Zeng

Looks very very good. And this given that a non-optimal path is used - footage converted to Sony log with LUTs intended for Sony cameras applied... Nlog support is said to be coming to FCP soon.

Amazing job. Wish you could do it for more cameras. I could provide you with samples of most of them side by side with Alexa, and you just do the math. How about it? :).

When comparing DR you should go both ways - over and under. Otherwise it's pretty useless. Log curves are mapped differently, so "normal exposure" as a starting point will never be the same for both cameras.

Yes, their LUT is no good. I wonder who did it for them. Don't want to be hard on Nikon, they are new to this, but still. They should hire some knowledge into their team regarding video. Neutrals not staying neutral is not that bad in my book though... At least in my attempts to match Alexa I couldn't find a way to come closer without some cast in the neutrals. Your LUT, Attila, stays true to the neutrals, but leaves too much of the Z6 N-log inherent "greenishness", at least to my liking. And I prefer even gentler roll into the shadows.

To be honest, I gained business but lost hobby, totally. We carry Alexas, Reds, Sony Venice just came in, waiting for Alexa Mini LF. Up to now it's mostly Alexa Minis on sets here in Europe. I've been managing a rental house for the past 10 years. Knowing this industry in and out. But shooting nothing myself ever since starting it... Almost... I spent the first few years being a DIT on set as I was quite surprised how clueless DOPs were about digital back then... I sort of had myself pondering over which way to go at some point - studying to become a DOP, etc. But all that time on set has actually brought me to understanding I had no intention to go into that. Since understanding this, I've slowly started claiming back my hobby - just one man crew, shooting something without the big ideas of "breaking through", making a feature, and similar. Sort of healthy disillusionment regarding my own abilities, likes, etc. With the capabilities of the current crop of small cameras, mirrorless and other, holding and shooting Z6 for instance puts a smile on my face every time. And I remember taking Red One with Lomo anamorphic to "shoot something"... I put it down after several minutes... It's a crew camera, like most of current high end cameras still are. But the quality gap is so small now... You really have to understand this.. The tools are no longer a hindrance (if they ever been), just invest in some cinematography knowledge and go for it :).

It was going to happen anyway. But they disrupted the development pace of the major manufacturers, that's for sure. And I don't recall any Dalsas in the hands of wannabe filmmakers while Red has produced thousands in a short period of time... Cameras and filmmakers that is :).

Let's give credit where credit is due. Had it not been for Red, we would be probably still shooting HD. Well, maybe exaggerated, but it would have taken a few more years, that's for sure. Their Red One was definitely disruptive. And gave start to many businesses, mine included. Have to admit it. Eventually I started a rental company thanks to being in the first thousand of adopters... Later it all went to Arri. Many wrong decisions on their part, imo. Anyway, I myself came full circle, and, business aside, went to get back the hobby - one man band shooting small cameras. Hence I'm reading this forum, and not reduser, etc. :). But they were pioneers of cameras which could be compared to film. Yes there was Viper, Genesis, etc. Still, the digital takeover started with Red.

I believe all attempts at [pseudo] log at 8 bit sacrifice too much color..

This one probably hasn't turned sharpening down in camera.

Hi. Right now the only advantage you'd get with Panasonic S1 versus Nikon Z6 is shooting 10 bit 4:2:2 internally. That is, if you want to be extremely undercover with your gear, just a small camera in your hand, no ext. recorder etc. Oh, and that 4K 60p that is so important to some. Not me. Other than that they share the same sensor. Contrary to what some guys keep repeating here, Nikon's Z6 external output is very high quality 10bit, giving 12 stops of dynamic range. Color science is actually excellent. I've yet to do a comparison with Panasonic S1, but I managed to tweak Nikon N-log colors to a LUT that matches Alexa colors very closely. Skin tones look great. Overall, this is a great camera that is unfortunate to be built by Nikon. Which is not regarded as a company you'd associate with video. It's amazing how Sony's A7RIV manages to get attention while offering nothing even close to Z6 in video dept. Apparently it's all about brand names...

When I asked Atomos about this at Cinegear in June, they pointed to a Z6 on their stand with Ninja V attached and showing "prores raw" in the corner of the screen. The guy told me "I don't know, it's ready and up to them when they release it". So it could be all sorts of things - like Andrew pointed out. I for one would hope it's just waiting for the competitors to announce their stuff first.

Alexa rec709 based monitoring luts that is. I'll try to shoot some side by side Alexa and Z6 over the next week. Was asked to do this over on dvxuser.

It could always be better, I guess. But seriously, how many of you have expected we would talk about any kind of raw video in a mirrorless so soon? 12bit prores raw out of a full frame mirrorless camera - I'd say this is the "good enough" line I draw.

I could never understand trying to rig those small DSLR/Mirrorless into a shoulder rig -type configurations. With new products from Tilta, etc. now things can remain small, and yet have everything included. With different style handheld, that is :).

