want to shoot handheld, it will be with either the monopod or tripod still attached. And when I say laziness of shooting handheld, I am not saying it is 'lazy' per se, because if you like that look and are deliberately going after it, great, but rather it grates on me personally. There will still be a place for handheld and for gimbal type work, but at very specific times for very specific purposes. Nothing to do with M43 or APSC, but the mentions of tripod resonated with me! Most of what I learn and then act upon, tends to come from not so much what I like, but rather what I don't like and as someone in the industry, I find it impossible to switch off when watching anything, whether it be a series or a movie because all I see is the BTS! Well it's not all I see and I am inspired by some of the stuff that I see and like, but it's like bad audio, - bad (to me) camera movement really grates on me and as a result, I am determined not to inflict that on my own clients if at all possible!

Kept a single S5ii.

ALL items gone and thanks for the purchases folks! Ain't no extradition from where I am now headed...

All items now SOLD except the 'Like New' S5ii! Actually less of an update than it may sound... Still Sony for primary stills and no changes there. Still Lumix for primary video, but downscaled the amount of kit I had as there was a bit too much set up and breakdown, on-site transportation and logistics etc which kind of defeated having the extra kit. Nikon is back in the mix as it was at the start of the year, but for 2025, in a hybrid role as a stills sidekick to the A7RV when I want something lower res, more fun and more candid use, plus better lower light. Also works in a secondary role for some video work. Plus after a long time of just using my phone, I wanted a 'personal' camera, so the Zf with 40mm f2 is just that for me.

Item 01 = 'Like New', - haven't even opened the box which was a replacement from MPB for a unit with a faulty fan. €1250 posted anywhere EU. Item 02 = 'Excellent', ie, very light use. €1000 posted anywhere EU. BGS5 battery grip = €125 posted. Lumix 70-200mm f4 'excellent' = €670 posted. As above, EU ONLY and bank transfer only. Established forum members only ie, if I am unaware of your existence, ain't happening 😉 PM if interested as all of these items will otherwise be sold to MPB this week where they can then be purchased at highly inflated prices... All surplus to requirement, no other factor.

Every time I muse about trying raw, I get reminded about those file sizes and put the notion back to bed.

Yup, silly internet and silly YouTubers. Actually, to be fair, quite a few rate it, but the brand does not have the more mass market caché of the Sony brand, never mind Nikon or Canon and IMO, that is the biggest weakness of Panasonic Lumix, - inept marketing.

I was shooting cropped APSC with it, so not so much difference.

Sell the lens and get closer to 1000?

Also, forgot to say, I watched 2 of the 3 videos above (not watched the Zf one yet) and the Nikon picture looked sooooo much better than the Sony. Possible lens and editing differences and then there is Youtube compression etc, but if the variables were as close as possible, that Nikon picture looked much nicer to my eyes.

I tried it in a direct head to head with Lumix and personally found it trash. Perhaps trash is too harsh, but I just did not like it. I would probably have 'liked it' more if I did not have anything to compare it to, but I threw it in at the deep end on a job as a B cam to an S1H. Loved the camera otherwise!

I agree, or even single Type B CF Express, but can understand why they would not. But then I just treat the Micro SD as internal storage as it never leaves the camera so a non-issue for me. A bigger issue is Nikon not being able to write back up files. In fact there are 3 things currently that stop me from going to Nikon for video: 1. Not being able to write those back up files to another card. 2. Doesn't have the crop overlay function like Lumix and Fuji offer. 3. Cannot burn a LUT direct t the log file. But then Nikon counters with the Z8 being able to shoot internal raw and not just because it can, but because I might be genuinely interested in shooting that. Rigged out to shoot raw? Nah, but internal... The RED effect. Still to try the current/recent LUTS, but what else is coming in the future? But re. the Zf, I think it's one of those cameras you need to go shoot with for a day and then go shoot something else. It works for some, but not others and the some it does I think are the slightly older school, often analogue backgrounds (like me)?

