TheBoogieKnight

Exactly. I still don't get why all these cameras take a 12-bit linear signal then convert it to a 10-bit format when encoding. Is it just to protect more expensive lines higher up the market?

Do you think it'll be using a quad Bayer sensor so no skipping/binning?

Fascinating how different everyone is. I love the size/weight/shape of the S1 like no other camera I've ever owned. I change my mind sometimes when it's on a Ronin S with a monitor mind! 😄

One thing I don't get is if the sensor outputs 12 bits, why not just store is as 12 bit H.264 (Hi444PP) or H.265? Purely down to CPU/chipset limitations or they don't want to damage sales of higher end products or?

No it's not, as I've already said in a 12-bit system you can't get more than 12-bits of dynamic range, period. In audio it's the same: a 16-bit CD gives you around 96dB of dynamic range, nothing will give you more than that and adding dither isn't increasing the dynamic range. But, one thing to consider is that noise below the floor will modulate the last bit/bits (this is what dither does anyway) so as others have said you can see see something under this simply due to the fluctuating noise which will have some statistical relevance to the original signal.

Do we think it's pretty much a given that the R5 is using a quad bayer sensor or might there be some line/pixel skipping shenanigans going on over 30p?

I love the S1 body.

Have you used the Pocket stuff much?

Why is HLG so much different to VLOG in terms of noise etc? They've definitely improved things on the S1 with firmware updats although I don't think the H got the same improvements yet (could be wrong)?

Would any of you lot buy one now the R5 is released then? I can get one for under 3.5k with the Ninja and grip. Seriously considering it but just scared of regretting it horrible if the R5 comes in at a similar price point and is as amazing as it's looking. I've got an S1 though so it would mean selling my L Mount kit etc. etc..

Yes but not below the bit-depth. And dynamic range can't be increase over the bit-depth. You can't get more a 12-bit signal from 12 bits unless (as I said earlier) you start with a higher bit-depth and add dither. This gives you more perceived dynamic range.

II don't think this is true. You can't get more dynamic range from a 12 bit readout than 12 bits although you can get more *perceived* dynamic range if you start off with more bits and add dither. This is what happens in the audio industry (I worked/lectured in Music Tech for many years). But it actually reduces the true dynamic range, it's just that you can hear (or see in a camera) below the noise floor due to the dithering removing quantisation distortion.

Thought as much, thank you. Seriously thinking of buying one (can get a great deal with a Ninja) but should I wait for the R5?

Everything I've ever read on the S1 says the converter is 14-bit. This would make sense as it outputs 14-bit RAW images and even Sony's technical documents state 14-bit so why is it only 12 bit? Just readout speed for video so they had to do that? On an unrelated note, do people generally think an S1H is still worth buying with the R5 around the corner?

Hi everyone Just wondered if anybody knows what format the RAW output of the S1H is? I've been led to believe up to now that's it's definitely LOG but I've just watched this video: Which says it's linear. Anyone know for sure? Also anyone got any idea of the lag of the Ninja V in Raw mode? It's pretty bad on the S1 but I was hoping it would be better. Thanks

Are you sure? I saw one shooting 10-bit with a Ninja (N-Log) and the autofocus was horrible and far worse than I've seen from an S1. It was a while ago so maybe there's been a new firmware but the guy shooting just said autofocus fell apart with an external recorder.

Any impressions on the new firmware yet? Read somewhere that they've changed the noise reduction. Any improvements to AF?

Of course I was just having a dumb moment! Do we know if they're still using the same Sony sensor as all the others?

Thank you for that. I really hope it's not. 4k60 is less bandwidth than 5.9k/30p (assuming it really is 5.9k and not upscaled) so I don't think it's a sensor issue.

Does anyone know for definite if 4k60 is cropped on the S1H?

A bit of an unfair comment. It can't even stay in focus during slow pull-ins and pull-outs as all the videos/reviews on the net and my own testing showed. Yes it gets the focus eventually but all the competition is able to stay focused.

Hi there Could I ask the point of this (throwing away levels)? Is there any science behind it?

Is there a new full-frame sensor available yet that will do FF 4k60/8k/anything else new?

From all the tests I've seen online (and I've seen a fair bit as I'm in the market and looking at both), the quality is comparable (of course the S1 has HLG etc. but ignoring that). The S1 does however really pulls ahead at high ISOs. It looks almost 2 stops better at the top end in the comparisons I've seen. I'd love to know why this is since they're using similar sensors. Perhaps it's just better/different noise reduction on the S1 but I feel there's more to it than that. Still don't know what I'm buying!

Quick question on 6k mode; I've read that it's still cropped (as 4k60 is) but how can it be 6k if it's using a 4k portion of the sensor?