MrSMW

My dilemma is my current set up meets all my current needs. It would make more sense to flip my S1H for another S5ii or X and what I would gain would be enough to warrant it, but… I am still considering my future wants. Wants, not needs. My plan was to keep the S1H for at least the rest of this season and wait on what a future replacement might be and only then decide whether to move towards a 3x S2H line up, or flip the S1H for another S5ii. But then shooting the baked in Lut option has great appeal right now… I think I’ll sleep on it over the entire working weekend… I wonder if it has anything to do with my use of a Freewell 1/8th mist filter 100% of the time for all my video work? It’s the only factor I can think of. You think so? What ISO’s are you shooting? I stick to 640 outside and 4000 inside (both with VND) and have a 3rd option of the Flat profile for low light with auto-ISO, 100-12,800, no VND. I used to shoot Natural previously on the S5 and S1H but after a year of that, decided I preferred the Flat profile. Quite a few folks who do not shoot log seem to like the Cine V SOOC. Or is it Cine D? I get the two confused…

I think maybe it’s an omen…

Well now here’s a curve ball… So back whenever it was that the X was officially announced, I preordered a pair. The wait time for France was long so I cancelled and bought another used S5ii. But I just received notification that my new X came into stock, they took the funds and arrives tomorrow. I thought I had cancelled both but what with them being French and all… Aaaaaaargh… I could send it straight back, or keep it, order a battery grip (needs it for the 70-200 f4) and sell the S1H with its battery grip. Financially, it’s little difference, just the cost of the grip really. The pros are; smaller, lighter, faster, newer camera plus all 3 bodies identical (except aesthetically) and I can bake in my preferred LUT. Cons; can’t think of any actually other than it would mean saying sayonara to my S1H.

Weird! I get a lot of different fabrics and lighting conditions… This next weekend will now probably be Moiré City 🫣

7 weddings in and impressed with the S5ii. Getting used to the flip out screen but would still rather have the multi angle tilt from the S1H. Prefer the files coming out of the S5ii over the S1H. Those from the S1H are just a little too soft for my taste in comparison, probably due to the OLPF. However, possibly due to the OLPF, I prefer the photo files from the S1H. The exact opposite of what is supposed to be… Moiré, only seen one single mild instance in one single clip and not a single time in a still photo. AF has been great but not perfect. No AF is and I still prefer to use AF to acquire initial focus and then flip to manual. Unless tracking where I have to rely on it. Conclusion to date: For me, S1H is the ‘better’ stills camera and the S5ii is the ‘better’ video unit. I don’t miss my S1R’s at all. I thought I might, but do not. 24mp is more than enough for my needs. What is still ‘missing’ for my needs? I have come to the conclusion that as much as I’d like to go to a 2 camera set up, unless I can rely heavily on pulling stills from video…and for that I’d need 6k 50/60p 422 10 bit as a minimum, the 3 camera approach works best. On that basis, I would like 3 things in the future: 1. 3x identical bodies rather than 2 + 1 2. 6k 50/60p 422 10 bit internal (min) 3. A smaller and lighter lens to replace the Lumix 70-200mm f4, even if it topped out at 150mm. I will continue to use it until either Lumix or more likely Sigma does, but it’s the one lens I ‘need’. All things considered, the S5ii has to be the best overall camera I have ever owned and the only thing I’d change it for at this point in time is an X model purely for the aesthetics.

Same word, same line, same page Kye. I maybe just didn’t express it as well as I might have!

Not sure what you are disagreeing with here Kye… Raw simply has no baked in stuff to deal with so is the better starting point for those that have; the time, the skills, the storage etc, but otherwise all else is equal at the point of capture ie, exposure, choice of shutter speeds etc. Same for video, same for stills, raw vs Jpeg, one has more latitude than the other. Which I think is what you went on to say…

