MrSMW

Branding/image. Canon = cameras. Maybe printers and back in the day, photocopiers. Panasonic & Sony = electronics. Tough to get past that though Sony have helped themselves with their marketing and YouTube etc. Panasonic... Well Panasonic or Lumix as we should call them, haven't really played that ball very well. Fuji came (back) on the scene in 2011 and have been gaining popularity in their niche ever since. Nikon for a while were on the ropes but with the Z9, then Z8 and now Zf, have hits on their hands. If you can manage to buy any of their products... Olympus has fallen. Pentax. 64 million years BC.

For me it would be a pair of Zf’s with primes, or a single Z8 with a zoom…except I’d go for a Z9 actually over a Z8. I like both approaches about equal really but other than Lumix making me my S2R/H, it’s more like a pair of Zf’s with a set of primes vs a single Sony A7RV with a single zoom lens for the smallest, lightest, most croppable, flexible, package around. I really don’t wish to change my S5ii’s and lens sets for my video work because they just work. It’s stills only (with occasional hybrid use) for the 3rd unit. Or back to 4 units with the Zf’s…but if they are small and light enough…and with primes they would be, I could swing that. At least my options are narrowed down to just 3 now but we’ll see, it all hinges on The L MOUNT ALLIANCE.

Agree with you there Django, but the Zf is a photo-centric camera and the folks that buy these kind of things are not really into rigging stuff out for external RAW etc. Or even video full stop in a lot of cases other than occasionally. I don't know about the overheating, that one remains to be seen, but definitely if video was my primary focus, this camera would not be on my list. Certainly not 'professionally'. As a 50:50 hybrid shooter, I have tried using the same bodies to do both and come to the conclusion I can do it, but I prefer having dedicated units to each. I have pretty much settled on the 3 body approach now, one for stills, one for (considered) filming and one for (mainly static) video. The downside with this approach is it really requires zooms in order to limit the compromises and I'd rather shoot primes so I might flip back with my next gen kit to having 3 identical bodies that can fulfil all 3 roles in a hybrid manner. If I do, the Zf would NOT be a contender for this. I don't think anyway... But I am considering the possibility of a pair of Zf's with some primes, purely for stills and go for that classic pairing of something like the 35mm f1.8 on one hip with the 85mm f1.8 on the other with something wider and something longer in the bag for those times when I need it. I'm going to be in Paris in mid November so hopefully some of the stores like FNAC will have at least demo units so I'll have a play if I can.

That is also true, though I would expect to see more larger vertical video in the future for the simple reason that we are becoming increasingly used to using these smaller devices in the vertical orientation, that it makes sense (to me anyway) that by the time we get to Bladerunner 2049 times, more devices such as tablets and laptops etc, plus video advertising, will be taller than it is wide. A square 8k or even 6k sensor would still suit my needs very well!

It makes perfect sense to me that ALL sensors today, other than that intended for cinema/TV should be square because then best of both worlds! Just set up custom overlays on the screen and it's easy to see what is possible from any scene. With my photography hat on, I'd MUCH prefer to shoot this way without having to continually rotate the camera physically, but see the projected result/cropping on the screen instead.

Late 80’s into early 90’s so after a quick Google, looks like the FM2. I know it wasn’t one of those big blocky one’s…

Indeed. If it Had not been for that very issue with the Z9 in the second half of '22 and first half of '23, I'd have been shooting Nikon all this year as that is where I was going. Except couldn't buy one until out was too late (for me) 😒 Another thing about the Zf, I cut my teeth on FM3's I think they were back in the day. 2 years and college and 3 at uni and all we had were those and rolls of Ilford HP5 so no guesses what I bought as my first pro camera. FM3/F3, whichever was the smaller one...but it was 30+ years ago so the memory is a bit foggy. They weren't available in orange, blue, red or any other colour skin however...

Well it would have to be is what I mean and with more features or folks will WTF it's existence even more than they will regardless. I've been eying up the new Cookes...and came to the conclusion, I'd need to be Coked up to do that properly, but the Dulens Micro Primes look the business and the entire set of those costs less than one new Cookie...

