MrSMW

The Tamron 17-70mm f2.8 is a better lens than the Sony 18-105mm f4. IMO. The former can be had for either Fuji X Mount or Sony but the latter Sony only. Obviously. That Sony lens will be OK outdoors in good light, but otherwise… Depends on your needs but if Panny is out of the running and that budget is fixed…

The positions seem to have changed when I clicked the link myself, but hey ho, I'm sure you will work it out!

I had a play on Camera Size: https://camerasize.com/compact/#887.1042,908.1081,895.955,901.879,907.901,ha,t From left to right, we have: OM-1 + 12-40 (24-80) f2.8 as a M4/3 contender. It is both larger and heavier than the... Fuji X-S20 which is one of the 2 APSC players here, but with the pretty tiny Sigma 18-50 (27-75) f2.8...but please note, the next camera along, the FX30 has the Tamron 17-70 (26-105) f2.8 I was recommending...and did not attach it here to the X-S20, because it was not an option. Next up is the FX30 which is no smaller really than the full-frame S5ii and arguably not as a capable. The S5ii I stuck the 24-70 f2.8 on it because the smaller and lighter Sigma 28-70 f2.8 (my pick) was not an option (though is in the real world). And just for reference, I stuck on the end a 'pro' camera, the Nikon Z8 with 24-70 f2.8 IMO, for your money and needs, I'd struggle to see past the Fuji with the Tamron lens which is not only the most compact of these set ups, but offers the greatest focal range and I believe ticks all your boxes. Without having to make any compromises. I would quite happily shoot Fuji X professionally for all my video and stills needs and did for many years.

Rather than NOT waiting for that next gen is what I meant ☝️

I feel the same. The tools I have at my disposal now are on a completely different level. Today it is about what I can financially justify rather than using what is available but waiting for that next gen. I can’t think of a single ‘next gen’ thing I want or need and that is partly because I know it already exists for my needs.

Is it Jack, or is it Jake? Let's get our facts straight here.

Sounds too good to be true. That would otherwise be ridiculous value...but it doesn't ring true just based on price. IBIS has more axis of stabilisation than lens OIS, but yes, you don't need lens stab if you have it in the body...though if both have it and they play nicely together, better still. Stabilisation is a whole topic on it's own though as in what do you want it to be? Locked off almost tripod like? Fuji is good at this. Wave it around like a gimbal? Olympus or latest Nikon very good. But back on price, you could get an OG S5 within the budget, but not a S5ii with a lens.

I just know that at some point, maybe next year, maybe the year after, I am going to get some hipster stood next to granny with her iPad, shooting one of these things…

Concise summary of so much rumor regardless of brand when it comes to rumors. I still look occasionally myself though… 🤪

I looked at doing this partly because I liked the idea of this tiny micro camera but also just because ☝️

27-83mm vs 26-105mm at a constant aperture of f2.8, but at the expense of OIS…but you get IBIS with the X-S20, so IMO yes, both the body and lens are better. Forget the UK prices folks. Since Brexit, us EU people have to pay import duty. I can’t find an S5ii under 1850 euros and for the kind of focal range the OP wants, it’s 500+ for a lens with the 20-60 being a fine lens, though a bit slow and too short. The 24-105 f4 is good, great even, but the size & weight of the package is now creeping up as is the cost…and if it’s non-pro work, how inclined are you going to be to lug something around unless it’s fairly compact? I think APSC is your sweet spot here and it’s that Fuji + the Tamron 17-70 😜

27-83mm vs 26-105mm at a constant aperture of f2.8, but at the expense of OIS…but you get IBIS with the X-S20, so IMO yes, both the body and lens are better. Forget the UK prices folks. Since Brexit, us EU people have to pay import duty. I can’t find an S5ii under 1850 euros and for the kind of focal range the OP wants, it’s 500+ for a lens with the 20-60 being a fine lens, though a bit slow and too short. The 24-105 f4 is good, great even, but the size & weight of the package is now creeping up as is the cost…and if it’s non-pro work, how inclined are you going to be to lug something around unless it’s fairly compact? I think APSC is your sweet spot here and it’s that Fuji + the Tamron 17-70 😜

Then back to this then: Fuji X-S20 used Excellent condition (MBP) plus new Tamron 17-70mm f2.8 (28-105 equivalent) At least, it would be my pick at this budget.

It's true, I looked myself! So you either need to: Go grey import, or, Up your budget by +500 euros, or, Buy something else!

A VERY strong contender for me and could have been an outright winner for me, except for one thing, and that is I am taking the MarkusPix 'one and done' approach and including a lens. There isn't a single lens in the L Mount line up that swings it for me. If I had to pick just one, it would be the Sigma 28-70mm f2.8 to pair it with, but then at 24mp, too short for my needs. But purely as a camera body, for stills and video, I'd choose it over anything and everything else.

TDimension are another of these Hong Kong/China based companies aren’t they? I have used a few before such as Digital Rev back when I used to live in the UK 7+ years ago, but avoid now. When it works, it’s fine and you get a great deal, but if you wish to do a return or have a warranty issue, good luck with that. This is where it goes wrong for folks and all the 1 star ratings come in. You pay less, but you roll the dice using them. I would not. You might. Better the used market with someone like MBP.