Interesting… My interest is the other way and that is to have stills that look like they HAVE been pulled from a movie, ie, both should match. I really need to find a gig some time this year when I can try this, ie, not shoot a single still, but only video and with the intent of pulling the equivalent of an entire photoshoot from the resulting film. Anticipated problems: 1: I don’t have any pure video jobs booked. 2: Realistically, I am going to need to be shooting 6k or 8k 50/60p over-cranked shutter, unless the camera can do 6/8k 100p with audio and ideally open gate… 3: …because vertical crops. Vertical video from 6k or 8k is relatively straightforward if the consideration for shooting for it takes place, but vertical stills are a slightly different kettle of fish. If it’s ever going to become a reality for me, it would need to be as follows: A. Shoot the entire event with 2 bodies and 2 zoom lenses in 6k or 8k, min 50/60p, ideally 100, ideally open gate. B. Make film including finished grade. C. Pull stills and not re/grade as such, ie, the colour should remain the same, but tweak exposure. There’s a massive pro and a massive con. The pro is capture workflow, download and editing are streamlined from 2 processes to just a single one. The con is, although I would still be thinking like a photographer at the capture point, ie, considering with every single shot how the result will work also for photography (something I have been doing for 10+ years and for the last few, using the same tool, just in 2 different formats, video and stills) but no longer arguably working as a photographer. The former has huge appeal on many levels. The latter I am not entirely sure about but could probably not only live with, but embrace. Any future changes in kit will be purely regarding this possibility.

They do have the coolest name for a camera though… BLACK MAGIC Just owning one must surely elevate you into the dark arts of video voodoo? If I had one, I wouldn’t have had to have used a black sharpie on my LUMIX logos.

Cube camera à la BS1H maybe? Maybe even a collab with Lumix and they (Pannyboy)focus on hybrids such as the S series?

There are a few cat fights from time to time and a bit of bitch slapping, but generally there isn’t too much BS here. Lumix BS1H aside. They really did not think that one through…

The comments section (of DP) will continue as per the average age of Paw Patrol viewers.

Yes, I have had some decent results from 4k, but limited in the ability to then crop (especially vertical stuff!) and to date, grade, but the latter is more because I was shooting profiles and not log. This year, I am about 70% 6k 30p plus 30% 4k 60p, mainly log, only switching to the Flat profile once it is dark or close to and next year I will ideally be 6k 50 or even 100p which is where I expect the next gen Lumix S1 line will go. If it’s 8k, then even greater scope for the stills but massive video storage issues… 6k I do think would work best for my needs.

The only difference raw would make is the ability to grade the image. The rest is the same. But this was why I was interested in the Nikon Z9 with it’s ability to shoot stills and shoot less storage heavy video, but when I needed both photo and video at the same time, shoot 8k raw for both. 6k 50/60p would do it for me however. I think… I need to rest later this year when I have the time.

I'm thinking more the sub-Hollywood level of productions. Like weddings. One of my 3 cameras is 'gimbal ready' and I shoot it 3 ways: 1. Handheld using the excellent IBIS. 2. On the gimbal for gimbal type stuff. (Very limited) 3. On the gimbal which itself has a quick release plate onto a tripod. This 4D can do the latter 2 ways but is not ideal for the first as it's a bit overkill due to it's size and weight ie, is hardly discrete. But perhaps with some kind of shoulder harness to take the weight, it could... What intrigues me about it is not how it compares to an Arri or really any other cinema camera, but the fact that it has 4 axis stabilisation built in for those times when that is required, full frame 50/60p 6k sensor and built in ND's. My interest is also as has been discussed in other threads, pulling high quality stills from video footage and ideally from full frame 6k or 8k. It kind of ticks a ton of boxes in this regard providing there is no requirement to shoot actual stills from the same unit. In combination with Sigma's excellent compact 28-70mm f2.8 (my workhorse) lens, for us video and smaller real world production types, this is actually a very interesting piece of kit. I would still need something static for ceremonies and speeches and a second 4D in this role would be silly, but for the other 90% of the event, just shooting one camera and then pulling the stills, has massive appeal on a certain level. For me. But horses for courses and all that and it's got sweet FA to do with Black Magic so I'll wind my neck back in 😉

One of my regrets of 2022 was that I did not give the OM-1 enough testing time…but I was mid busiest season ever. Ditto the XH2 a couple of months later. My only real gripe was that OM Systems made the perfect bodies and Panasonic made the pair of compact zooms that would have been my main workhorses. The equivalent Fuji set up would only have been marginally bigger but getting close enough to full-frame S5 size based system, to negate the weight/size savings. The 4/3rds system though, based on the OM-1 and NOT the GH6 could have been interesting…

