SteveV4D

Assuming of course you only deliver via Youtube and that this quality that Youtube delivers is maintained in the future. What are the hidden overheads? Media.. hardly hidden. Extra encoding time for 4K over HD; again not hidden, and to be honest, with better software and computer, comparable to my encoding HD 6 years ago.

On my smartphone, the Youtube App won't give me a resolution higher than 1080p on any of my 4K videos. There use to be a time that you had to upload 4K to get a decent 1080p video. Now its 8K thats required. What next, 12K, 16K; just to get a passable Youtube video... Besides, its people viewing my videos thats the issue. If I left my smartphone on Auto resolution, it pumps out 420p. So unless my clients know how to change resolution with Youtube, its not going to matter what I upload. My other choice is Vimeo. Though I also send files directly to be viewed via clients on their computer. So I see this where the quality shines.

I don't think its that big a claim to day that Youtube is rubbish and that quality isn't all that great uploading 4K over 1080p. Aside from small videos, most of what I deliver is 1080p. But to say I'm making my life hard shooting 4K - nah. I'm loving it. I shoot nearly always 4K BRAW and the pleasure editing these files compared to H264 and even worse, those AVCHD files that for some reason struggled to playback in Premiere even though 4K H264 were okay. It use to be that after I graded the footage, I had to render to see any benefits and that was just a simple grade. Now I perform complex grades in Resolve that playback fine on BRAW, whilst stuttering with H264. Probably about 95% of my work I am doing things where 4K is an advantage. And should the Industry move closer to 8K, 4K will upscale better than 1080p. I doubt I will ever go back to shooting 1080p for any project. Most modern cameras now don't give much thought to 1080p anyway. I wonder how long it'll be before it is missing altogether from new cameras.

Not hard to agree based on the above video. How does the S1 IN IS compared to the S1H?? MET still has a lot to give for video. It would be worth waiting for the GH6 announcement and see what Panasonic has to give before leaping to fullframe.

Shame there isn't a bundle with a slightly better lens than the kit one. Something with constant aperture would be better.

No frame marks on the S1... okay, thats really annoying. Price reduction or not, I'd pass on the S1. I do a lot of 2.35 filming and its rather useful for me.

I'd hold off on buying a used S1 now. Something tells me there will be a few more on the market soon and this will drive the price down further. S5 has the same dust and water proof resistance as the S1, its just not as capable in freezing cold conditions according to reviews. Whilst improved AF is coming to the S1, I doubt it will be to the standards of the S5, as the camera hardware was designed for this improved AF, whereas the AF is just getting some software improvements. Is the IBIS better on the S1. I've seen different and conflicting reports on that, some say the same, others say not as good. S5 will by the end of the year output 5.9k, albeit via a crap HDMI port. If I bought either the S1 or S5, neither would be A cameras. More B or C depending on needs. So the limitations aren't a big deal. I would need to see how the overheating performs in real world cases before deciding. If it does manage 30 mins and can quickly record afterwards, then its not a deal breaker for me.

30 min limit on fullframe 4K and crop 60p from what I can see. A chance it could overheat. One reviewer got the overheat warning and this limited shooting after 30 mins. 50p and 60p is a S35 crop. It remains to be seen what rolling shutter is like. The R5 and A7sIII have very good RS, which for the R5 is quite surprising. R6 has awful RS. I think the charge for the vlog upgrade is a sticking point regarding the S1, compared to be included free with the S5. Panasonic should just release it and end this silly charge for it and just include it with the next firmware upgrade.

So 60p is a 1.5 crop after all. Not good. 30 min clip limit. Not good. Micro HDMI. Not good. Lower resolution screen and EVF not good. Small size is nice for me, 10 bit 60p is a step up and AF whilst not on Canon or Sony level showing improvements. Vlog is included. Well done Panasonic. Time to stop charging extra for it. Some great specs in a small size. Future Fireware update adds DCI 4K.. thats good. But why wait... Hard to know what I think of this camera. Like the other fullframe mirrorless, it has some great features mixed with some notable misses. Not sure whether its worth the upgrade to fullframe or not. I may hold off for now and see if a GH6 is announced by March next year.

