PrometheusDM

None of the specs are really enticing for me. 61 mpx - don't need that much. 5.76 million dot EVF - same as Panasonic S1 for $2250 now. 1.44 million dot LCD vs 2.1 million dot LCD Panasonic Menu and ergonomic still mostly the same. Sony do have better AF than Panasonic S1 but it isn't enough to justify the cost.

S1 has unlimited record for 4K24/30. S1 will have 10 bit 4K24/30 and 4:2:2 10-bit 4K up to 60 frames per second via HDMI output

The S1 always has eyeAF and animal AF with retail FW. Still has it with the latest FW 1.1 I'm not sure where you are from but in the US, you get free battery and grip when you pre-ordered ($430 value), 3 years extended warranty, and free VLOG FW update ($200). Current promotion is free MC-21 EF-L adapter and free VLOG update. I got the camera for $2250 via GreenToe, sold the grip, and got the price down to $2000. I bought Canon 5D IV and EOS R and I have never receive any free accesories, VLOG upgrade or 3 years extended warranty. I also ordered A7III for a friend with my edu discount. It doesn't even include a wall charger or additional accessories of value.

You are suppose to register the camera https://shop.panasonic.com/3-year-warranty I think they will send you the code later. Yeah I'm pleasently surprised. I got it for $2250 when I preordered with free battery and grip ($435), 3 years extended battery, and now free vlog upgrade ($250). I sold the battery grip making it $2000. I initially had a budget for $3500 for a new camera upgrade. Everyone like to say this is an expensive camera, but I find it the best bargain camera for the features it has. 5.76 million dot EVF, IBIS, dual card slot, 10 bit vlog, new sensor, 2.1 million dot fully touch screen LCD, good ergonomic and weather sealing. They just need to improve the eyeAF/AF now.

I bought S1 and love it. I likely buying a second one as backup in the future and get a native lens when Sigma release a zoom lens. Why not buy the S1? People who already invested into one system, prioritize size and weight and want the best AF.

I don't either. People has an emotional investment in what they buy as if they own shared and they must defend them. It's cute. You can see this with PC vs Mac, Intel vs AMD, Sony vs Canon vs Nikon vs Canon, etc. It's just a tool for me. I'll buy whatever fit my needs and budgets. I bought the S1 when it's pre-order and I found it to be excellent deal - $2250 with free battery and grip, free 3 years extended warranty, free vlog and has best EVF, ergonomic (to me), IBIS, 4K, new sensor, eyeAF, focus bracketing and high resolution mode. It's only going to be more affordable in the future. I didn't realize US has the best deal compare to every where in the world. I guess that's one of the plus living in the US with so many issues going on (internet price, 5G, public transportation, etc)

FW is $199. It's free for existing user until Sept 30. Google if you don't trust me. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1455066-REG/panasonic_dc_s1body_lumix_dc_s1_mirrorless_digital.html I bought the S1 for $2250 with free battery and grip ($435 value), free 3 year warranty, free FW update. I sold the grip and keep the battery for $250. Net price is $2000. If you look up greentoe, it was $2250. I'm sure you can haggle them for less without the free battery and grip. They now offer free MC-21 adapter and free FW update.

One of the reason why I'm active in this forum more is there are so many knowledgeable people. Most people stay objective unlike some toxic website that cater to a particular brand. Competition is good for everyone. Whether you don't like for its size, ergonomic, price, it's good that they are pushing the industry forward and should be commended - best EVF, best IBIS, 4K30 internal vlog with XlR audio all for $2000 I paid for it, -6EV, and great sensor. If you consider what the S1 bring for $2000 that's crazy value compared to 1DXII or 5DIV days. I had a budget of $3500 for a new camera, and I got S1 for $2000. There are some improvement I wish Panasonic do which is AF and eyeAF similiar to Canon & Sony. They also need better MC-21 EF-L to support AF-C. They also need to make the camera about 15% smaller. Otherwise I'm pretty happy I got the camera for $2000. It's the best purchase I made in the last 10 years. I sold my 5D IV for $2000.