As someone that shoots hybrid 50:50, sadly I would have to say a polite no to my dream stills camera, the Hasselblad X2D, plus as someone who doesn’t exclusively shoot video/movies, I don’t have to choose the FX3. But for pure stills, easy pick for me is the Hassie. Not even the GFX100ii gets a look in with the X2D on the table. So for my pro hybrid needs, Canon R3 with the new 24-105mm f2.8 is the sweet spot for me. The Nikon Z9 with the Tamron 35-150mm f2/2.8 is arguably a better option and I am a Nikon guy than a Canon fangirl, but if you put them side by side and said, “walk away with one now”, I’d pick the Canon rig. ’Equivalent’ ‘tiny’ non-pro rig, OM-1 with 12-40mm f2.8 🫡

Better this than being the old lady front and centre capturing everything with her iPad.

Which is why I did not suggest the S5ii myself…though I could have sold you that exact combo a couple of weeks back within your 2k euros budget but unless time travel has become a thing…??!! 🤪 Not much difference between 4/3rds and APSC and as you said you didn’t mind a 1” sensor… You could always buy the OM-1 with that lens from MBP eu, try it out and if it’s not for you, send it back. Unless you actually need longer than ‘80mm’ but otherwise kicks your camcorders arse for; usability, build, image quality, stabilization etc. It would be my pick at 2k euros or the X-S20 + Tamron combo of you need that extra 25mm.

OM-1 with 12-40mm f2.8 can also be had within budget.

Fuji X-S20 used Excellent condition (MBP) plus new Tamron 17-70mm f2.8 (28-105 equivalent) comes in on budget and spec?

How long is your piece of string? 😜 70mm (everything in FF terms) is a bit short for me in terms of a 'portrait' focal length other than perhaps indoors when space may be tight, otherwise outdoors I prefer anything from the trad 85 (though been using a 90 recently as my 'short' telephoto) through to 150mm. I didn't say I had a 35-150 though, just that it is my 'ideal focal range' for pretty much anything and everything outdoors. Pretty much bang on focal range for me for portraits outdoors, specifically couples at weddings, whether full length at a distance, or closer up. I like compression and will always pick a longer lens and work further away than a wider lens and work closer, if that option exists. For portraits, not a fan, - too far from the subject to communicate properly or too tight if I can. I am indeed in the process of moving from 70-200mm f4 over to 70-180mm f2.8 and from Lumix to Nikon/Tamron in this regard because on the lens side, it's a 1 stop faster, more shallow depth of field in a sharper, smaller (not much) and lighter (again, not by much) unit and as I have no real need for anything over 150mm other than very occasionally, the 70-180 works better for me. A weightless 28-200mm f2.8 would be glued on providing it did not extend when zooming like an excited donkey. I prefer non-extending zoom lenses, but they are quite rare. The Lumix 70-200 f4 is so beats the Tamron 70-180 in that regard, but the Tamron extended zoom length is not too obnoxious and the other benefits outweigh this small negative. But back to your weightless zoom otherwise, I can't see how I'd really use it any differently to having a 35-150 or a 70-180 or a 70-200, ie, my time above 150mm is limited. I would prefer NOT to have such a massive range in a single lens, because I prefer primes. I'm at heart a prime shooter for whom zooms make more sense so rarely shoot at anything but the extreme ends. The set up I am working towards with stills is; 20-40 but to me, it's 20 or 40, - there is nothing in between. It's simply 2 primes in one lens. I NEVER shoot anything between. Same as the 16-24 it replaced, it was always 16 or 24, end of. My 40mm f2 is my 'everything candid' lens because for me it is the perfect focal length. It's welded on to my Zf and is essentially a fixed lens point and shoot other than in an extreme emergency when I could stick on any compatible lens. My third and final lens is the 70-180, so it's a 70 and a 180. I could shoot it at anything in between and without wishing to sound like a complete moron, simple won't and it's a 70 (indoors) and a 70 or 180 outdoors. So my focal length set up = 20, 40, 70, 180 and these 4 focal lengths cover all my bases. I wouldn't cry if the 180 was 150, - I could live with that, but 180 has it's uses so is my '150' if that makes sense because that is the extreme end of that particular lens and I don't adhere to using zooms as twin lens primes to be in any way pedantic, never mind an arse, but because it's how I work and see things. A 28-300 would have zero use to me. Yes if I went on a safari I might want something longer and if I could only take one body and one lens, I might rent something. And if I shot sports, I'd buy something, but we're talking what I would personally do or use and think, not necessarily what anyone else might. This is why I really like Canon's 28-70 f2 and 24-105 f2.8 lenses because one is the perfect indoor lens for me (size & weight aside, but if I have to compromise anywhere, this is where I would) and the other a near perfect outdoor option...except 35-150 as in the Tamron would be better as a focal range, but I don't much care for the extending zoom and variable aperture. If someone was to make me that 'best possible real world' zoom, I reckon I could live with a 40-120mm f2.8 with some kind of hard stop mechanism that meant it cld be used as a 40/80/120. Take my money. I'd need something wider (such as my 20-40) but would trade the lack of that longer end for more megapixels and a bit of cropping. Personally, I like compression. Obviously the longer the focal length, the more potential there is for compression depending on all the usual caveats etc, but IMO, it's not too extreme 100-200, whereas with using say wide angle lenses for portraits, is just to wacky and unnatural to my eye. In fact portraits with anything wider than 28mm is not to my taste unless it's full length. Above 150, as above, for me, beginning to lose some contact/direction with the subject. Conclusion. As with all these things, opinions will vary, there is no right or wrong, only what works for you, for me or for someone else, which is often not the same thing. In fact whatever I do is rarely what anyone else, never mind the mainstream is doing. For me that is partly deliberate but mainly, 'just because'. They don't make boxes in my shape.

