MrSMW

It’s not really an Achilles Heel though but rather a better (the Z9) platform for the larger zoom lenses it is designed for as this is their ‘Pro Sports’ camera. No one has to buy this (or any other) camera but for those that do and then later say, “it’s too large, it’s too heavy”, perhaps should not have purchased it on the first place. But for it’s target market, you want/need that lens platform and that is what this type of body is. Would I rather have the same FF sensor capability in a M4/3 chassis and lens sizes? Sure, so would anybody in their right mind, but it does not exist. It comes down to compromise as most things do ie, where do you make your compromise? The principle one for me would be weighing up ergos including size and weight vs performance/capability/need sensor-wise. With that choice to make, I personally will compromise on the physical side of this equation. Personally though, I have taken a middle route and that has been lens based within the FF sensor capability and building a system around just 2 lenses that cover all my needs; 20-40mm and 70-180mm. The latter choice is the key one for me in that it gives me all the real world range I need for my job, but on the smallest and lightest FF option currently in existence, the Tamron 70-180mm f2.8 The body, well still to decide on that but probably the Z9, sacrificing some weight and size benefits over the Z8, for all the other stuff it brings to the table for me. Personal choices based on my specific needs.

Why would anyone replace a Z9 earlier than a Z8? I would rather have a smaller & lighter camera if it was possible, but it’s a case of weighing up the pros & cons, ie, ‘The Compromises’. The Z9 edges it for my needs though I could make the Z8 work. It depends on your use case/needs/preferences and for some, the Z8 will fit better and for others the Z9, but I’m not sure why you think anyone who makes the Z9 choice would replace it sooner than a Z8 if they made the right choice in the first place?

That is the plan and why I have switched to Nikon for stills at least; the Zf with the 40mm f2 being the 'candid' camera and then something more substantial, Z8 or 9 for everything else; longer, wider, portrait format, higher res, etc... Oh I agree. It's Z6 sensor but with Z8/9 'brain' in it, though some seem to think they held back on the last bit of AF performance, but whether that is speculation or fact, I have no idea. My S5ii is good, but the Zf is definitely better. And a much nicer stills camera to me. Which is the whole point. I haven't, but then I am not planning on using Nikon for video at this time...unless that Z6iii comes out by March and then providing it meets my spec, overheating being on my check list, it would become my principal video unit and the Zf and either the Z8/9 would switch from being dedicated stills units to hybrid use. Only one of my cameras needs to run for any length of time. Both S1H and S5ii have never had a problem, 1+ hour, in direct sunlight, at 40 degrees celsius. Could the Z8 manage that? I doubt it... Which is why I 'secretly' hope Nikon does not produce a Z6iii, or it's later than March 2024, or they stuff it up somehow, because then I can stick with L Mount for video, because it needs to be bloody good to be as good as, never mind better than my current S1H/S5ii pairing.

Probably… Back in the day, rangefinders for film photography were the thing. To some they still are, but perhaps these days in a digital format such as the Leica M8/9/10/11, Q2/3 and the rangefinderesque Fuji X Pro-1/2/3 and X100 line. In recent years, they have become video capable, often to the same level as their mirrorless ‘SLR’ style siblings, but are they the best tool for the job? Probably not but will either work in a pinch or can be made to work… I’ve had a string of the Fuji X cameras from the Pro1 to the Pro2 and all of the X100 cameras except the the V, ie, all of them except their most recent incarnations which are the most video capable. I personally would not choose any of them for video work regardless of capability because unless rigged out, they don’t work very well ergonomically for video compared with their siblings, ie, I’d take an XH2 over an X100V as a video tool every time. For stills though, either with a built in pancake or interchangeable compact lens system such as the X Pro line or the Nikon Zf, they are nice to use. For stills, in my career, the two cameras I have enjoyed the most have been the X Pro1 and X Pro2, the second version fixing the somewhat tardy AF issues of the first version. I never went to the 3 because though I would have welcomed a tilt screen, the one they went for was not for me. So the Zf is a return to that style of shooting (stills) for me and with a fixed lens approach as another…and perhaps my favourite ever stills camera, was the original X100. The 35mm focal length was/is pretty good, but 40 is better still. 12mp back in the day was OK, but 24/25 is far better. And it has excellent AF and all round operating speed including start up from cold. And then there is fantastic class leading IBIS and almost the same level of video capability as my S5ii. Almost because it doesn’t allow for 6k shooting though technically could. But would it make a decent or even good video camera? Actually yes, for my needs at least and this is something I will be exploring in 2024. In standard format, it’s ergonomically shit for holding out in front of you style video, but the Smallrig grip improves things considerably. I don’t think it’s the kind of body to be using bigger zooms or longer lenses on, but I will be interested to see how it handles with my (adapted) Tamron 70-180mm when it turns up, but again, more from a stills perspective. But as a pure video camera? Probably not. For one thing, it doesn’t really offer anything you’d want to shoot externally so whilst you could add a cage, handle, monitor etc, why would you? That would possibly be a case of forcing a tool to work better for you than it otherwise might, but more suited tools exist in the first place. But compared with the Z6ii, it’s moved the game on in the AF and IBIS department so it sits between it and the Z8. Kind of. At least capability-wise, though not ergonomically. I’m looking forward to using mine more. I never saw it coming but when it was announced ‘out of the blue’, knew instantly it would be a good fit for me. There’s quite a bit of hype, both positive and negative, around it right now, but that kind of thing doesn’t influence me, - it either works for me or does not and for me, it’s the 2023/2024 version of the Fuji X100 I always wanted. Criticisms so far… Only one and that is I would rather it had a tilt screen than a flip out but understand why they probably went this route, - to try and please 2 markets. Market 1 being the casual video shooter/content creator and Market 2 being ‘The Photographer’ who can turn and close the screen and use the viewfinder only and never use the video function. It’s not for everyone, but it is for me. Which topic is this again? Z8 I think… 🤔😉 Still sitting on my fence over that one… It depends on if Nikon pop out a Z6iii any time soon and how that 70-180 works on my Smallrig gripped Zf, but otherwise leaning back towards the Z9 for the following reasons in no specific order: A. It’s arguably more ‘pro’. B. It’s undeniably ergonomically better and a better larger lens platform. C. Better cooling. D. Longer battery life. E. Twin CF Express card slots. The negative is it costs more than the Z8, is heavier and less discrete, but these compromises do not outweigh the sum total of A-E for me.

