MrSMW

I won't make any future moves until he has 'spoken'.

Well, it’s like so many things in life and that is we can research and analyse and talk all we want about something, but it’s only real world experience that gives you the answer. So many times I have come close to ditching the S1H but every single bloody time, it keeps coming back to the same result and that is it is The Daddy. Not for stills, the new Daddy there is the Sony A7RV, but as my run & gun unit paired with the Sigma 28-70 f2.8, it is The GOAT. Yes the S5ii has better AF and…well it has better AF and is lighter but otherwise, nope. S9 lighter and smaller still and with better AF but otherwise nope. Whatever comes along in terms of the next gen S1H will probably dethrone the S1H but for video, best camera I have ever had and was for photo until the Sony came into my life.

^ THIS ^ ^ AND THIS ^

Well, having slept on it for another night, I have concluded that I'm sending it back. Somewhat reluctantly because I do like it and the cost difference aside as in, is it worth €1000 more (with cage) than the S1H? the answer is no. It's not worth anything more and in fact less. To me. It's not so much a case as I went too small and too light because there are certain qualities to that, but the loss of all the other factors I listed above; the screen, the card slots etc, ie, the sheer 'pro' qualities and confidence that comes from that, for me outweighs what, the S9 gives me. And yes, I could go with a third S5ii very easily and it would make a lot of sense and is IMO a better option than the S9, but the S1H is better still as an individual unit. That extra bit of chunk negates the need for any kind of grip (compared with a S5ii with battery grip or cage) and my only very slight reservation is outright AF...but I have other units to cover that. The other upside of keeping the S1H and sending back the S9 is it leaves the potential open to see what Lumix might do with any S1H successor next year, ie, potentially trading in an already massively devalued S1H vs losing a whole chunk on a lightly used S9, is also preferable. And I hate change. Detest it. I think I was just a bit too rash with this one, but hey ho.

True. I am still debating whether it's a better option for me than not the S5ii, but the S1H... It is eating at the corners of my mind that the S9 is possibly a bit too small and light... It is and has been something I am chasing (compactness rather than than the above) and I have achieved that on the stills side, but having now used it and slept on it, I'm wondering if I went too far in that direction with the S9. The S9 is just under 500g and the S1H, +650g so more than double, but the S9 needs a cage and side handle so about halves that difference making it far less significant. The S1H has: 1. A better and more robust articulating rear screen plus it's a much brighter and clearer and bigger screen. I work solely off the rear screen so it's very important. (Something stopped me going Sony for video). 2. It has 2x card slots and that lack of backup with the S9 is playing on my mind. 3. It has an OLPF. 4. It has a bigger battery. I don't care what the official battery stats of something like 400 shots for the S1H vs the 470 or whatever of the S9/S5ii because the S1H battery offers FAR more than that of the S5ii/S9. 5. It is much more robust and weather-proof. 6. It costs nothing as I own it and has a trade in value of only around €700 whereas the S9 cost €1600, so is nearly €1000 cheaper as a value proposition based only on cost. The S9 counters with being smaller and lighter, but that is it. At least in regard to anything I need or value.

Actually, I think I’ll give my old vintage Carl Zeiss 40-80mm f3.5 a go on this body as on the freestanding monopod, it might be quite a good option. Might even work with Lidar and some gearing?

Well it didn’t overheat… Actually, it worked pretty well. Still waiting for the lightweight cage from Smallrig but received confirmation it has now been shipped and is on its way. in the meantime, I mostly used it on a cheap, lightweight, freestanding monopod and I’m going to go back to using one after a year or so of not as I really like the stable shot. Otherwise it was about as lightweight and small as a full frame set up can be and that was great. It’s not that much smaller or lighter than an S5ii and the S5ii is a better camera really in pretty much every regard except size & weight, but I like the little thing and it meets my needs. The output is going to be the same as my S5ii’s so the real test was how it worked compared with one ergonomically really. Without the cage, not as a good, but once that arrives in a few days and I can also put a side handle on it, it will beat the S5ii. The only final factor really is do I stick with the versatility of the compact Sigma 28-70 f2.8, or take a look at a cine lens with lidar as that option is of interest. But not this year. I can’t be doing with any more changes to my kit!

