eatstoomuchjam

The C500 has interchangeable mounts which means that I can use almost any non-electronic lens, including vintage ones, if I'm willing to put in the work. Before Z Cam released their M mount and M43 mounts for the flagship cameras, I measured the mount and built a template to 3d print it. Then I figured out the right thickness for infinity focus and glued the existing mount adapters. It worked great. Printed with PCCF, they'll also take a beating (though I don't know that I'd trust them with the full weight of the camera or heavy lenses). Anyway, since the mounts are user-swappable on the C500 II, that means creation of an M mount adapter for it should be fairly trivial. I love my Leicas and sadly, M mount is too short to make a focal reducer for APS-C setups. Also, the C500 has an optional viewfinder (though that's even more money on top of the still-much-higher cost). I'll probably stick with the C70 for the still-wider dynamic range, though that may also depend on whether the used shop I'm using for trade-in finishes the evaluation today and then decides to go big with a BF sale. 🙂

I'm attacking you over nothing. I responded to a different person completely who said that there was no difference in most of the cameras being discussed (even outside the context of landscape) with two examples of differences (RS and DR). You went after RS as not applicable to the OP's concern and I responded that RS was not brought up in response to the OP. Then you brought it up again and said it wasn't relevant to the OP and I responded again saying that it wasn't brought for the OP, but to the third party who claimed that there was no difference in the image between a P4K and a C70, among other things. Anyway. There are obviously small differences in the look of a 35 and 50 for landscapes, particularly in framing things that are close-up, but on full frame, a kit looking something like 20/24/50/(85-100)/200 will be plenty for most things - with optional wider (14-16mm) and longer (400mm). Otherwise, in the context of many landscape shots, no. The difference in a 35/40 and a 40/50 (and to some extent, a 35 and a 50) are small and easily compensated by moving forward and back a few feet. Otherwise, if one wants the very specific control of focal length/perspective, a zoom lens is the most appropriate choice, as a 31 might give more of the desired result than a 34. All of the love for the C500 has me considering it now instead of the C70 for my trade-in. Limited to EF mount is a minor bummer, but I would probably just put the 0.71x focal reducer semi-permanently on the C70 anyway...

FWIW, for landscape especially, I would not buy the 10 lens kit. There's barely a reason at all to own 35, 40, and 50 (unless you want similar focal lengths for a multi-camera shoot and don't want to duplicate). Between 35 and 50, you can take about 1 small step forward and back. Between 35 and 40, you can move the tripod a few inches. 😉 Those zooms seem pretty alright - with only about 2x each, assuming that DZO make a quality product, the quality should be really close to a prime. Another option if putting out $7-10k for lenses would be the Fujinon MK series - but with the caveat that they're S35-only. They're really gorgeous, though, and whenever I see one used for a decent price, it takes incredible willpower not to mash the buy button (repeat to self, "I don't have many S35 cameras, I don't have...")

Already addressed in my previous comment. Stop ignoring the part where I said that wasn't referring specifically to the OP's needs. Where did I say I was powering anything by v mount? Also, keep in mind that powering the camera + monitor from the same battery can risk blowing out HDMI ports on a number of cameras due to ground loop issues. Caution is required. I manually focus almost everything and then let the robot handle the stuff where it's infeasible. Director wants a tracking shot with me running in front of the talent? Can't do it. Director wants a close-up with shallow DOF and the actor wants to be able to move like a human? Hope people are into a look where the focus is always about 100-150ms behind the talent moving around. Multi-camera shoot with only one operator? I wish I could simultaneously pull focus on two different cameras with left and right hands, but... nope. ... and Leica lenses ... and Fuji lenses ... and Sony/Minolta lenses ... and Pentax lenses ... and Panasonic/Olympus lenses ... and Mamiya lenses ... and Hasselblad lenses ... and Cambo lenses ... and Konica lenses ... and Kodak Exacta mount lenses ... and Contax/Zeiss lenses (if I remember right) How many other manufacturers, other than when making lenses for Nikon cameras, follow the Nikkor focus/aperture directions? This is why I say that Nikon are backward - I'm not able to remember even a single other vendor who follow them. 😉 For you with F mount glass and me with me with EF, it doesn't matter too much which lenses anybody is making for RF mount, just so long as there's a nice adapter available. And if Canon's strategy of locking down the mount backfires, the purchase of a different adapter will allow easy movement to Panasonic, Sony, Nikon, Red, etc.

I didn't catch that the videos are only 8-bit (he mentioned it partway through). That's a real bummer. Also, the fake motion blur that was shown near the end looks bad.