Or Sony is deadly afraid of Panasonic. Now that a $2500 Panasonic S1 offer free MC-21 and free VLOG update with internal 4K30/25 10 bit, 4K60 10 bit external. How will A7SIII exceed it for much higher price especially they got push back due to heat issues? Panasonic S1 will even cheaper when A7SIII is released. Panasonic is able to do this with a bigger body, can Sony do it for unlimited recording and similiar features?

At least I include alot more detail than your blanket statement "Panasonic is the most expensive of the bunch... by a reasonable margin, asking $500 more than Canon or Sony" without taking into consideration of everything it has over EOS R. I was a Canon users for 10 years! No it's not. I got it for $2250 with free battery and grip ($450), free 3 year extended battery, free vlog FW update ($200). After selling the battery grip, it's $2000. Bargain really compared to 1DXII/5DIII days of buying camera. 1. While 30 mpx is nice for cropping, 24 mpx isn't bad either. I blow my image large to 24x36 no problem. I do it alot for weddings and I know plenty of wedding photographer do it for Sony A7III/A9. They have a 96 mpx mode if you really want the mpx. 2. I do wish Panasonic has better AF and eyeAF like Canon or Sony, but it's more than enough for me to do the job. Hopefully they get there. 3. S1 has -6 EV. I used it for 1 wedding already. 4. True. They have the best integration 5. ND adapter - yes excellent use of the adapter but it's $400 for it. Not bad but it doesn't come free with the EOS R. 6. Robust codec? What does it has after the free vlog FW update? 7. S1 works with EF lenses. I do wish they have AF-C but it's temp band aid until Sigma lenses available. 8. Great color science? As someone who shoot for 10 years, I find that is rubbish. Panasonic has great color. Heck even some scene, I find Sony to look nicer. 9. Size/weight. Sure if you want extremely portable package not 28-70 F2 or Sigma 105 1.4. For professional lens with 24-70, 70-200 2.8, it isn't much differences. EOS R doesn't have IBIS, better EVF, 4K 10 bit thus the smaller size. 10. Canon - that's all it take for you to buy? I say this from a Canon user of 10 years who own Rebel, 6D, 5D III, 5DIV, EOS R that is stupid to remain loyal to any company. I switch to any manufacturers provide me with the best value propositions. This include electronic like smart phone, big screen TV, CPU, car. I don't go by legacy brand name prestige. There are things I wish Panasonic does better like AF/eyeAF, and better EF-L adapter support, but I am overall happy with my purchase. I sold my 5D IV for $2000 and got the S1. It's crazy how much people value Canon and I get a great camera with IBIS, EVF, 4K, better sensor, and functionality. I can see the appeal of EOS R, A7III, Z6 and S1. S1 is just better value for me since I don't value AF-C, 30 mpx, seamless EF lens support or ND adapter as much. If you do, enjoy it. I know what I need for my shooting style and S1 it is for me.

You mentioned it being $500 more expensive than Canon or Sony but omit some little facts S1 vs A7III 5.76 million dot EVF vs 2.76 million dot 2.1 million dot fully touch screen LCD vs 900k non fully touch LCD Better built & weather sealing 4K60 cropped Better IBIS Better menu unlimited 4K30 S1 vs EOS R $2300 5.76 million dot EVF vs 3.69 million dot no dual card slot 5D IV 2 years old sensor with worst ISO & DR no 4K60 IBIS Joystick Focus bracketing unlimited 4K30 Is higher end model really solution? Maybe since they aimed toward a different market that Canon EOS RP and rumored Nikon Z5 is trying to capture. We do not need more affordable entry Canon rebel-like camera. We have enough of that with EOS RP, EOS R, Z5. It's more churning over to cater to mass market. That's fine, but $2500 is amazing considering how much 1DXII & 5D IV used to cost when they are first announced. I got my S1 for $2000 and it's the best camera I've used and this is coming from someone who used A7III, A7RIII, A9, EOS R, Canon 5D IV, Canon 5D III. All these features for $2000 while I sold my Canon 5D IV for $1750 heavily used.

