MrSMW

Not quite sure I’d call it a ‘cinema camera’? Can’t quite see the sequel to ‘The Creator’ being shot on one… But there was that movie shot on an iPhone so…

Re. ‘OG’ cams, does the S1H class as an OG cam? In my book it does and I am considering buying up a lifetime supply of mint condition used units… For anyone reading that doesn’t know, I am a 23 season wedding veteran, the last 12+ years a hybrid shooter. This season I have been running a pair of S5ii’s and a single S1H. Out of 10, I’d give the S1H a score of 9. The S5ii, maybe a 7. At best. The S1H kills the S5ii in almost every regard except for one, tracking AF and in that regard, it is not utterly terrible. In fact for my kind of use, it’s decent enough. So why and where does the S1H ‘kill’ the S5ii in my considered opinion? 1: Build. It’s built like a tank yet is not ridiculously heavy. Personally, I would not class it as ‘heavy’, even with the battery grip. By comparison, the S5ii doesn’t feel ‘cheap’, but doesn’t feel in the same league to me. 2: Ergos. I have shot over 100 full day shoots with this thing and with or without battery grip, it is by far the best camera to hold and use I have ever had. And I have had a lot of cameras over the years! 3: The Shooting Experience. It’s on another level to the S5ii. It’s just faster everywhere than the S5ii. It just works like you expect and want a tool like this to whereas with the S5ii, I’m willing it to catch up and watching it jump around sometimes using AF with the rear LCD and then questioning the focus, the exposure and even the colour because the rear LCD just sucks next to that of the S1H. Yep, sucks. For clarity, brightness, colour etc, the S1H rear LCD is the only monitor I need. 4: Video. I tried open gate 6k 30p on the S5ii and liked the quality, but as a PAL region user, found the workaround in certain lighting conditions a pain in the arse. I also use a lot of modest speed (50%) slow mo and only able to achieve 80% with the S5ii is a bit of a bummer. But then the S1H can’t do it so I’m back to shooting 4k 50p on both. This is where it’s a tie for me. On one hand the S5ii allows me to burn in a LUT which is my preferred way of working. On the other hand, I think the quality of the S1H video is slightly higher and more ‘filmic’, possibly due to that OLPF taking a bit of digital edge off it? 5. Stills. S1H easily. It just works. All day long. The S5ii just slows me down and almost always is slower to acquire focus, doesn’t feel as confident when it thinks it’s found it and the shutter button sound and tactility is shit next to that of the S1H. Yup, shit. I fkn hate it. Also, again, no moire issues with the files from the S1H and slightly more ‘filmic’ possibly as a result making this thing an equally capable and underrated stills machine as it is for video. 6. Battery life. No contest, the S1H just kicks the backside of the S5ii. Conclusion. The S5ii has better and more reliable AF in forward tracking scenarios. That’s its sole win. It can’t even argue cost as mint used S1H’s are now at similar levels. Oh and it can burn in a LUT. No dealbreaker and my workflow would be easier if the S1H could and I wish they would add that feature in firmware but does not look likely now…? 9/10 for S1H and an easy win then, but where could it be improved for me? A. Ideally, next gen, 6k 50p open gate, no crop. That’s it, I’m done remainder of my career. B. Ability to burn in a LUT. It’s a given any S1 line replacement will get that. C. More pixels please. I’d like to retire my 70-200 and I could get away with that (talking stills here) with something say 45+mp. The sensor from the S1R produced even better video (and stills) IMO, but a love child of the S1R and the S1H would be a perfect union for me. With a couple of updates of course. Beyond that, I can’t think of a single thing. The S1H is the closest thing to camera perfection I have ever used. I suspect of the current crop, only the Z8 could run it close or probably beat it but I’d need to test one properly in my real world use case work days to know for sure, but then whole new ecosystem and huge cost etc… So my hope now is Lumix creates my next camera and has it available on the market by March 2024 latest because if there is no sign of that, the temptation to try a Z8 over the Winter… The bottom line is as a full-time working pro, I need kit that A. just works and B. just gets out of the way and C. ideally, I enjoy using. The S5ii kind of works, but does NOT get out of the way and (for me) is not a joy to use. The S1H is my OG and ticks all 3 boxes.