This, plus: Plus: Or my pick which would be a used Lumix S5ii for approx $€£ 1500 There’s a range of quality f1.8 primes and some very tasty but slightly pricey zooms. Or there are some excellent f2 primes from Sigma and some equally as excellent, but cheaper zooms. I’d probably consider the latest 28-45mm f1.8 as a 3x prime zoom set up in a single unit, ie, 28, 35 and ‘nearly 50’. That would set you back another 1.5k and it’s so new, no used options yet. Total running budget, 3k so as long as that focal length is both wide and long enough, add in some of todays cheap but excellent lighting and you are good to go. Some audio also obviously, but all in without going crazy, 3.5-4k max?

Yes, I mean exactly that. It was my sole video camera for an entire season. No full length ceremony or speeches etc, but hundreds of clips throughout the day. I’ll go see if I can find anything on Vimeo but it might be a bit old now…!!

Ha, so am I... But seriously, other than any kind of manufacturer glitch, I think it will do well in it's role. It's getting chucked in at the deep end on Saturday as my sole video unit (this couple have not booked full ceremony or speeches coverage which is covered by my pair of S5II's) and a shame it won't be super-hot weather to really test it. I'm not sure what's going on with the weather this year but it will be the 8th out of 9 weddings in a row where the forecast says great weather 2-3 days either side of the actual wedding day. Only one however had a bit of rain and nothing serious and another was cloudy with a chance of meatballs, but otherwise the forecast has been wrong. It's currently saying 29-34 Celsius each of the 3 days either side and 26 & very cloudy wedding day. I am doing something a bit different however and going back to burning a LUT into the footage. It's a nice clean 'ARRI' job from Phantom and side by side with every other conversion LUT I have tested, by far the best. It just makes editing so much easier than dropping a LUT on every single piece of footage or even dragging an adjustment layer and doing it that way. It worked fine all of last year and I'm not really sure why I went back to not doing it for this, but returning to it and I find it just makes everything easier including exposure when I can see on the LCD (combined with the WFM) fairly accurately what it will look like. I can't remember my in camera hue & sat adjustments however so will need to work that one out again over the next few jobs. And worst case scenario with the S9 if it does not work out for any reason? Easy, a third used S5II. The new Nikon Z6III could probably give it a run for it's money or even beat it, I dunno, - haven't really looked, but for my video needs, the S5II is exceptional. Size, weight, form factor, 2 card slots and can write to both unlike some (Nikon), class leading IBIS (no gimbal required huzzah), 6k 30p Open Gate internal and zero banding shooting it if you use the right settings. And factor in the price, especially used... The S1H is now off on Friday as is the Zf and Z6II. I wish I could keep the S1H and use it for something, but the reality is it would just be a paperweight and gathering dust now as with the pair of S5II's and now the S9, it just does not have a role. A better camera in various aspects, but I'd rather have the cash than it sit on a shelf. The Zf and Z6II were only ever an experiment and 'place holders' in advance of the Z6III and if for any reason, my new (used) Sony A7RV doesn't work out, I think it would be my first and only choice, but nah, 99% certain I have the Sony in hand now and for my purposes, sit's in it's own class all factors considered, at this present time. Glass though... If Sigma make a bigger brother to that 28-45mm f1.8 such as a 50-100, it's game over for my 3x Tamron lenses because as good as they are, the above pairing on an A7RV would be a dream. But as only one of them exists and I like to have things within a system, no plans unless they make a pair. To conclude, as far as I am concerned, I think...I THINK, I'm done for this year and hopefully longer. I genuinely hate jumping around and making changes. I find it extremely painful, but at the same time, there is a balance of tools required for my very specific needs and as I have mentioned many times, there is no manual for what I do so it is very much a trial & error process. I really thought I was starting the year with a set of tools I would not make any adjustments to for the entire season, but as always, the real world stepped in and coughed in my face. This stuff is tried & tested though now (well the S9 is technically 'new', but actually it's the same as an S5II, just with a few limitations that are not limitations for my purposes), especially the Lumix video side, but also the Sony now as I've actually had 8 shooting days with it. I'll shut up now. Just been waiting for my phone to charge 😚

