Patrick B.

This looks magic... absolutely the look I wish I could get SOOC without shooting film 😅. I will say Filmbox is very very nice though and really does add some great mojo. Waiting for the day camera's incorporate plugins or built-in film emulation for video.

Wanted to revive this thread as I've searched many times for a similar discussion exactly like this, but not a lot of people seek out noise in our era of hyper sharp and clean digital footage haha. I bought several used cameras to shoot out and compare: C70, Komodo, X-H2S, and FX3. I kept them way too long and just listed them all for sale after the S5 II/X was announced as it has so much of what I need in an amazing price. I had the S5 but couldn't get on with the AF for shooting myself. I do love the Komodo noise and reading this makes me want to keep it haha. C70 also seems very nice, but somehow I get a bit more of a wow factor from the Komodo even though it's sharper and I don't really like sharper. Of course Sony is notorious in their prosumer line for heavy handed NR, but X-H2S is nice. I was encourage by someone's comment on the S series having good noise. I can't remember now how my S5 looked underexposed but I do enjoy V-log and I love you can turn off NR in the camera. I honestly enjoyed even the EOS R noise recorded in 10-bit 4K on my Ninja V, especially when graded in B&W I'd underexpose purposely to get some texture. I hadn't heard of this 1/40th shutter trick for Red... I'm tempted to unbox my Komodo and try it haha!

Yeah, I’ve been reading a lot of critical comments online but honestly a lot of the footage looks great to me too. Played with a raw still from above video and it was very nice to push around.

I’m curious to see if they can hold to the $6k. So far the custom colors for early adopters are holding to the $7k. And I really curious to see what a monochrome version would be priced at. There aren’t really any reasonably priced monochrome cameras out there since it’s such a niche market (especially for video).

In the Q&A Jarred said they haven't published specs because things are in flux and still changing every day. The models out in the wild are basically beta in terms of firmware, but I believe the hardware is nailed down. Someone posted frame rates and resolution on the Facebook group as well as some R3D files and a global shutter test of a spinning fan. Interestingly, Jarred also said they felt like they had to move up the Komodo launch earlier than they wanted because of what happened with the Hydrogen. So, yeah, I guess they're kind of making it up as they go somewhat, but based on the promising DR chart I saw posted I'm really curious to see how it stacks up against other cameras out there.

I ended up tuning in for a lot of the stream and leaving it on in the background while I was hanging out. Some of the most interesting things to me: -monochrome sensor Komodo coming after color version is out -Raw is supposedly a different compression than current DSMC2 Red’s (DCT vs JPEG2000?) -Sensor is true global shutter. Previously Jarred said it was a “mode” which confused me a bit. Apparently they originally planned to have a RS and GS mode, but got the DR high enough in the GS mode to where there was no need to keep the RS mode. -Komodo started out as something that could replace GoPros in big films for action sequences but ended up being more powerful than initially expected -has motion sensor(s) that aren’t enabled yet

Whoa that looks great

great news. hoping they add in ability to bake in custom LUTs for times you want to deliver straight from camera. this camera gets more and more appealing to me.

Ah ok right. I had heard Alexa’s was a log raw and also the Ursa. So I guess it’s Pockets, Canons, lower end Sonys, and ProRes RAW that are 12-bit linear. I was surprised to hear the FX9 will shoot 16-bit, but I guess you need that bulky add-on module? But the Komodo won’t do internal ProRes will it? So it’s raw or nothing I guess. I kind of like how the Pockets will let you shoot ProRes and bake in a LUT if you want avoid grading.

That article I linked seems to bear that out as well as the Red Monstro did look cleaner in the shadows despite having less highlight range. Seems like the new C300 mark iii is the same way with its DGO. That’s very interesting.. I always wondered how they’d rate using that same test spec. Surprised to see it rate higher than the Alexa! I guess in my mind I’ve felt like Alexa is a world apart from most cameras, but I suppose that isn’t really the case any more as the gap has narrowed considerably with the latest generation of cameras. Another thing with Red is their Redcode raw is always 16-bit I believe (as opposed to most camera’s 12-bit raw), so I wonder if that allows you to dig a little deeper into the shadows. In the audio world there is enough of a difference in the noise floor between 16-bit and 24-bit that it helps me to get cleaner recordings when I have a very quiet source. I guess that same principle must carry over in the digital video to some degree: very quiet source = very low exposure.