I'd suggest renting/trying a Panasonic S1H or BS1H depending on the form factor that you like. I think that the S1H DR comes really close to matching the C70 (13.8 or so stops at SNR=1 vs C70's 14 or 14.1) and I think the BS1H is the same sensor. If sharpness is important to you, the C70 is not ideal as it's a fairly soft 4K. The S1H has a pretty sharp 6K. They won't do raw internally, but you can hook 'em up to a Video Assist 12G and record raw there. Basically, it's pretty much everything that you listed as need/important and weak on a number of the things you don't care about. Otherwise, some of the RED models with a VV sensor can be found used for just a bit over $10k and they'd meet pretty much all of the requirements except maybe reliability (and have better DR than the C70 or the S1H). I don't know a lot about the DZO film lenses, but if you're spending $5k for camera+recorder, as others have pointed out, you could put some of the rest into glass.

Sorry, that was off-topic for the OP. That was more addressing the comments that any consumer camera was indistinguishable from other consumer cameras. Also, the audience doesn't know or care what ms the rolling shutter has, but they tend to notice fan blades that are all flooby and/or the feeling of sickness that they get during some handheld scenes. They also notice it in cars that are all slanted, etc. Similarly, the audience doesn't know or care how many stops of DR the camera has, but they may notice blown out highlights or the fact that they can't make out anything in the shadows. On the other hand, I could only make it through about 1/3 of a full length film that another local filmmaker made before I had to stop because the production/lighting/etc was so bad, but others watched it and said that they thought it looked nice. 🤷‍♂️ Most of the third-party EVF's don't have a direct way to attach a battery so now you're also looking at a v mount adapter or similar. I know my Z Cam EVF doesn't have one and from what I remember, the Portkeys one doesn't either. Strangely, the cheap cruddy ones that are like a 2" monitor with an eyecup that attaches with magnets DO take batteries... It gets trickier if you want to be able to support usable autofocus! I can get PDAF with my EF mount lenses on Fuji cameras and Canon RF (and I think the S5 II does it too). Last I checked, most Nikon AF adapters didn't do that. Plus everything is weird and backward on Nikon lenses. Beautiful picture from a lot of 'em, though. I lust after their 100 or 105 f/1.4. Sigma makes one that fits EF mount, I think, but their lenses just rub the the wrong way. I'm not sure why.

OP is shooting nature stuff and explicitly said, I thought, that sound wasn't a major concern. They also said that they plan to pair the camera with cine lenses so presumably they are already factoring expensive lenses into the budget to pair with their expensive camera body. But in general, I'm with you on buying better lenses vs better camera. If you invest in good lenses, they will be with you through several or many cameras. It's also why I tend to suggest to people that they go with EF glass for a lot of stuff unless they really need something about a native lens for their mirrorless. "What if next time when you're buying a camera, Canon went back to being Canon and has spent 3 years releasing the same sensor and processor in 5 different bodies with almost no differences, but Sony has innovated and released some groundbreaking new camera with all of the features you want? Will you sell all of your RF lenses for a loss and buy Sony lenses? Or will you buy an adapter for $500 or less (probably a lot less) and just keep using the excellent EF lenses that you already own? And in the next round, what if it's Panasonic that has the camera that you want?"

XF-AVC on the C70 is, unless I'm mistaken, a 10-bit 4:2:2 version of H.264 in a fancy wrapper. I think there's an all-I mode so it should be alright, but it won't stop editors from giving me an unhappy look when I hand over footage. Regardless of technical merits, people really like ProRes. 🙂 For a lot of stuff, I'll probably use the lighter of the two raw formats that it offers (except for overcranking past 60fps where it's not available). It's just not good for quick turnaround (like 48 hour film project stuff). Yeah, the integrated (or small first-party add-on) EVF is really nice to have. I'm sure that Zacuto make some sort of rubber band contraption that can go on the integrated screen for like $3,000, though. Then you can pretend you have an EVF and lose all use of the touch screen. As far as the cine lens size/weight, I've used CN-E's a lot with my E2-F6 which is smaller and lighter than the C70. By the time you add a handle and screen to the body and put rails on the front for your focus motor, etc, the "small" cinema camera bodies become "not so very small" and I haven't found the size/weight of CN-E to be a problem, at least. If OP wants to use Arri Master Prime, that might be a different calculation. 😉