And *cough* a lot of CGI!

You jest, but a few years back, I did, as an alternative to a Go Pro with the Backbone rig and lens options but in the end went for a Sony RX100V which I shot all my video on for a year but ended up changing it for it’s bigger brother, the RX10ii. It truly was a case of pull it out of my back pocket to shoot with or have on a lightweight freestanding monopod. The simple reality though was 35+ Celsius French Summers either in direct sunlight or in that back pocket! I think if I’d kept it in a small portable cool bag, it could have worked! I wouldn’t go back now but super compact options have huge appeal!

Z6iii + 28-75mm f2.8 Tamron now available in Z Mount? This was my workhorse, but adapted on the Zf and my only criticism was that the handling of the Zf, even with one of the available grips, was not great, plus the lack of in camera corrections using non-native lenses. The Z6iii fixes all of that. The Z8 also with the added benefit of being able to punch in even harder. For my needs, a 28-75mm on a 24mp sensor means it cannot be a ‘one and done’ set up as the focal length is too short for certain situations. The A7RV makes it almost though with only a couple of scenarios as in crop mode, it’s a 26mp ‘40-110’ with equal quality to a 24mp FF sensor camera. The Z8 with 45mp sits somewhere in the middle but for me is not quite enough to be ‘one & done’ and I think I’d go Z6iii myself between the two. 100mp would be my ideal. Not because I need 100mp because I don’t really need 60, but for that ability to have a compact ‘one & done’ camera and lens combo with a true 2x crop mode turning the 28-75 into a ‘50-150’ f2.8 I looked really hard at the Fuji GFX100 series and though I really like the body, there are no lens options unless I push the size & weight back up. I was hoping that Nikon might replace the Z7ii with a Z7iii but there does not seem to be any sign…

It’s the main reason I post, ie, if my experience shared helps someone else with their own deliberations, then it was a worthwhile effort. Re. cams & glass, right now if from scratch, I’d put the Z8 and Z6iii up near the top, except for the lenses. By the sounds of it, like me, you’d rather have more compact zooms and no one really makes them except Sony, Tamron and Sigma. Sony bodies offer the most options because they can use all 3 natively. I really like the idea of the A7cii or r, but the reality is, especially the r, other than outright size & weight (and price), the A7RV is just better everywhere really whether it be rear LCD articulation and rez, the EVF, handling, twin card slots. And used, the prices are not too bad. It’s always some form of compromise in the end but right now, other than perhaps cost, the A7RV with compact primes is an exceptional option. Just don’t shoot medium raw in low light 🤪