It's 9 frames, not 9 seconds :). But still too much. Here are a few LUTs with subtly varying curves. We are dealing with 12.3 stops of DR vs 14-15 on Alexa. So alexa rec709 contrast curve is too contrasty for Nikon, of course. Although one of the LUTs is almost same curve. Also Alexa's response in low mids is pretty unique as well. To get a similar response on Z6 you have to rate it at ISO400 (lowest on Z6 is ISO800, just overexpose a stop). But then you loose a stop in the highlights of course, which if exposed correctly come to 6 stops over middle grey on Z6 (versus 7.5 or so on Alexa). Had to tweak the neutrals though, which means they have a bit of a color cast and saturation to them. The work is still in progress. I'll be doing Alexa look library based creative looks as well. Z6_alexa_based_LUTS.zip

My 2 cents... Z6 for video could be an excellent camera... used with Atomos Ninja V. N-Log is very very good. Color science is extremely good. We made some LUTs based on Alexa, and Z6 color comes very close. Skin tones, etc. I personally couldn't get this close on any other mirrorless cameras. But there is one huge BUT - they have to fix the HDMI delay which is currently 9 frames (!). Unusable for anything narrative. Looking forward to the firmware update with prores RAW, hopefully they fix the delay. At least Nikon told they are looking into it. I can share the LUTs if anyone's interested.

Like I said, this is very subjective. For instance, based on how Geoff Boyle discards the stops under, overall X-T3 wouldn't have any more stops beyond the charts. However, if you find acceptable strong color loss you may say X-T3 has more controlled noise with less chroma in it, and thus a bit more in the shadows. I'd say, total range is about equal with Fuji having less color and less noise, and Z6 having better color and uglier noise.

I've uploaded test for X-T3 and Z6. It was based on cinematography.net testing method. Highlights range is clear there, while the shadows range is open to anyone's interpretation...

OK.. seems like it's somewhat sensitive thing.. To get back into perspective, what usually matters to cinematographers is the picture they get. And in this particular case I just wanted to say that none of 8 bit cameras I tested looked good enough with their log picture. While Nikon Z6 and Fuji X-T3 look really good. But this is subjective guys, I'm looking at the picture, testing where it breaks, evaluating this for myself, and only then looking at what numbers/bits it has. Let's not start a war over it. In normal conditions with careful exposing one can make any of these 8 bit camera look just great, no questions.

Don't get me wrong, slo mo option is nice to have. But I just feel like finally, and only now we have small cameras available which don't bring along that feeling of missing something compared to high end cinema cameras or photo capabilities of those same small cameras. I'm surrounded by Alexas and Reds though my job at a rental house, but those cameras are not meant to be carried around by single shooter without a crew. And while testing various DSLRs and now mirrorless I'm finally finding these to reach the level where they are so good as to not miss the picture from their big brothers anymore. As for the slo mo, I'd be much happier if the manufacturers would implement under-over cranking in fine steps. Right now it seems that BMPCC 4K is the only one doing this.

Probably you're right, 11-12 stops limited by ADC.

It will always be a bit subjective in the shadows range. Just look at Geoff Boyle's tests. He has a comment section where he rates each of those high end cameras, with number of stops over and under the charts. With highlight clipping it's easier, although I've seen discussions where some even question this part, seeing 1/4 of a stop more, etc. In practical applications these hardly matter. In the shadows Geoff is ruthless - he discards anything where the color changes or the noise becomes apparent. For instance Alexa @ 800ISO is 5 stops over and 2 stops under in his tests. I'd probably find acceptable another stop in the underexposure. And so on. But in 8bits... you can try cramming those stops, but there's just not enough values per stop at that depth, etc. However, many find those log curves in 8bits acceptable and use them all the time. Whatever works for you, I guess.

Courses for horses, I guess. I can't understand this obsession with 60p. It's a useful extra, but just that, extra. Color and bit depth over 60-whatever-p any time. And now we can finally have 10bit log in those tiny cameras. A bare minimum for real log. I find this the most exciting thing back from the Red One days.

Have you tested it? In my testing experience none of these small cameras come closed to 14 stops. None. Even more so with Sony A7III 8bit output. It's just impossible to have 14 stops in that. 10bit log is said to carry up to 12 stops (11.5 according to cinematography.net), so... But whatever helps people feel more confidence in their tools. It's the final outcome that matters, after all.

Hi, Just a few days ago did a test based on Geoff Boyle's testing method - 400fc light level, which should correspond to f16 at 800 ISO. Then running exposures from f1.4 to f16, applying ND1.2, and running again from f4 to f16. Thus it is possible to find where the image breaks. We used single Arri sky panel S60 at 5600K. Tested Nikon Z6, Fuji X-T3 and BMPCC 4K to find out what's the best procedure to rate each camera and expose in order to get a more balanced distribution of the range between shadows and highlights. You could find more info at cinematography.net. I believe such testing method is much more useful for real life shooting. With highlights it's obvious, with shadows it's more subjective - depends on what kind of image degradation/noise level a person finds acceptable. In Resolve all files went through ACES process. For Nikon ant Fuji Attila Bakos' IDT where used. For BMPCC4K... well, there's no IDT for that one as of yet, so can't compare that camera for now. For the other two cameras a simple process was to find exposure with the 18% grey closest to Kodak recommended 488 setting, put the grey to that point using offset control, make white balance adjustment, and then go through the remaining clips adjusting accordingly only with offset control. I'll upload the pictures and the findings/comments somewhere and will drop a link here. And if somebody knows how to run BMPCC4K through ACES, please enlighten me.