If you can't tell the difference in a camera with about 14 stops of dynamic range at SNR=1 and a camera with 12.1 stops of dynamic range at SNR=1 - or you can't see the difference in 28ms of rolling shutter vs 9ms of rolling shutter when the camera moves, then you probably shouldn't be dispensing camera advice to anybody, ever. It's not to say that a camera with only 11 stops of DR and 30ms rolling shutter is unable to produce a nice-looking image. I was thrilled with my 5D Mark II at the time and compared with modern cameras, it had terrible DR and RS. Especially with ML, you could shoot with that camera today and come up with something that looks better than half of what I see entered in local film contests. Similar things could be said of the GH2 or GH5. However, the question asked by the OP isn't "what low-budget camera can I buy and find ways to work around its limitations to get the results that I want?" Also, some of the nicer options suggested (including the C70 that I was just talking about) are already pretty light and remove the need to buy a decent set of ND's.

In more positive terms, speaking for myself, I just sent off a bunch of stuff (older drones, my Sigma fp and fp-l) for trade-in and I'm planning to get a C70 back. It will probably spent most of its life with the Canon-branded speed booster screwed in and with EF glass (which I have a lot of). I'm not saying it's the dream camera for the OP, but since one of the original cameras being considered was the C300 Mark III (same sensor, I think), I'll bring it up. My use case is a bit different, though - I tend to work on low-ish budget short film stuff where we frequently have fairly minimal time to shoot since paying for the location eats up 70% of the budget (if there is a budget at all). My reasoning: - Broadest dynamic range of any camera < $10k (at least where I can find good tests published online - it's possible that some of the 8K RED's are better, but cined (and similar sites) never tested them with Xyla 21) (also note that the Sony A7 IV comes close (!)) - Built-in ND filter (not vari-nd like the Canon mount adapter) - Will autofocus very well with my EF lenses when I want it to, eye detect seems reliable for close-ups of actors who don't hold still enough to stay in focus at f/2 (and tracking by hand tends to look like a mess) - On multi-camera shoots, the colors will match nicely enough with my R5 - Speed booster bolts to the camera so things won't get too wobbly with FF EF glass, even with a focus motor (like when using my Canon CN-E set or my SLR Magic APO Microprimes) - Decent RS (15ms or so) - 4K is enough for anything I do (and a lot of it gets delivered in 2K) - more is nice for cropping in post, but I can switch to the R5 for stuff where that is expected (at the loss of a lot of dynamic range 😢 ) - Shoots raw - Batteries last a long time - Inexpensive v90 SD card media (and dual-slots to mitigate risk of media failure) - mini-XLR inputs (and I'm told decent enough preamps) for shoots without a dedicated sound person Bummers: - No built in wifi director's screen on iPad (Z Cam and Komodo are both great for this) (I'm gonna try the Hollyland Mars M1 so that I won't need to stick an extra transmitter box on my monitor) - No small first-party EVF that is powered from the camera (at least none that I can find!) - 6K would be nice for reframing in post - Only recording options are raw and H.264 - would be nice to have ProRes (or H.265, though maybe it has that and I missed it) - Inexpensive v90 SD cards max out at 256GB, I think, unless that's changed recently - if so, I expect that >256GB lose the "inexpensive" qualifier - It was announced in November of 2020 so there's a nagging voice in my mind that Canon will release an updated model that fixes all of the bummers about 3 days after mine arrives

Cool story, but nobody's asking you your opinion of how they spend their money. If the OP has more than $4k in their pocket and wants to buy the best camera for what they're doing, that's their choice. They don't need some toxic internet person yelling at them about other ways they could spend the money. Not everybody bases their spending decisions on purely utilitarian criteria. Keep in mind that I'm not saying I'm a Roger Deakins or a Hoyte von Hoytema (and not even close), and it's likely that the OP isn't either, but please do go lecture either one of them on how dumb they are to shoot with multiple $100k Arri kits and $50k Venice setups. Anyway, there are also "literally millions" of other ways that you could spend your time, other than criticizing other people's hobby budgets. Maybe you should find some of them.