The renowned specs said fullframe as a description for the 60p. You're right, its not definite. They should though given competition.

Frankly codecs on the R5 are unusable now for many of us. Especially if you want to do any proper grading. Cinema RAW light is a planned upgrade. I assume this may make the 8K RAW a possibility for professional grading in software without crashing your system.

S5 is rumoured to have uncropped 60p at 10 bit. Big tick. Flip screen. Another big tick. Smaller too, which is another big tick. Its not my main camera, and I don't want it big. I have my cinema cameras for that. Hopefully improved AF as well. It will carry another year of technical development in it. So may have some small improvements here and there. So definitely above the S1 in many key areas.

You would think so, but I had several discussions on DpReview with users who felt the S1 was it for Panasonic fullframe video. I argued there was going to be a S1H and was told it was unlikely, or not for another year at least. So I think some were surprised by how quickly the S1H arrived.

I don't think Panasonic will do much for the S1. They will want you to buy the S5. The first year of the GH5 you got some decent upgrades, but its just small stuff since. I think if you got the S1 and want more, buy the S5 or the S1H. Back when the S1 was announced, I had plans to buy it, but held back. I'm glad I did. The S5 is looking the better option and camera.

What put me off from the S1 was the extra fee for the vlog update. I use to defend it back when they did it for the GH4 and GH5 as I felt it right to pay for an extra function reserved more for video professionals. Then they included it for free on one of their lower level cameras and it didn't sit right with me after that. In hindsight, I feel that at the time they released the S1 that they should have advised customers of the S1H upcoming release; I know some were caught out by this and invested in the S1 and then learnt a camera more suited for video was due afterwards, even if more costly. Now a year later, they offer an improved S1 in the S5. Feels like those early adopters for Panasonic fullframe didn't get the best deal. Not a concern to me as I didn't jump in. But I might feel differently if I had.

They're Canon.. 😕😕 You need to spend over 10k for almost perfect.

Not a total deal breaker for me either. My GH5 is limited to UHD in 25p. But my other cameras are on DCI. I like the extra wide angle they give. Its a con and one to bare in mind when comparing this to another camera. Though its a common miss on the specs list at this price.

Just seen this leaked specs and images. https://www.l-rumors.com/panasonic-s5-full-specs-and-additional-images-leaked/amp/ Initial thoughts, looks like no DCI 4K, why??? What is it with cameras removing this option. 50p and 60p looks like its fullframe and not a crop, 10 bit 4.2.0 Makes sense it being fullframe given recent developments with the competition. I do wonder if a new version of the S1H is due next year; an answer to the R5 and A7SIII.

I am trying to work out if the GH6 is a thing or not. Owning a vast amount of MFT lenses makes it a better buy than starting from scratch with the S5 or another fullframe. Though I have enough MFT cameras and welcome at least one fullframe to balance my gear out. I wonder what Panasonic would bring to the table with the GH6 to keep it relevant given what we are now seeing in fullframe cameras. I hope more than just 8K. Internal ND filters, internal RAW maybe. So far Panasonic are putting more effort into their fullframe and I question if the writing is on the wall for their GH line. Maybe I am wrong. But with Olympus pulling out, MFT feels like an endangers species relegated to cheaper camera releases.

Its so subtle, I find myself reminded of the Emporers New Clothes story. Art is full of this sort of stuff. Vast majority who talk about the fullframe look are simply referring to their fullframe camera resolving the full range of their fullframe lenses vs using those same lenses on a cropped sensor. You can get a similar look using dedicated MFT and S35 lenses for these sensors. A fullframe look isn't the same as a cinematic look and shouldn't be confused with it. Er no. That is a bit of a stretch for an analogy. And you're simplifying why people may struggle to see a difference in those examples. Besides Fps and resolution actually appear in a cameras exif data. The fullframe look doesn't get a mention... 🤣🤣