All makes sense and I think the conclusion is ‘Dual Native Auto ISO’ doesn’t work how I thought/hoped it might so will stick with 640 or 4000 with the variable for exposure being the use of the VND. However, based on that video (seen, but a while back), I might manually use those ranges he suggested of 640-1250 and 4000-6400 because sometimes, the native 640 or 4000 are not quite ‘enough’. I do have these things set as C3-1 (outdoor) and C3-2 (indoor) already with a fixed ISO and tweaked WB for each based on the baked in (shock horror) Phantom LUT that I use. C3-3 is Flat profile for when it’s really dark and Vlog at 4000 even without the VND is not enough. It’s a pity you can’t dial in and define your own auto range and default though, but maybe there is not enough demand for that kind of thing or the tech does not exist? At least I’m not going to be quite so rigid about sticking religiously with 640 and 4000 and will give those ranges a try. The Phantom LUT recommendation by the way is neutral exposure but actually I don’t agree and find that +1 is generally a better result. But it depends on the scene of course and the highlights and yada yada… Thanks for your input @Roger 👍

Thanks @Roger watched that one. I have watched them all! I still don’t get it… I understand the Low setting and the High setting but not the Auto setting which if it is basically the same as for stills, the camera chooses anything from your min to max setting which for me with Vlog is 640-6400. So what exactly is the point of it if it uses anything between 640 and 6400 and doesn’t set itself to either 640 or 4000 and those two values only? That sounds to me like something labelled an ‘automatic gearbox’ but you need to change gears manually. Huh? You mean it’s a manual gearbox?! Surely just manually setting (as I have always done) either 640 or 4000 is the best option? Assuming using shutter angle and VND, other than aperture, exposure is purely controlled by the use of that VND with a fixed ISO. For me, outdoors, 640. Indoors 4000. But what is this setting ‘Dual Native ISO Setting’ that is not the high or low setting actually doing? Unless… despite it apparently fluctuating anywhere between 640-6400 and giving me readings such as 800,1600,3200 or 6400 on the monitor display, it is behind the scenes as it were, actually only recording either 640 or 4000 and you just have to trust that it is? If this is the case, then great and that is the answer, though I have not been able to find any human or otherwise answer to this on this planet or off-World to date. If however, it’s actually recording 800 or 1600 or 3200 or 6400, it’s just recording at those actual ISO’s then yes it’s an ‘auto ISO’ setting, but not an ‘auto native ISO’ setting. Or again, maybe I am missing something…

I understand it perfectly ie, 640 is the first native for the cleanest image and 4000 is the second so ideally stick to one of those such as 640 outdoors and 4000 inside. But what is dual native iso setting in the menu? Options are: Auto, Low, High I presumed that set to Auto, using Auto ISO, the camera will choose either 640 or 4000 depending on the available light…but that does not seem to be the case as using Auto ISO, it will be anywhere between 640-6400 (the upper limit I set). I’ve always just set it manually to either 640 if outdoors or 4000 if in, using Vlog, but I cannot find any info on-line? There are dozens of videos etc from Panasonic and others that explain what dual native iso is, ie, 640 base, gets noisier, cleans up again at 4000 before getting noisier again, which is easy to understand. But beyond that, I can’t find any info… My question is, just continue to manually choose 640 or 4000, or is there some kind of auto setting where the camera will go to the most appropriate? Or possibly I am over-thinking it. Or possibly I missing some bit of info and the penny will drop. Cheers Lumix buddies.

I haven't watched it but I guess yes, a G would be a clue 😜

G9 replacement or if you are me, S1 line replacements?