Announced - as implied by the video, it's more of a traditional GoPro form factor. Comes in Ace Pro (1/1.3" sensor 8K Leica lens) and Ace (1/2" sensor 6K non-Leica lens) variants. The Pro hoots up to 8k24 in 16:9 or 2.35:1 - in 4k mode, supports "clarity" which is basically the insta360 implementation of Sony's clear image zoom. Frame rates in 4K mode and below are ho-hum (4kp120 and 1080p240 supported). Open gate is limited to 4K. It also has a "pure video" mode which does some sort of ML-based denoising early in the pipeline to allow better stabilization/footage at night. In fact, it has a bunch of ML features (all branded as "AI"). The Pro has USB-PD charging and a slightly smaller battery which they say will take it to 80% in only about 20 minutes. The non-pro has only standard 5V USB charging and is likely much slower. If the rest is like previous Insta360 cameras, their software will be a lot of the draw - it'll be interesting to see how good their software is at detecting the interesting moments in hours of video. From the One R and my 360 cameras, I think Insta360 Studio is the best action camera software around. https://www.insta360.com/product/insta360-ace-pro

The image of the camera post-collision doesn't look modular - at least not like their current stuff. Among other things, it lacks the bottom battery and any sort of seam in-between the brain and the lens (plus it has a door, probably for the charger, in more of a GoPro-type location)

With that description, basically every camera on the list will be good enough. Go for whatever has the best DR (and maybe has some option for internal ND or ND-on-adapter/mount like Canon or Z Cam) and get nice glass.

No. I don't have any of those cameras to check it, but if their RS is <5ms, I already covered that in my first post. If they're <10ms, it's probably not too objectionable or noticeable without looking for it. However, if they have 20ms or more of RS, anybody who has one can easily show it by pointing the camera at a train from 3 meters away and nearly any viewer will notice the slant. Another thing that Andrew alluded to in the post was lightning - I'd expand that to strobes and some flicker boxes (or flicker effects on modern LED fixtures). In those cases, some tearing is visible with most RS - people are trained enough (from years of slow RS cameras) that they don't care a lot when half the screen is bright for a frame, but it does look better when the momentary light illuminates everything.

I have the fp and the fp-l and based on the given description, it's definitely not what he wants (I'll also probably be selling one or both of mine soon-ish). 🙂

GS is useful for more than whip pans. I'm not sure why people always jump to that. (And to avoid nitpicking, I am fully aware that for most of the stuff, really low RS (<5ms) is functionally as good as GS) - Shooting handheld in general unless you're as steady as a tripod (with 20+ms of RS, the jello is almost always noticeable) - Shooting fast-moving subjects, especially from the side (trains, cars, etc) - Mounting the camera to a car (improved with gimbal for RS, but still noticeable) Not how you shoot? Cool, but that doesn't mean it's not how others shoot.

Still photos are amazing, but if that's your only use case, get the 100S. I also have the original GFX 100 and while there are benefits to the new camera, they're almost certainly not worth the price difference between the 100S used and the 100II brand new. Since I got my II, I'd been itching to try it on a short film. The director I've been working with lately signed up for the Four Points 48HFF thing last weekend so I decided to give it a shot. For fast turnaround, the editor and I agreed that I'd just shoot the 5.8K scope mode / Eterna profile in ProRes 422. It looked great. I used autofocus on about 90% of the shots with eye detection. Especially on the close-ups with the 110/2, it did a lot better job of pulling focus than I would have (there wasn't much time to rehearse moves with the talent). It was a nice reminder that not everything has to be shot in log or raw. We also tried using the native C2C integration to send proxies directly to the editor, but the wireless hotspot that I brought with me was WAY too slow. Setting it up was easy, though, and the bits that did work felt really cool. Just gotta' try it next time in a place with faster wifi. The director also brought in an AC without letting me know in advance. I came set for light/fast and had no need for an AC. I handed him my EOS R5 that I almost always bring to shoots as a backup and for slow motion (overcrank to 120p comes in useful sometimes). He was promoted from AC to 2nd Unit DP. I apologized to the editor that aside from my Fuji footage, he'd be getting some 8k raw from the Canon. He said it wasn't too hard to match 'em up (though if I'd known I'd have brought my older GFX 100 for him to use so that the footage would match better). Anyway. As others have mentioned, it's not a perfect camera, but it is extremely usable and it was a real pleasure to use it all weekend. At almost no point did I feel that the camera was getting in my way. It's probably not going to be my "a" camera on projects that can be planned better in advance, but I'll definitely use it again for quick turnaround stuff.

Definitely not the first "dual lens" action camera - the Insta360 One R with the 360 module would technically have "dual lenses" and I wouldn't doubt that there are others that I am not thinking of. But otherwise, good luck with your spam!