The FX30 is a very fine camera in it’s own right but would be a sideways…or even backwards move for me, so no, not going to happen.

Because 50% of my work is photography and as a photo camera, it is ‘average’ at best. The FX30 is designed to be a mini ‘cine’ camera, either with or without a bit of rigging out such as a cage and side or top handle plus monitor. The S5ii is a better hybrid and arguably better video camera. IMO.

Yes I saw that yesterday. Difficult to judge with YouTube compression but it looked to me that the Zf footage was a little warmer, the Z8 a little more neutral but magenta and the Zf not as detailed in UHD but equal to and maybe a tiny bit more in 4k? The Zf less noisy also. I have yet to fully explore the video capabilities of the Zf but all the evidence so far points to it being excellent and a strong competitor for the Lumix S5ii having the same size (actual?) sensor and crop in 4k 50/60p. Still waiting for my Tamron 70-180 to arrive which will determine whether I need the Z9, or whether the Z8 will do (mainly a handling POV) or even whether I could get away with it on my Zf… Regarding the latter, well of course I could, but I don’t want to get into another ‘handling issue compromise’ like I have had all year, albeit with a good handling rig, but just too heavy, ie weight alone is not the only factor. Decisions, decisions, decisions… Footage-wise though, liking what I am seeing from all the Zeds.

Completely disagree. But based on my definitions of size/weight/bulk etc. To put it into perspective, my main camera this year has been an S1H + battery grip + Leica 24-90mm f2.8-4. This rig weighs just over 2.8kg…which is one of the reasons I am reluctantly trading it for something lighter for 2024. My dream rig is the Canon R3 + 24-105mm f2.8 weighing in at 2.35kg, so still a bit of a beast, but around 1/2kg lighter, faster constant aperture, bigger zoom range at the more important (to me) long end, integrated grip, non-extending lens…but costs 8k+, so unfortunately I cannot justify it. Then there is the Fuji X-S20 with Tamron 17-70mm f2.8 offering the same equivalent focal length as my dream rig above, but costing 1/4 of the price and weighing in at under 1kg. I would call it ridiculously compact, lightweight and capable and with maybe 90%+ of the real world capability of either of the ‘pro’ combos above. I shot the XT3 professionally for 2 years and it was and still is a fantastic camera. The ONLY thing it lacked for me was IBIS. The X-S20 is arguably a more capable camera than the XT3, has IBIS and is even smaller. No-brainer to me. The S5ii is not much bigger or that much more capable, though it is in both senses, but the issue for me is then lenses because the equivalent is the f4 24-105 and so yes, the combo is bigger, heavier and out of budget, so I could not recommend it in this instance.

Ditto all of the ☝️ Some folks read too many YouTube comments or even opinions from certain channels that are often based on diddly squat. Never had banding or AF issues with my S5ii. For video, it’s a f**king excellent piece of kit and way above most folks needs or skills. And for the price, silly value.

The Tamron 17-70mm f2.8 is a better lens than the Sony 18-105mm f4. IMO. The former can be had for either Fuji X Mount or Sony but the latter Sony only. Obviously. That Sony lens will be OK outdoors in good light, but otherwise… Depends on your needs but if Panny is out of the running and that budget is fixed…

The positions seem to have changed when I clicked the link myself, but hey ho, I'm sure you will work it out!