What's consider "serious"? Is it the end result or the tool you use? Is it only Hollywood production? Panasonic S1 is the first to have 4K60 FF mirrorless, unlimited 4K30, and eventually 10 bit VLOG upgrade. Not even Sony A9 does that. We don't know what the new Lumix Cine will offer other than the rumor 6K log setting which none of the Sony has. It's possible they used Tower Jazz sensor after all they were once a majority owner of TowerJazz. They were speculate to be the sensor maker for the Nikon D850. Panasonic has organic sensor that Sony can't even match. "TowerJazz also owns 51% of TowerJazz Panasonic Semiconductor Co. (TPSCo) ,[9] an enterprise with Panasonic Corporation."

AMD just announced 12 cores processor under $400, new GPU, and 16 cores released later this year. Intel has 8 cores all @ 5Ghz Corsair announced PCIe 4.0 NVME with speeds up to 4950MB/s NVME hard drive, storage and ram is pretty affordable now. My 4 years old i7 Skylake still doing great with everything specs out though I'm likely to upgrade to 12 cores processor this year.

It could be S1-S that's price around $4-6K and offer the whole sha bang or a new GH6 with L mount.

In case anyone looking for Sigma MC-21 compatibility list, here is a good resource https://www.tttphotography.com/sigma-mc-21-ef-l-lens-adapter-compatibility/ Sample video

I'm waiting for DJI Osmo Pocket Pro with 1" sensor. That would be enough for my needs.

It doesn't matter to me. Maybe to Sony's fanboy. If it does use Sony sensor, why couldn't Sony enable 4K60? All I care is the final image IQ. As long it doesn't have any negative impact, that's all it matters to me.

Your conspiracy is so twisted. Why would Sony sell Panasonic their "patented 5.76 million dot EVF" and allow them to be the first manufacture with Sony's highest EVF and sensor with 4K 60 but won't sell hybrid AF? It isn't like Phase detect AF is something special new feature no other camera has it before like 4K60 or highest EVF. Why would Sony license to Nikon & Fuji their sensors with hybrid AF but won't to Panasonic. Sony sensor division is independent of their camera division on who they will license it to. They will sell to whoever has the money to pay for it. Or could it be Panasonic do not want hybrid AF that has banding issues reported with Canon EOS R, Nikon Z, and Sony camera. It's rare but does happens. Check out DPReview forums for posts related to it. Panasonic mentioned they want to prioritize image quality and did not want to compromise on the IQ. I'm not sure if they will ever succeed, but I applaud them for going against the grain to figure something out with DFD tech and making mirrorless cameras not small like everyone else for those that prefer it. It's nice to have choices.

If the A9II do not have revolutionary sensor like global shutter, at least better ergonomic and 5.76 million dot EVF, 4K60 then I'm not interested in $4500 camera. A9 has very fast read speed too but when you are shooting flash, it still requires HSS. A9 is a better camera for sport and action. It depends for whom. If you are looking for 20 fps, best AF, then A9 I found 7 fps to be enough but prefer a camera to have great ergonomic, EVF, IBIS, fully touch screen LCD. Some people prefer 4K60, unlimited 4K 30. Once it has 10 bit upgrade, it will be bigger gap of things it can do vs A9. The S1 excel in alot of area that the much more expensive camera A9 cannot. Someone mentioned they are able to handheld S1 and get 2.5 second image whereas their Sony A7III 1/10 is a hit or miss. This is from someone who own both camera. Sony IBIS, non fully touch screen LCD is really behind the competitions. For that much money, I expect it to excel in most areas not just AF over S1. Yes I know it's an older camera. I can afford A9, but I don't see any value for things I don't use - 20 FPS. The superb eyeAF is nice, but it isn't needed for me to get the shot. All the competitions do good enough job for me.