There's nothing wrong with being the son of God 😉 Hadn't thought of that though, 6k internal only from the 8k sensor. That is probably what they will do then. I keep flip-flopping over whether I want to really explore only shooting video and pulling stills from that, but I keep ending up in the same place which is I am 50% a photographer and love editing as much as shooting stills, but pulling stills from video I think would get tedious very quickly and become a process rather than anything creative... So I am back in the camp of finding a new champ to succeed the S1H. Why succeed it if I like it so much? 2.8kg. It doesn't weigh 2.8kg? Yes it does, I'm not the son of God and just a very naughty boy as I've got a battery grip on it to balance out the Leica 24-90mm beast that's doing the lens bit. I need to get that level of quality ideally below 1.5kg. Which it would be or thereabouts with that A7RV and the Tamron 28-75, or could be even more so with a pair of Zf's and a pair of primes... Or Lumix gifts me that 60 megapixel S2R and I can then just use the Sigma 28-70 and I don't need a grip or a longer lens because I can crop.

That would be logical and my thinking except Panasonic said very recently, they are not entering the 8k arena. They did not say what they were doing instead, but it would have to be a development of their existing 6k surely...but that is at odds with the 8k and the whole Leica tie up/Q3 internals/precursor to an SL3. It's a bit odd... In a heartbeat providing they solved the banding issue in certain lighting conditions because I tried the FP-L and it absolutely could not be trusted in this regard. And didn't have IBIS. Or shoot 4k 50/60p. Or any form of tilt screen. Apart from that, fucking (with an added grip) brilliant 😉 One with a 35mm f2 and the other with a 65mm f2. They make both of these lenses so... But then one could simply add these lenses already so... This was actually going to be my run n' gun hybrid set up had the FP-L not had the 97 missing features I needed to make this possible...but maybe the next gen might? If there even is a next gen and there are zero rumours other than the endless speculation over Foveon but as you say, nothing solid, just diarrhoea...

I don’t have buyers remorse over getting a pair of S5ii’s either because for the 50% side of my work that is video, they are stellar. But as hybrids, I am a bit dissatisfied because I just don’t find them great stills units. Compared with the S1H, they are just clunky in that regard. Ultimate image quality, little difference, but to use, zero joy. I had intended after buying a single S5ii unit, to get a pair of S5iiX’s and indeed had preordered them but cancelled one and returned the other box unopened. I really had hoped and thought the 3 identical body approach would work for me…and it would, just not with these 3 bodies. Principal issues = modest res rear LCD (which is how I work) and annoying shutter button feel and sound. (Spoiled with that of the S1H). So I don’t know about the shutter button on the Zf but the rear screen is much better so scores on at least 1 of my 2 niggles. If purchasing today, hands down the Zf. I happen to be one of those people that like dials also rather than buttons so another win there. But my best financial option and honestly I’d be 100% over the moon if Lumix, or even Leica or Sigma pop something out in time as it will simply then be a case of swapping one single body within an existing system than an entire system swap which I would rather avoid. The middle road being swapping the stills unit and a few lenses which at this point in time would be: 1. Z9 + Tamron 20-40 adapted and Tamron 35-150, or, 2: A7RV + Tamron 28-75 as the more compact unit, skipping the longer lens for cropping using those extra megapixels and accepting I’m not shooting any wider than 28mm. Or an entire system swap for 3x Zf with the choice of 4 primes and 1 zoom. Musing on a very wet off day somewhere in SW France…