My issues with fullframe mirrorless is my frustration that there still isn't yet one to really set itself above the others. Each model is close, yet each falls short in different areas. Canon R5 and R6 suffer overheating, though have great AF, colour and IBIS. Poorer DR for now. The R5 promises Clog3 and internal Raw Light in future upgrades, which will be a huge advantage over the Panasonic and Sony. Sony A7sIII has great lowlight, DR, AF, but colour needs more work and 12mbs for photos is a limitation if you do need HQ stills. Still, its arguably the best fullframe mirrorless out there now for video. I've never liked Sony; those I've owned have been very frustrating for me. Not just for colour, but ergonmics too. A few overheating problems on jobs have also not endeared me to them either. Panasonic leads on video features, though the S1H is far better for video use than the stripped down S1. It lacks a decent AF, and 60p is still cropped. It could use an upgrade with 120fps 4K, uncropped 6K, and a decent AF to really dominate the market. I'm intrigued to learn how the S5 sits with the S1 and S1H. S5 could work well in my range of cameras for hybrid and run n gun work if it doesn't strip too much back from these cameras and it would be even better if it can improve in some areas. Especially with competition from Sony and Canon. For video only, I'm more interested in the URSA 12k or the Canon C70. But for hybrid, the S5 certainly has my attention. It won't convert me into seeing the mythical fullframe look however. 🤣🤣

I'm not arguing against the mirrorless cameras quality. On the contrary, I've shot with them more than any other camera. I also don't disagree for small indie movies they are ideal. I would do the same. I also saw and own a movie shot on the GH2 and the quality is very good. I love the GH series cameras and own them all. Brilliant cameras. Where I draw the line is feeling mirrorless hybrids are a replacement and even equal to cinema cameras. Not just because a dedicated cinema camera have functions that mirrorless cameras lack, can be more reliable, but also as they have a better image that allows for stronger grading. This isn't to say mirrorless don't have a good image. They do. Throw the image out to an external recorder for RAW or use a 400mbit all-l codec and you are getting there. But then you lose the portability and small size many buy mirrorless for. There are some who feel they can buy one camera that rules them all for all their video work. I favour a variety of cameras to serve different needs. In this setup, a mirrorless camera can be very useful and deliver a great image. In my experience, those who talk about the so called fullframe look, whilst overlooking the image quality difference a dedicated cinema camera has over mirrorless are probably locked into a certain point of view tied to the camera they currently own.

I hear the same argument from Canon users, Sony users, any mirrorless camera users in fact, justifying why their choice delivers the best. I get you like your camera; yep it does a great job. However if I was shooting a movie or larger documentary with a budget, I'd grab a dedicated cinema camera. Maybe with a mirrorless as a B camera for certain shots. I plan to pick up the S5, if it meets potential. Fullframe has it's uses, so do hybrids. It'll be a lovely B camera. I'd invest more for 1, but lack of decent AF in the S1H and the R5 issues makes them less appealing as an expensive purchase. Hybrids still have a way to go before they compete with cinema cameras. Limitations of form factor and their catering for photo holds them back IMO.

Only the S1H I feel and with the 400 mbit all-l codec. Which is what Netflix asks to make the S1H eligible for use on their productions. S1 less so. And you're forgetting lenses which play a special part in the cinema look. There's no doubt that hybrids produce a great image for their price. But its for more reasons than simply being a dedicated video form factor that pushes TV and Film productions to use Red and Alexa cameras. Even the S1H lacks a certain magic I see in cinema cameras. They're tools to do a certain job, handling both Photography and video and work well within those parameters. It'll be nice to read something positive, so I hope these improvements move from speculation to fact.

They often lack a decent internal codec, suffer from more RS, less DR and other limitations compared to cinema cameras. Regardless of their image quality, which is often very good and does get used for TV and movie productions, though frequently as cheap crash cams; they're really no substitute for dedicated cinema cameras and cine lenses. Things like global shutter, superior motion cadence and full colour reproduction and range is something a dedicated video camera will always excel at over the hybrid.