It depends on what A7RIV offers. If it has better resolution (rumored 60 mpx), match Panasonic S1 5.76 million dot EVF, and similar body design for $3200, I have no interest. It just an incremental upgrade that are more expensive than my S1 that I bought for $2000 and get to use it now. One of the reason I bought the S1 now is because it come close to the perfect camera for me. It has great ergonomic (for my preference), 5.76 million dot EVF, great IBIS (handheld 2 seconds), dual card slot, eyeAF, menu, color, USB C. I might be tempted if Sony has a revolutionary sensor, but eventually Panasonic and Nikon will have it in their next camera. I'm traveling a lot this year to once in a lifetime destinations so I wanted to upgrade my 5D IV. If the A7RIV is a revolutionary camera, I don't mind buying it later at cheaper price and consider the S1 a rental. But who knows if A7RIV will offer something revolutionary. I'm not going to wait around for the next best thing. 5 years from now, A9II/A7RIV will be old news and we will keep waiting for the next best thing. S1 is a very capable camera for my needs now. Canon EOS R is a $2300 camera without IBIS, no dual card slot, no 4K60, 2.5 year old sensor, EOS R Pro will cost a lot. It's rumored to be a high resolution camera like 5DSR that's going to be release in 2020. I don't know if Canon will handicap this camera in someway or sensor finally caught up. 60 mpx EOS R with dual card slot doesn't really impress me especially $3200+. We don't know until it's released. If it's offer something revolutionary (global shutter, 5.76 million dot EVF, better ergonomic, 36 mpx 16 bit sensor) for my needs then maybe I can justify $4500 price point. I'm cautious with what the internet says especially after the rave review of A9 and A7III since it doesn't really apply to me. A9 20 fps doesn't impress me other than the eyeAF (nice to have but not really needed) nor does the A7III price point of $2000 when I found its ergonomic, menu, 2.36 million dot EVF, 900K non touch screen LCD, build quality to be lacking despite internet raving about the camera.

I don't do video, but I took this camera out at night shooting at ISO 3200 and it has nicest 4K I've seen and the IBIS is really impressive. I'm traveling more this year and this camera definitely make me want to shoot more video than my 5D IV ever did. I did one paid photo shoot, one afternoon and took it to Disneyland all day and it did not feel heavy at all. I was nervous because of so much people on the internet complain about the weight but after trying at Panasonic event and using it for extended period of time, it feel so good and balance with a heavy lenses like Canon 24-70 2.8 II & Sigma 105 1.4 Art with hand strap and neck strap. I don't have an issue with Canon 5D IV weight either. You should give it a try before listening to fanboys on the internet. I really like the ergonomic, features, and some thoughtful Panasonic has. The dynamic range & ISO on this thing is amazing compared to my Canon 5D IV/EOS R.

2020 is when Canon is predicted to have their EOS R Pro cameras - high resolution model and EOS R pro. They will have their trinity lenses and 85 1.2 RF. The rumored price of 85 1.2 RF is supposed to be $3250 with tax included. I think Canon anticipated less sale and price it accordingly to economy of scale. Canon, Sony, Panasonic, Nikon all have pro and cons and I think their next model will address some of the complains. I bought the Panasonic S1 because it come closest to the perfect camera I want now while waiting for the next big thing if those companies ever deliver. I got the S1 for $2000 while waiting to see how it unfold. I'm still reluctant to commit to buying native lenses because 2020 landscape will be different.

He doesn't have the camera to test it. Here is a review from someone who has it since 4/4. The Panasonic S1 REVIEW. Darn NEAR PERFECT Digital Camera Here is from someone who used it more than 3 months. Video shooting with Panasonic S1: Long Term Real World Review https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95sH-HDHN4M He lack any credibility when he doesn't even have the S1 to try it for long term.

Yup. A7SII was $3000 so I can't imagine it being being cheaper than that. Outside of getting global shutter, there isn't anything Sony will do to make me want to get it. That's why I bought the camera now and enjoy it for projects I enjoy Panasonic attention to details, ergonomic and enjoy using it. Sony may have good features (eyeAF) but I feel disconnect with the tool. I figure in my lifetime, I will probably have 25+ years of upgrade, I might as well buy things I enjoy using and relatively affordable (I got Panasonic S1 for $2000 after selling the pre-order specials).

No problem. I think you are hard on them. The manual was out a month ago. Here is the manual on the English website: http://eng-ca.faq.panasonic.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/55502 The link I first send you is on the first page of Google search result "Panasonic S1 Manual". It isn't hard to find it for me. Panasonic had extensively help guide on YouTube that was released a couple before they release the camera to go over all the features this camera: https://www.youtube.com/user/PanasonicCanadaHelp/videos They have provide FW update in the same month they release the camera. I'm also in the US. I don't usually read manual for any camera, but decided to read it since I had some time before getting my camera and I thought the manual was extensive in providing details of all their features. There are alot of features!