And then he went and did another 180 🤪 Went back and tried the S1H + battery grip + over 1kg lens and...just no. I wanted to get away from that for very specific reasons. I thought, maybe I could go back, but no, I just can't. Well if I had to as in if there was no other choice, I could, but there are there options. I've wrestled with it for a few days and in the end decided to stick with the original plan. That is for video, I am covered. Not a single thing that I want or need. Rien, nada, nuffin. It's the photo side where I have had the biggest issue, but other than the very occasional random lock up issue on the A7RV, it's just the best tool for me combined with the trinity of Tamron 20-40, 28-75 and 70-180. I had to send the Samyang 35-150 back. It's just too big and heavy and that's just not for me anymore. The arrival of the S9 also helped put things in perspective because although that is purely a video unit for me..and I am still waiting on the cage just to give it some grip really, it confirmed that smaller and lighter combos is my direction. I also worked out a better way to make the 61mp A7RV work for me in that I chose it principally because it would give me the option to shoot uncompressed 61mp raw files for the max quality, but also at the turn of a dial, 26mp medium raw files which would be 85-90% of my work. Except no batch editing de-noise software will touch those files which is not something widely reported and unless you experience it and then go looking for the info... Anyway, I have reset the thing for full uncompressed raw as a setting, compressed raw as another and uncompressed crop mode as a third and flitting between those 3 modes, will reduce my file and storage size to around 40% (compared with only having to use the full 61mp uncompressed). Every time I think I've finally nailed it, there's something, but this time, I believe I have... Lumix is now a 2.5 year old system for me and my only concern (very slight) is potential overheating on the S9, but I suspect that is going to be extremely unlikely based on my use case. I've used the Sony on 3 jobs now and whilst I had a few teething issues, I think as with most tools, if you can get past a certain point, it becomes to come together. I think I just had to ride out that learning curve plus the medium raw thing was a big disappointment. The thing that finally convinced me though was I had to go back to edit the final job I shot on 24mp Nikon and though those files are easier to work with SOOC, they are not on the same level as the 61mp Sony files ultimately. Sorry for wasting everyone's time 😘

S9 in da house. Cage still on back order…and it really needs it as not having any kind of grip is at the moment my only gripe. I knew that when I ordered it though and it’s just a matter of time… Gets it’s first run out a week today and will be my sole video unit for that job as the couple have not booked full ceremony or video coverage/productions, so will be interesting to see if shooting approx 250x 10 second clips can produce any overheating issues. I suspect it will not, but one of my S5ii’s will be on standby just in case. Provided it passes that test, it will remain as my lightweight run & gun unit paired with the Sigma 28-70mm f2.8 and Rode Micro. Total weight including cage when it arrives, around 1kg which is nuts for a 6k 30p, no gimbal required, handheld beast.

Black Magic just called and asks that you hold their beer. But aside from them, yes, something of very high importance to me as someone that does not want to and cannot rig out a camera, ie, principally add an additional monitor. Not just the size, but the resolution and as someone who works solely off the rear LCD, anything under 2000 wotsits is a bit weak for me. So I for one would welcome 5” rear LCD’s with articulation a la Z9/S1H/A7RV and at the expense of rear dials etc in favour of touch functions. In fact, I’d say it could be the next big step in future camera design which is still very traditional. That and modularity which is not exploited enough. Begin with a box and then add stuff stuff as multiple choices of grips and screens as a start.

OK it’s raw, but that is 13x the 6k 30p I use 🤯

What is the niche part? Genuinely curious! The only thing missing for me personally is a fast compact long zoom like Tamron’s 70-180 f2.8 Otherwise lens-wise, there is just about anything you could wish for, native, adapted, cine… OK body-wise, we’re waiting on a replacement for the S1H and S1R, but they are still highly capable and the S1R produces IMO the nicest files SOOC with their 5k Flat profile. The Leica SL3 hints at what should be coming, though even if I had the cash, I would not spring for one as it’s not a good value proposition to me. And maybe (hopefully) Sigma will also pop something out a la FP series again… The bottom line is there are pros and cons to all systems but it seems that L Mount just has the least cons for me. Canon actually remains the only major brand I have never owned. Ticked the boxes for; Lumix, Nikon, Fuji, Sony and Olympus, but Canon has always evaded me. Or I have evaded it…

The S1H is the best camera ever made. Full stop. Stills or video. OK, maybe for some people, it isn't, but in my experience and for my needs, it has just been the best camera I have ever had and it's going back to being my stills camera. In the hand, it's near perfect. Only the Canon R3 beats it for me for handling/ergos, being taller but lighter, but compared with anything else, hands down the best for me. Shutter button and sound? Sublime. AF speed and accuracy for stills? Very high. AF for video? Not as bad as some think. Rendering for video or stills? Extremely high and better than my S5II's for sure. Battery life? Superb. IBIS? Excellent. 6k 30p open gate at 200mbps. Overheating? Ha, the S1H laughs at the very concept. Value? Stupidly high on the used market. It doesn't have the LUT features of say the latest Lumix and other cameras such as the new Canon's and I doubt that will come in firmware, but that's not an issue for me. I can't believe I was going to retire it...