I bought it purely as a stills machine over going medium format. What it came down to in the end was cost of body, cost of lenses, range of lenses, size & weight of lenses, IBIS, AF, DR and that screen mechanism. For me, it was a no-brainer really at around €3.5k in the Spring. Ergo-wise, I do have the Smallrig baseplate on it as it's a bit too small without, plus the Peak Design hand/wrist thingy which makes for a nice snug grip with bigger lenses. A set of f2.8 Tamron lenses; 20-40, 28-75, 70-180 make for a super compact, high performing kit. One not so hidden gem, is the ability at a turn of a dial, to go from 61mp FF stills to still FF, but about 1/2 the file size and another turn of the dial, APSC 26mp stills that are fractionally higher res than other manufacturers 24mp FF files. Or at least how I have it set up. Never shot video on it so can't comment. I honestly don't think think there is anything to touch it right now all factors (that count for me) considered. The Zf I think is one that you either 'get' or you do not. It works for me and I'm currently using it in only one way and that is with the 40mm f2 SE lens and as my poor man's Leica Q3 43 that I cannot justify or afford and better than the X100VI. In the future, it's also going to do static 4k 30p video with the Tamron 70-180 plus pull low-light stills with the Voigt 40mm f1.2 manual focus lens. I do wish it was a little smaller, but that's my only real criticism.

For stills, easy choices for me; Sony A7RV and Nikon Zf. The Sony as my principle stills camera and the Nikon as my (other) pro camera, but more satisfying to use. The Sony beats everything for me for its combo of; cost vs size vs features vs pixel count. The closest alternative for me would be Z8. The Zf is slightly larger than I’d like but there is something about it I just love. A lot of things actually, otherwise I would not have recently bought another after regrettably selling mine in the Spring. I really wanted a grey leather one, but it would have been about €750 more so that did not happen. For video, S5ii. I might trade my remaining one for a Z6iii but not decided yet. Both fit my needs perfectly but the S5ii currently is my choice over the Z6iii because it has the LUT function and that just works for me. If I did not need AF, the S1H without question. Within the price range mentioned, but even above that, I don’t think there is anything I’d change? Not for my real world use.

I like shooting with my custom LUT burned into V-log on my S5ii. Solves all the problems I had shooting log previously. The lack of being able to do this with Nikon is actually THE primary thing regarding why I am still sitting on the fence flipping to Z6iii.

I am very intrigued to try the RED Film Bias LUT for N-Log, - it looks nice from the examples I have seen. I was hoping to have tried it by now, but had shit weather and other obstacles in the way including a ton of work that needs finishing. But I have a full day set aside in about 2 weeks for pure capture purposes. Then I'm going to put it up against my conversion LUT of choice for my S5ii and see which I like best. It will at least help with any future decision I need to make within the next 4 months whether to flip to Nikon for all my video needs for 2024 or continue with a hybrid Lumix/Nikon mix. I'd rather just shoot one brand though and based on recent history and current scenarios, I think I'd want to be backing Nikon over Panasonic... Zf, Z6iii, Z8 vs solo effort S5ii.

I've never really understood the sensor argument. Just commission one then FFS!! The S1R had one by Tower Jazz did they not? And as to the size thing, surely it's the same thing? M4/3/APSC/FF/MF, - just make one and then cut it to size? Or maybe I'm just showing my complete lack of technical understanding about these things? 🤔

And that is the sum of it for me. I would like to stay as brand loyal as I can, but more because I just do not like change, but at the end of the day you are a working pro and something is not quite working as well as it might…and there is a better option, then moving to that option makes sense. If it’s financially viable to do so. Lumix/L Mount came good for me for video and I thought they would for stills, but it has not happened and I have zero idea if they will now. For me it really is a 50:50 whether I believe they are going to follow up on the S1R especially. And it’s not too late, but I started 2024 approx 50% invested in Sony and Nikon, plus 50% L Mount. My 2025 season almost certainly starts 33% Sony, 33% Nikon and 33% L. I’d rather not be using 3 brands, but as above, right tools for the job take precedence and in my particular set up, the fact that I’m using 3 different lens platforms and sets of batteries etc, actually is not that big a deal. But it will be just 2 brands for 2026 as a maximum and ideally just 1, but I need to see how it plays out now. Zero necessity now for me, - that is now covered, but instead, simply a case of want.

I think so. I have bought and sold 3 gimbals, each time determined to make it work and each time it failed. Not so much the actual units failed, though they did for me in certain regards, but in the end the conclusion that I needed the ability for maybe 5% of any job and it was not worth either dedicating a camera to this, or the set up if not. Over the years, I have tried various action cams but none of them really worked in the role I needed them to. I had the OG Pocket and it was OK but a few limitations so sold it and tried a full sized gimbal for the third time. The latest one addresses my issues with that and the name says it all, pocket. That is exactly what I need; something I can whip out of my pocket (or bag), switch on, shoot, put it away again.