I think…actually I know, that if I had not already been invested in L Mount when the S5ii came out, I would have gone with a pair of FX30’s with probably the A7iv for primarily stills but occasional hybrid use. If Lumix (or Leica or Sigma) don’t have something like an S2R available by end of March, in stock, then it’s fairly inevitable for me it will be throwing my lot in 100% with Sony. Pair of FX30’s and a single A7RV which will allows me to do away with the 70-200 and crop instead because you know, megapixels. I would rather NOT switch primarily from a cost point of view because buying one single body and selling maybe one lens (the 70-200) if any ‘S2R’ has around 60mp, is a MUCH better option than trading 3 bodies and 7 lenses for a new system! So we will see. I think if making a decision from scratch re. a system for my specific needs at any point this year, it would be as above. Nikon a close second and Fuji third. Or maybe I’ll just trade the S1H and get another S1R which are uber-cheap on the used market now… Cheap, but 60mp vs 47mp allows a bit more cropping latitude for my stills work if I want to shift the 70-200 and I’d rather have PDAF even though for stills it’s less of an issue.

It was, but also I imagine a super high end set of cine lenses, big crew, decent budget and at least one pro colourist. Still good bragging rights for any FX3 owners for sure!

Oh I know about that one and skipped it but next year I think I’ll definitely change it up as I’ve had the original since it came out and those upgrades are it worthwhile for me.

Well if any of that is actually going to come to pass as the Lady Galadriel would say, it sounds like sticking with 6k and not chasing 8k? To quote Top Gun, ballsy move. So maybe FF 4 and 6k 50/60p with the next gen? Hope so and works for me. Intrigued by the compact zoom… I presume 70-200 and if so, please make it a constant aperture unlike some options out there. I don’t mind if it’s shorter than 200, or even shorter both ends so something like a 50-150mm f2.8 I probably wouldn’t complain if it was f4 because you know, zoom, outdoors and all that. I’m done with big gear now. I left Nikon for Fuji 12 years ago dumping the built in grip pairing of D3S bodies with 24-70 and 70-200 to go ultra lightweight. And it was liberating, but year on year, the bloat has gradually sneaked it’s way back in. My current main stills unit is 2.8kg FFS! 1.5kg max going forward…

For the original one? Mine was one sending and one receiving unit. Having 2 sending units will be better for my work because I can mic the celebrant and a designated speaking point such as a mic stand. I will still almost certainly sync to the individual lav mics anyway, but sometimes the Rode Go straight to camera stuff is good enough.

Taken it back off the list along with the Hassie X2D. I already know what I am doing if something from L Mount does not appear within the next 3-6 months max and I think if I was still a pure photographer, I would go (or already have gone) digital medium format. But as I ‘do video’ also, FF and/or APSC make more sense.

But seriously, compared with the original, all I am interested in is: Being able to mic 2 people or points instead of 1. Better range (though not had a problem) Locking mech as I HAVE had folks pull out lav mic cables, you know; weddings and alcohol… The floaty bit. Just in case the talent can’t swim.

It's on The List if Lumix doesn't make me an S2R...

That’s good because I clicked the link to the Sony jobbies and my wallet cleared it’s throat in such a manner, I got the message immediately 😉

Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 but the FF 28-70mm works really well on APSC becoming an equivalent 42-105 without the bulk and weight of a FF 24-70, never mind an actual 24-105 on a FF body. Other than Fuji, I’m not sure I could go back to APSC, for stills/work, but with something like the 40mp XT5, maybe… For video, quite happy shooting crop, especially if shooting different bodies as I currently am. And that is the appeal of something like these new Sony’s… I used to shoot Fuji X Pro2 as my main stills workhorses loving the form factor with primes. One of my options is to go back to that and these new cameras have a lot of appeal…except that lack of 2 card slots and I’m used to 2.1 million dot rear LCD’s… Now if Lumix, Leica or Sigma was to pop out a rangefinderesque body of 60mp… OK, Sigma already does with it’s FP-L and it’s build and form factor are my ideal…but it otherwise falls apart for me after that with; no IBIS, no tilt screen, no twin card slots, Banding City indoors due to it’s electronic only shutter 😏

Might have been a special offer on them at the time or something but I remember them being slightly cheaper than the opposition. And I liked their branding 😉