They already are with the Ronin 4D that now can be had in L Mount but is limited to 5 Panny and 2 Sigma lenses. Intriguing camera actually and surprised it’s not discussed more than it is…

And...they're gone. For the 3rd and final time. 😆 As part of my down-sizing exercise, I have settled on 2x S5ii's and a single S1H. I say 'down-sizing' but the S1H now has a battery grip and the Lumix 70-200mm f4 welded to it. And a monopod because it's freaking heavy at 2959 grams or 6.5 lbs!! However, the sole use of this combo is roaming hybrid during wedding ceremonies and speeches whilst the pair of S5ii's are on tripods doing the longer form static stuff. Outside of C&S, the S1H disappears and it's back to roaming hybrid with the S5ii pair which can be easily handheld. Well the S1H can be handheld, but try holding that lump one handed whilst trying to turn a VND! I used the set up for the first time at a recent 4 day event and it was the FIRST time in 12+ years I felt I had a zero compromise hybrid set up where the tools got out of the way of the creativity. A couple of niggles but they were on me or unavoidable such as the Sigma 16-28 decided to start taking out of focus (right 50% of the frame), stills and video, so I lost the ability to shoot anything wider than 28mm on Day 01. No real biggie. I then dropped one of my S5ii's and bent the new flip out VND holder on Day 03 🤪 And a battery failed also Day 03 mid ceremony. Fortunately I shoot 2 angles on sticks plus my roaming unit so lost just one of the statics. Still comfortably the best results (because or despite of?) of the year to date. The combo was genuinely stellar and just needs a few final tweaks (settings) and then I can get some continuity going which I am looking forward to. Finally. Because it was driving me fucking nuts having to make anything from micro to fundamental changes at or after each and every job for pretty much more than a decade. So goodbye S1R's. I liked the quality of your output but found your controls compared with the S1H and S5's just a bit clunky and decided (finally) that 24mp is indeed the sweet spot. The S5ii's just do everything better except for the hi res stills. Which I'm not too bothered about losing. No further changes until full frame 6k 50/60p and ideally internal VND is a thing without sacrificing IBIS and that will happen when it happens and I will look forward to it, but don't care when.

That place has to be the most shit rumor site to have ever existed. It’s utter trash 😬 Because it might be the only viable full-frame mount available to them? I’m quite intrigued by BRaw and as an existing L Mount user…

But what would they do with it other than strip it and even then, for what? Internal raw and ND's? I think they could already easily do and give us that if they wished. I like the little fellas, the underdogs that punch above their weight, but it can be a struggle sometimes for them to survive, especially when it comes to tech which costs big money to develop and is often hard to protect. I looked closely at BM and their 6k Pro and like Sigma's FP-L, they are 'almost but not enough' cameras to me as in just too compromised for my needs.

A 6k 50/60 m4/3 set up could be quite interesting for this kind of thing…

For this one, not much. But that’s based on current spec so yes, that lack of IBIS and AF makes them a no no for me. I like the image though but stuff like internal ND may come to an S1H successor. ‘May’ as in hope… Probably some kind of internal raw also? So that begs the question that existing L Mount users mostly would not be interested in a BM camera and existing BM users might be pissed off they have to change lens mount if they wish to purchase their next BM camera?

I meant I CAN see a future when I will be doing this all the time. Doh! 🤪

That's my opinion also though my experience with this so far is waaaaay less extensive than yours. Some really great stuff I wouldn't know were frame grabs! I can't really see a future when I WILL be doing this all the time. I was going to flip to the Z9 (and a Z8) and do this partially, but have held off, sticking with L Mount, but definitely waiting on that next gen 6k...and I really hope they go for a highly developed 6 and not a limited 8k approach. The photographer in me would be kind of sad to go this route, but at the same time, from a workflow and a whole load of other logistical and creative perspectives, it makes utter sense.

The S5 is one solid camera. I moved to it from Fuji XT3 as my ‘still cropped 4K 50p’ for the video side of things, but now full frame stills. AF was fairly comparable but I would have given the edge to the XT3. The stills I found were fairly comparable with the Fuji files being marginally ‘nicer’ but the S5 files having a little more to play with. It served me well and was a good intro intro into L Mount and the ONLY reasons I flipped it for the S5ii were; AF, longer recording times and the insurance policy fan. Great camera. Absolute bargain now. Enjoy.