Well that went tits up... First the fact that 26mp medium raw is not compatible with any current batch editing software which meant shooting everything at 61mp which was not the plan. Then the thing keeps locking up. Or rather not switching on at random times forcing battery out, battery in, which is hardly ideal at key moments. It has happened now 2-3 times on each of the 3 shoots I have used it on. Not good enough. Plus it just is not as good in low light as the Nikon Zf/Z6II or any of my 24mp Lumix cameras. It just isn't. So I'm returning it and selling everything Nikon and Tamron. For what? My trusty fave camera of all time, my S1H which has a ridiculous trade in value of around €700. OK, I need to buy a couple of lenses and I have to compromise on my stills camera set up going back to between 2.5/3kg in my hand, but it also puts €6k+ back into my account. Lesson learned. L Mount is just the best system for me so I need to stop dicking about with any and everything else. Samyang 35-150mm f2/2.8 arriving next week in time for my next shoot and Sigma 28-45mm f1.8 on preorder for my indoor and low light lens. Oh well, I tried. S9 arrives tomorrow and was going to replace one of the S5II's which in turn replaced the S1H which was going to be sold, but it's simply a case of repurpose the S1H back into being a stills camera, a role it has fulfilled before superbly. And will once again. Maybe an S2R or S2H next year, but for the rest of this one, probably not. S5II x2 in a static role for video + S9 run & gun + S1H stills. Done. For now...

Unless you absolutely need full frame 4k 60p, the S5ii is a video powerhouse and bargain.

That’s the only thing for me, - I would quite happily shoot f4 zooms all day long outdoors and do generally shoot f4 for more candid things and f5.6 for forward tracking or long static shots (where the subject might be moving around a little but focus is locked) and while f2.8 is OK in lower light, after dark even that is pushing it a bit for light gathering purposes. Still not decided though whether a cheap f1.8 prime will do it or whether I splurge on that new Sigma 28-45 which would be perfect for indoor/night use…

Well I do and I don't... 2 of my 4 cameras have battery grips on them and my S1H used to! What I mean is I would prefer a built in grip a la Z9 and R3 rather than screw on ones because I will either use a camera with or without, but never change the set up, if you know what I mean? My pair of S5ii's have a battery grip welded on as both live on tripods for longer form stuff and I'd rather not risk a battery needing to be changed, but the battery grips allow hot swapping so as long as I have spare batteries, until the cards run out! Also, if I am going to be using anything as large as, or larger than a 24-105, I definitely want a grip or I find it's just an unwieldy set up having big heavy lenses on gripless bodies. One of last year's set ups was just crazy though and the was S1H + grip + Leica 24-90 and it was pushing 3kg. I don't run anything now over 1.5kg if I can help it and only have one combo that goes slightly over. I'm trying to shrink everything as much as I can re. anything I have to physically carry or have attached to my person and my current set up is the most capable vs compact, yet. I would have made an exception with one Canon combo though and that would have been the R3 with the 24-105mm f2.8 and only 2 factors put me off... Cost and 24mp. I would have swallowed the first if that body had been or had an option for 45mp because it would then have negated the need for me to have anything but one single 'one & done' lens.

I would have just liked the spec of the R5 in the R3 body and would have switched to Canon as they have 2 lenses that would really work for me and that body is by far the best I have ever handled. I hate add on battery grips but also ‘need’ more than 24 mega pixies…