Well this is a good and one of my own questions as there is limited info out there. I guess the only real way to answer it is have one of our Nikon users report back just how well such a set up works back to back with something native. Ie, someone with nothing to sell. I have a list of 3 categories and a leading contender in each: Video bodies = Lumix Photo bodies = Nikon Zoom lenses = Tamron And therein lies my problem, - 3 corners of a triangle and none of it works natively or at all… The solution is Sony and it may turn out to be the only viable option within a time constraint, but so close to my perfect set up…yet still so far. Something I have mentioned several times recently is a desire to get back to the ethos I had when I left chunky Nikon DSLR for dinky Fuji in 2011/12 and actually up until just now, it was Fuji who could still best fulfill that. But now the wheel has turned full circle and it’s Nikon who arguably who have ‘done a Fuji’ and produced a cute but highly sophisticated bit of kit that ticks every box except natively, the lenses. There’s options though natively with Nikon so a 3 camera set up based around the Zf is doable and has a lot of appeal… It has probably become the strongest contender now for my 2024 set up if Lumix do not pop out a replacement for the S1R/H available to purchase by March ‘24 absolute latest. So we shall see, but didn’t see it coming, but the Zf is a 👍 for me.

But then surely that eats the G9ii’s lunch as to most people’s eyes, it will be ‘the same camera’ but just with a slightly different body. I’m not really sure what Panasonic is thinking here… The GH line is supposed to be the more video one and the G9 the more photo one, but really, what difference is there? The line’s have got blurred I think and maybe it’s because everyone is trying to be ‘hybrid’ now but the market for all types of cameras is shrinking? Meanwhile, everyone under the sun is bringing out their own set of compact cine lenses.

I ran a pair of those for a season for my video needs alongside my stills work. Great little cameras but suffered a bit in low light and that is my biggest issue with 4/3...

Yep. It's a photo camera with a decent ability to flip to hybrid, but certainly no 'cinema' camera. Ditto. I never take my back up card out of the camera anyway so the micro would be just that. Certainly the Sony and probably the Lumix for me also. I am not enjoying the S5ii for stills. Not at all so very much will be switching to something else for 2024 that is at a level above my S1H which is my primary stills camera. I don't think the new Fz would be enough to take over that role as a 'step up' in any way, but I will consider the Fz as part of, if not totally as, a new system as video-wise, pretty comparable with the S5ii which is where this Lumix does shine. As a stills camera, meh. (S5ii). The Zf could be a great all round hybrid system but I'd want to try one first to see if I gelled with it.

As someone who lives half his life at weddings, I can assure 'you' (ie, folks in general) it is extremely rare to see a guest toting anything resembling a camera at a wedding and it's been that way for quite some years now. I might see the odd 60+ year old guest fumbling with an old DSLR or the occasional hipster with something Fuji flavoured, but otherwise nada, it's wall to wall phones and if they are not taking snaps with them, they are gazing at them for whatever enlightenment they individually receive from these devices.

Ditto. At first look, I like it. I’ll need to take a deeper dive but as a pure stills machine, VERY interesting. As a hybrid, on a par with the S5ii for me being around the same size and spec. Much better rear LCD so my real only question at this time is what is the shutter feel and sound like… Nikon are on a bit of a role right now with first the Z9, then the Z8 and now the Zf. Bodes well for any next gen Z6 and 7. I’m liking the skin jobs also. Plus, both Meike and Megadap do e-z Mount adapters meaning Tamron glass can be used and Tamron right now make my 3 favourite zoom lenses; the 20-40mm f2.8, 28-75mm f2.8 and the 35-150mm f2-2.8 Very interesting indeed. We shall dive deeper and consider…

Yes it’s quite ‘hilarious’ how so many view both wedding photography and videography as not being any kind of high brow art form. Yes, there’s a bunch of shit out there and the entry level is near zero, but we have to wear more hats on a job than any other genre of photo/video that exists. In real time with no second chance. And there are some folks doing some extraordinary stuff. Same as it’s ever been.

Poozon wrote: Regarding IBIS: I am grateful that Blackmagic does not add this feature. I have not heard of anybody using IBIS for video. I would not buy a video camera with IBIS. Poozon needs to get out more…but it’s his choice to not buy a camera with IBIS.