I had a play on Camera Size: https://camerasize.com/compact/#887.1042,908.1081,895.955,901.879,907.901,ha,t From left to right, we have: OM-1 + 12-40 (24-80) f2.8 as a M4/3 contender. It is both larger and heavier than the... Fuji X-S20 which is one of the 2 APSC players here, but with the pretty tiny Sigma 18-50 (27-75) f2.8...but please note, the next camera along, the FX30 has the Tamron 17-70 (26-105) f2.8 I was recommending...and did not attach it here to the X-S20, because it was not an option. Next up is the FX30 which is no smaller really than the full-frame S5ii and arguably not as a capable. The S5ii I stuck the 24-70 f2.8 on it because the smaller and lighter Sigma 28-70 f2.8 (my pick) was not an option (though is in the real world). And just for reference, I stuck on the end a 'pro' camera, the Nikon Z8 with 24-70 f2.8 IMO, for your money and needs, I'd struggle to see past the Fuji with the Tamron lens which is not only the most compact of these set ups, but offers the greatest focal range and I believe ticks all your boxes. Without having to make any compromises. I would quite happily shoot Fuji X professionally for all my video and stills needs and did for many years.

Rather than NOT waiting for that next gen is what I meant ☝️

I feel the same. The tools I have at my disposal now are on a completely different level. Today it is about what I can financially justify rather than using what is available but waiting for that next gen. I can’t think of a single ‘next gen’ thing I want or need and that is partly because I know it already exists for my needs.

Is it Jack, or is it Jake? Let's get our facts straight here.

Sounds too good to be true. That would otherwise be ridiculous value...but it doesn't ring true just based on price. IBIS has more axis of stabilisation than lens OIS, but yes, you don't need lens stab if you have it in the body...though if both have it and they play nicely together, better still. Stabilisation is a whole topic on it's own though as in what do you want it to be? Locked off almost tripod like? Fuji is good at this. Wave it around like a gimbal? Olympus or latest Nikon very good. But back on price, you could get an OG S5 within the budget, but not a S5ii with a lens.

I just know that at some point, maybe next year, maybe the year after, I am going to get some hipster stood next to granny with her iPad, shooting one of these things…

Concise summary of so much rumor regardless of brand when it comes to rumors. I still look occasionally myself though… 🤪

I looked at doing this partly because I liked the idea of this tiny micro camera but also just because ☝️

27-83mm vs 26-105mm at a constant aperture of f2.8, but at the expense of OIS…but you get IBIS with the X-S20, so IMO yes, both the body and lens are better. Forget the UK prices folks. Since Brexit, us EU people have to pay import duty. I can’t find an S5ii under 1850 euros and for the kind of focal range the OP wants, it’s 500+ for a lens with the 20-60 being a fine lens, though a bit slow and too short. The 24-105 f4 is good, great even, but the size & weight of the package is now creeping up as is the cost…and if it’s non-pro work, how inclined are you going to be to lug something around unless it’s fairly compact? I think APSC is your sweet spot here and it’s that Fuji + the Tamron 17-70 😜

27-83mm vs 26-105mm at a constant aperture of f2.8, but at the expense of OIS…but you get IBIS with the X-S20, so IMO yes, both the body and lens are better. Forget the UK prices folks. Since Brexit, us EU people have to pay import duty. I can’t find an S5ii under 1850 euros and for the kind of focal range the OP wants, it’s 500+ for a lens with the 20-60 being a fine lens, though a bit slow and too short. The 24-105 f4 is good, great even, but the size & weight of the package is now creeping up as is the cost…and if it’s non-pro work, how inclined are you going to be to lug something around unless it’s fairly compact? I think APSC is your sweet spot here and it’s that Fuji + the Tamron 17-70 😜

Then back to this then: Fuji X-S20 used Excellent condition (MBP) plus new Tamron 17-70mm f2.8 (28-105 equivalent) At least, it would be my pick at this budget.

It's true, I looked myself! So you either need to: Go grey import, or, Up your budget by +500 euros, or, Buy something else!

A VERY strong contender for me and could have been an outright winner for me, except for one thing, and that is I am taking the MarkusPix 'one and done' approach and including a lens. There isn't a single lens in the L Mount line up that swings it for me. If I had to pick just one, it would be the Sigma 28-70mm f2.8 to pair it with, but then at 24mp, too short for my needs. But purely as a camera body, for stills and video, I'd choose it over anything and everything else.

TDimension are another of these Hong Kong/China based companies aren’t they? I have used a few before such as Digital Rev back when I used to live in the UK 7+ years ago, but avoid now. When it works, it’s fine and you get a great deal, but if you wish to do a return or have a warranty issue, good luck with that. This is where it goes wrong for folks and all the 1 star ratings come in. You pay less, but you roll the dice using them. I would not. You might. Better the used market with someone like MBP.