I think mine and many others, is the dream ‘do it all’ lens which would have as big a range as possible and the widest constant aperture possible, but without being too big or heavy. The closest to that ideal right now for me would be: FF = Canon 28-70 f2 and 28-105 f2.8 plus Tamron 35-150 f2-2.8 APSC = Fuji 16-55 f2.8 and 50-140 f2.8 M4/3 = Lumix 10-25 f1.7 and 25-50 f1.7 Focal ranges are quite personal/dependant on individual needs but for me these are: Indoor, 20-70 and outdoor 35-150. Funnily enough, lenses with those specific focal lengths exist! For Sony and Nikon users at least… My preferred candid focal length is 40mm. It’s just a sweet spot to me that isn’t quite as wide as 35 and not as tight as 50 can sometimes be. But specifically for M4/3, I would struggle to see past that Lumix f1.7 pairing despite their relavent weight to the format. On a G9ii, easy choice for me. On a GX85, maybe not. When it comes to M4/3 glass, I have always preferred the Olympus offerings. Their f1.2 ‘pro’ primes especially. As a one lens to do it all though, I’d struggle to see past the 12-40mm f2.8, the most recent version. Had that on the OM-1 that I had for a short time and other than say shooting sports or going on safari, for which a longer lens would be required, the FF equivalent of 24-80mm with a constant aperture of f2.8 is great for landscapes and people. It’s the one lens that along with Fujis 16-55 (24-83 equivalent) has FF beat IMO, because the ‘traditional’ 24-70mm f2.8 is just a bit short at the long end. Unless you have a lot of megapixels and can crop, but that is another story…and personally I like to see in frame the end result without cropping. That OM-1 paired with the 12-40mm f2.8 and the 75mm f1.7, for me would be the ultimate travel camera combo. I could make an argument for myself for any sized sensor set up and happily shoot with any of them from M4/3 to medium format. For my work though, I am uncomfortable (for want of a better term) with anything other than FF.

I’m a bit undecided now after more musing… There are 2 principle options open to me with one third but unlikely one… Contender 01 = S1H + 70-200 f4 S5ii + 28-70 f2.8 Zf + 40 f2 Z8 + 20-40 f2.8 + 70-180 f2.8 Contender 02 = Z6iii + 28-75 f2.8 Zf + 40 f2 Z9 + 20-40 f2.8 + 70-180 f2.8 Contender 03 = S1H + 70-200 f4 S5ii + 28-70 f2.8 S2R + Samyang 35-150 f2/2.8 Summary = Option 01 = the most comprehensive set up with 2 separate video units and 2 photo units and is the cheapest in that I have everything except for the Z8. It also has the most compact units in the hand. Option 02 = a more compact overall set up with cross compatibility between all bodies and lenses within one system with all 3 units designated ‘hybrid’. Cost is not much difference as the sale of 4x L Mount items will make up the difference financially compared with Option 01. The Z9 component works ‘better’ than the Z8 in the same role, albeit at the expense of size & weight. This option also requires the Z6iii to come into existence… Option 03 = the wild card. An all L Mount option and as I have repeatedly stated, I am not trying to move away from L Mount for the sake of moving and love the results I have been getting. It’s just been how I need to go about getting those results, mainly due to glass, that have been a source of frustration, but the camera side, I would rather stick with them if there was a way. And there is a way. Maybe… S2R (or H) plus that Samyang 35-150. Neither officially exist in L Mount but likely will. In time for the start of my ‘24 season, unlikely I think and realistically that puts or keeps, Option 01 as my most likely direction. I’ve come down to the conclusion that by the narrowest of margins, I prefer the Z9, but would make that choice of Z8 or Z9 based on the above. So basically waiting during this off season to see what Nikon do with any Z6iii and Lumix do with any ‘S2’ plus whether Samyang make that 35-150 in L Mount. Otherwise know exactly what direction I will be taking! Kinda… 🤪

I still think full frame. I think an S5ii hi res model is not, or at least less likely and the GH6 too recent? But Lumix badly NEED a replacement for the pro S line. Nikon has Z8 and Z9, Canon R3 with R1 and probably R5ii, Sony A7RV, A1, A9iiiiiiiiii etc… Has to be.