Yes please. It’s just some tech improvements I’d like, but the body is 👌 Can’t disagree with that! But then it is with so many Japanese companies! I’m all for 4/3 re-adopting the ‘micro’ tag…and maybe, just maybe, it will happen with OM System, but I think it would take a small miracle now with old Panny Boy. I think they have probably gone too far down the road now in 2 areas. 1. More focused on FF, ie, less focused on 4/3. 2. The market has to be shrinking for the format (4/3) surely so why would you invest? GH6 took sooooo long to arrive, it was not quite DOA, but the camera marketplace had moved along quite a bit. The G9ii has been largely praised by The Usual Suspects, but unless you needed a smaller system, honestly, next to an S5ii, would you? Maybe for someone with the lenses, but most I am pretty sure would pick up the full frame system for basically the same money. My favourite filming combo right now is the S5ii with Smallrig cage, side handle, Rode Micro or WG, Sigma 28-70mm f2.8 As someone who shoots mostly 4K 50p, it’s a relatively lightweight *cinematic* 42-105mm FF equivalent beast shooting log for the kind of run & gun event work I do. Right now, nothing I’d rather be using. Stills, now that is another matter. I don’t quite hate it for stills, just quietly despise it to the point I use my S1H for photography instead.

Well since we are talking about it then…😉 Yep, anything that isn’t 3:2 or even 4:3, wouldn’t cut it for me other than perhaps 8k 16:9, because of cropping for portrait format. I don’t use flash, instead using only available or constant so not such an issue for me and quite happy to shoot faster shutter speeds. But is it photography? IMO, no. Or at least not my definition of it and that’s what I am wrestling with… Not the definition, but whether I could trade a better on the day capture process ONLY doing video, but with the trade off being a somewhat tedious process of pulling 500+ stills per job. I’m thinking maybe I would not be happy with that as one of my favourite parts of my photography work is editing images. As of today at least, I’m now thinking of the 2 options open to me, A. being, invest in 6k 50p tech to pull stills or B. stay as is, shooting both and invest in a better stills camera than the one I have now. On balance, I am more interested in B. I think it’s more me and with a future career in it’s final 1/3rd, maybe I’ll just see my time out with what already works..

I agree with most of your thoughts Andrew except possibly two… The ‘chonky’ S5ii is fractionally smaller and lighter than the GH6, thought a tiny bit more than the old G9. Leading on from that, maybe…just maybe, they went with the S5 architecture because by doing so, it allowed them to develop the G9ii at a lower cost than with its own unique body? And they may even have not developed a G9ii otherwise and the GH6 might have been their last ever 4/3 body? But otherwise yes, totally agree. I would also liked to have seen 4/3 be a ‘micro’ sized camera, especially when some of the larger sensor stuff is getting smaller. Lenses aside, just look at a GFX 100S or Hassie X2D next to a GH6. The Fuji is only marginally bigger and heavier but the Hass is smaller and lighter! OK, different beasts I know, but anything bigger than the OM-1 is too big IMO for a 4/3 sensor camera.

Agreed. I am not that techy but would have thought…if it’s even possible, that it would need sending in to be done physically. But as I said, not that techy! Folks waited years for the GH6 but I guess you knew what you were buying so can’t be that affronted something else came along with PDAF because that was inevitable if Lumix were going to continue to exist as a camera brand. I have zero evidence to support that, but outside of some diehard Lumix users, their image was ‘great video specs but utter trash AF so it’s a pass’. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again but I am surprised a company does not exist who will retro-mod older bodies with newer tech. The body is just a shell and providing it is large enough, why not? They take older cars and put modern bits in them. We take old buildings and modernise them. Why not older camera bodies with new tech? Veering slightly off topic I know…

@Kino appreciate it 👍🙏👊

I read a report somewhere recently I think direct from Lumix saying it would not be going the 8k route. So I guess ‘developing’ 6k. Maybe a bit like Fuji not competing with ‘mainstream’ full-frame, but fighting on the sides with APSC and medium format, Lumix is going to buck the norm and do it’s own thing? Which could be great?