Good question, and I would think it’s higher than 12 considering how high Helium scored on DxO’s test and that Red’s are very close to Alexa: https://www.dxomark.com/red-helium-8k-dxomark-sensor-score-108-a-new-all-time-high-score2/ But if Alexa is rated at 14 then maybe it is 13... hmmm https://nofilmschool.com/2017/02/shootout-arri-alexa-mini-vs-red-epic-w-helium

Interesting... I noticed if you search for Red DR tests similar looking images come back on Google for all their cameras. So you might be right that they’re using their own chart.

DR looks very impressive next to Helium https://www.facebook.com/625665414/posts/10157378019065415/?d=n&substory_index=0

Yeah, I was thinking about this. Part of me thinks that even if they internally recognize the opportunity of marketing this camera to a new segment of the market, they’d never pitch it as a more affordable, lower tier option because they don’t want to erode their high end brand image. Marketing it solely as a crash-cam/drone camera for high end work makes sense in that way. On the other hand they were also known as disruptors in the past so I could see where they could also market the camera as such.

Yeah, I’ve been wondering about this partnership as well. My first guess was Canon wanted to have compressed raw, but then again if that’s true they aren’t implementing a very high compression ratio that would make sense in a prosumer camera. As far as competition on the camera body front goes, I had heard once that companies made most of their money on their lenses and wondered if that’s what they are most interested in selling. Any truth to that? Maybe they see the Komodo as a way to sell more RF lenses and better establish it.

Interesting. So there is still a penalty for this increased range. I wonder if the ALEV III uses 2 ADC. The description makes it seem like both readouts are fed through one ADC, but not sure. I guess frame rate constraints and increased readout times could be more desirable than the motion changes that result from the alternating frames approach in HDR/WDR modes of cameras like Red and Z Cam.

@cardinalallen good information to consider. I overlooked the comment about the C300 seeing more into the shadows. So even though the SNR1 rating was lower than the C500, it may be that you can actually eke out more in post. Interesting point about the color channels in highlights. I’ll be interested in seeing how it handles this. Also, I noticed the Mavic Air 2 does some kind of HDR processing where different pixels are mapped to different exposures, similar to what DGO is doing. Are other cameras doing this with Sony sensors? That sounds like a useful feature for high resolution sensors that I didn’t consider before. I’ve heard talk about quad Bayer sensors where blocks of pixels can become pseudo bigger pixels and record better low light at lower resolutions like we see in new camera phones. But I never considered that high resolution sensors could actually record two exposures in lower resolution and essentially turn what is usually a negative sensor attribute for video into a positive.

Interesting. I thought ProRes RAW was variable rate based on the white paper and how the size can vary. But if it always stays 5:1 or greater then that makes sense that’s how they avoid infringement. If that’s true then no reason Z Cam, Canon, Sony, and Panasonic couldn’t all just add it internally. 🤔

ah, ok yeah I think you’re right there about the first built-in. ha, well maybe they don’t care. although News Shooter asked them and they said Apple gave them the license. I was wondering before if Apple somehow has a blanket license from Red and then sub-licenses to manufacturers or something.

Z Cam released one a month or so ago for their flagship line. It’s not built into the body, but there is a built in slot on the EF mount where it slides in similar to the Canon ND mount except, electronic. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1539456-REG/z_cam_nd101_end_module_for_z.html So now we have the first non-drone based camera with internal ProRes RAW. Makes me wonder if they had to have a separate license with Red.

That’s very interesting and explains the whole RF mount and PDAF even more.

yeah I also read or heard somewhere that even though you don’t get a raw panel in FCPX any adjustments are still happening in linear space prior to debayer.

That’s true. I can’t help but wonder if Apple has some bigger plan in mind. Red had referenced some partnership things happening right around the time the patent was being contested. I wonder if Apple will have some broader licensing deal that could eventually cover in-camera recording. Maybe eventually after Atomos’ exclusive period passes then we’ll see. Or maybe not. BRAW for S1H would be very cool though.

I think this might come. Yesterday on a Lumix live stream they seemed to make it a point to say that Panasonic had enabled raw output over HDMI, but that it didn’t necessarily have to be ProRes RAW. So if we look at the EVA-1 getting BRAW recently then it stands to reason this could come next. Just a guess. I believe it’s supported in the current beta version of Premeire (at least for Windows). And I think Avid had announced support. So really that only leaves Vegas and Davinci which I imagine will be the very last to get it. I feel like eventually they might have to give in and support it if enough cameras are using it.

yeah, I’ve only seen one quick and dirty test on YouTube for recovering highlights so it would be great to see some deeper dives. I hate to believe the IDX is that much lower.