Should we be surprised? A: It’s Sony B: These little bodies without fans or cooling are going to wilt compared to others with air con. Like Lumix. I get it that some want a single dinky camera that can do it all but the reality is that there’s always a compromise somewhere. And don’t I know it as someone chasing that very thing…but accepting it’s tricky to say the least. I think there is a very obvious solution, but it comes down to budget and having 2 bodies. With this size and type of body. As I mentioned above, I really want to like the R version as it ticks so many boxes for me. But for stills only, ie, I would not buy it for video other than occasional hybrid use in a pinch. The other one would’’t interest me for stills (because the R exists) and nor for video because the FX30 exists. The 6700 to me also falls into that category of doesn’t suit my needs but would make sense for those who value the most compact kit and keep it all APSC. Then there is the Z one whatever it’s called (so many in the Sony family I suspect they have issues with birth control) which kind of sits between the 6000 line and the A7C line… Pick of the bunch for me is that pairing of A7CR plus FX30, but then may as well get the cheaper (single unit and lens compared with at minimum, 2 bodies and 2 lenses) and better A7RV. In fact, I’d go as far and say that right now, other than my Lumix wishes/requirement’s for the next 6 months, it’s the leading contender and has leapfrogged the Nikon Z8/9 not just as a body, but for the entire ecosystem of lens options. The ONLY real question I have is would I enjoy using it… I enjoyed my Nikons, my Fuji X cameras and mostly, my current Lumix, but less so the various Sony’s I have had. But to be fair, they were compacts and bridge cameras. He sits. He waits. He watches. He contemplates…

In the eu, at least when I bought mine, they were quite reasonable compared with some others. Might be different in the Land of Oz?

2 deal-breakers for me, as expected. Rear LCD. Nah. Single card slot. Nah. Does make the A7RV an even more interesting option and looking ever more tempting for mainly stills, occasional B/C roll video. Compact, relatively lightweight, has the lens options I actually want, can crop considerably so do away with any/all chunky zooms such as 70-200 etc. Whether I’d go all in with Sony is another matter but the dark side has some allure with the pairing of FX3 and FX30 for video work… Patience Grasshopper. When L Mount reveal their hand, I will make my decision…but that in itself is time limited because the next ‘whatever’ needs to be in my hands end of March 2024 no delays or hiccups…

It is a concern as I have one of the 2TB drives in question with a model number on ‘The List’. It’s my principal video download and working drive and has been all year. Not a problem to date and hopefully it will continue that way. But as above, as soon as I have downloaded cards after a job, I do back up both working SSD’s to another drive and have a spare back up portable drive for emergency purposes.

Currently Prograde 256’s and XCii 128’s (plus Kingston and Angelbird CF Express but can’t use those currently as none of my cameras use them). Only ever had one card issue and that was about 12 years ago when a colleague borrowed one for a shoot and it came back and stopped working. Coincidence…?? I have a protocol which is: 1. I only use cameras that write to 2 slots and write to both of them. 2. Download to portable SSD’s, one for photo and one for video and then 3. copy both to either an external HD if at home or armored portable SSD if on the road. 4. As soon as any work is finished, a copy of that goes on-line and also goes on the HD. 5. Only then will I delete the material of the SSD’s.

Updated that for you Mr Unchained.

Glad I helped someone spend their money 😉 But seriously it is ‘the best’ camera I have had to date. I would just prefer it now if it had PDAF and more megapixels for the stills side of my work. It doesn’t need to be 8k as 6k would be more than enough for me as long as it is ideally FF at 50p. And if open gate, even better. Internal ND welcome, but not a dealbreaker. I’d settle for everything the same and just phase plus even 30mp. I reckon it will be more than that because to be competitive in marketing terms and therefore sales, it will have to compete on the camera arms race. Quite possibly. Would that be an S2H spec or an S2R? Or are we going to see what was/is 3 bodies become 2? Personally, I’d rather see 1, but modular as in you can pick and choose various spec options to order. I don’t know if that is feasible though. Probably not… The ergos, handling and sheer difference between the S1R and S2H was pretty annoying…