Given some of the cameras that you considered, you might also want to look at the Panasonic S5II or S5IIx. Use them with Video Assist 12G and you'll have really nice braw. FWIW, I've been a Z Cam user for some years and I've owned a number of their cameras (and sold some). They've been rock solid and if you're in the US, they have vaguely decent local service through a partner. Also able to do braw with Video Assist 12G - and good enough to be used on the new Mission Impossible series (obviously not as the "a" camera). Really, basically every camera that you listed is decent/fine and is going to be more than enough for whatever nature documentary stuff you want to shoot. If you want wildlife, you might also take a stronger look at the Canon C70. It has bizarrely good DR and S35 will give all your lenses a little extra reach. There really aren't any/many "wrong" choices in the cameras you're considering or have considered. At some point, you should rent some top contenders or go to like a B&H or similar and put hands on them. Then just choose one and go shoot. 🙂

I think I saw that they're 14-bit raw files and the camera has an option to pre-buffer about 1 second of them. Depending on how long it can roll after that, I could see using it for high-quality internal raw video (without sound, but some cameras already don't bother recording it when overcranking). Even if it's only for a second or two, that's enough for some inserts/effects shots. Since it can also be toggled on mid-shooting, I could see a sports photog assigning it to a button and toggling it at an important moment. If they can pull off GS with better DR than the Komodo or the ZCam E2-S6G, the camera could be a real winner. If it's not better than Komodo, I'd expect people to go buy a used Komodo for $4-5k and enjoy internal raw, anamorphic modes, and not having to explain their camera choice to clients. I was going to get a Komodo until another user sold me a barely-used E2-S6G for half off the new price. Also, the upcoming E2-M5G could be pretty interesting too - apparently it's both GS and DGS. Still waiting for some to get out in the field and see some test chart results. Anyway, it's cool to have a lot of "affordable" GS sensors these days. It'll be nice when one has enough DR to be used as my A camera - as it is, my S6G gets some use as a B camera and specifically for shots where RS jello is offensive (still need to rig it up to my front bumper to see how it looks when I drive down a bumpy dirt road - footage from the FP is absoutely unusable when doing that)

When I decided to ditch Sony for good - and when I decided to ditch Micro 4/3, I was bummed at all of the system lenses that I had and sold for not enough money so I've decided that for now, for the most part, I'll just get EF lenses and adapt - the Canon adapter for the R5 autofocuses about as well as I need and I also get the bonus of having a built-in ND filter tray so I don't need to bring other ND's with me. The only exceptions will be lenses that are totally unique to a system (800mm f/11!), lenses that have some truly major improvement for a given system (the RF 70-200 f/4L is shockingly tiny and still pretty good), and GFX lenses (some EF lenses work fine on GFX, some don't - plus every GF lens I've used (except the 80/1.7) is freakin' incredible). Anyway. This strategy makes jumping systems easy once the vendor gets complacent. I moved to Sony mirrorless from Canon years ago because EF bodies stagnated and they kept releasing new cameras that were the same as the last one, but with only one or two spec bumps where Sony was going crazy with improvements - not to mention the first A7s was mindblowing for low light on a consumer camera. Then... Sony started releasing a bunch of ho-hum updates... and Canon suddenly had the R5 which, aside from early overheating shenanigans, is incredible... by mostly having lenses that work with every camera, I won't get stuck to a system where the vendor decides to stop innovating because it's hard to move away with thousands invested in lenses. Anyway. EF lenses are often not the greatest, but also are often good enough for anything I need. I strongly suggest the strategy to everybody! (Also, adapt all manual focus lenses to Leica M mount and you'll only ever need Leica M adapters for your cameras)

Seconding the praise for the opening sequence!

Yeah, that's looking really good on Kai's video - at least in terms of tracking. I didn't notice any pulsing, but on the other hand, nearly every clip/edit of that part of the video was only about 2 seconds long and with a lot of movement. The pulsing is easiest to see when the subject is sitting mostly still. In any case, it's a bit surprising that it works at all, given that Sigma mention at least 3 times on the product page for the MC-21 that CAF isn't supported. https://www.sigma-global.com/en/accessories/mc-21/#main-feature They also mention that lens data for supported lenses is pre-loaded in the adapter which might mean that PDAF "just works" for them (though the supported lens list is all Sigma lenses) - I'm definitely no expert in PDAF implementation, but I know that with my Steelsring, it only supported a few lenses for PDAF in the first release supporting it and then a subsequent release supported more and they made some comment about having to profile the lenses. I didn't care enough to learn more than "apparently some lens information is needed for PDAF to work right." 🙂 I also just learned that Sigma released new firmware for the MC-21 about 2 weeks ago after not having released new firmware since June of 2020. Guess I have a project for this weekend...