Super8

I'll try and find some samples to answer your questions above. Here's a comparison with his first example. You get the same view and perspective. the right side starts to not match up, not the guy but the bookshelf and table, basket.

I like Kai W. I don't remember him going off into fanboy land. As far as Undone, I'm not sure about him. He gets technical but tries to legalistic his review to one side or another. The problem with his Z Cam review is people will run with his review and give doubter a road map to follow. He creates a check list of pro's and cons for the Z Cam but each pro and con doesn't hold the same weight. Does he seem to lean more for Sony or against?

How? I gave you RED's business model and Black Magic's. Two ends of the camera world that make good product. Not sure why comparison is bullshit. It shows companies approach business two different ways. IMO it shows you have room for high and low pricing with everything in between. If the industry tanks like you say it will this shows we will still have camera choices in the same price matrix. Some history: https://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/dslr.htm This shows the model and price of Nikon DSLR's from 1999 to the present. Here's one example about camera prices staying the same year after year but feature getting better. 21 February, 2002: The D100 is announced. It's 6 MP and 3 FPS for $1,999. This is Nikon's first lightweight amateur DSLR camera. It was an N80 with digital guts. It wasn't available for sale until June, 2002. It was a sellout with long waiting lists for a year after its introduction. In May 2003 the D100 dropped to $1,699. In December 2003 it dropped to $1,499 where it stayed for a year or two. In May 2005 it dropped to $999. Notice the $1,999, $1,699, $1,499 prices from 2002. This doesn't include the higher priced camera either. Same price points as today. This means back in 2002's money we were paying more for cameras than today. (This is true for game systems, and other electronic over the years). Camera prices didn't go up after the financial crash in 2008-09 and they won't increase if we lose a few more camera companies.

Of course the buying one or buying 200 gets you a different price for bulk orders. In no way does this prove your doom and gloom argument. So you know how many and what price Olympus paid for it's Sony sensors? or that if Olympus sold/made more cameras they would have bought more sensors? That makes no sense what so ever about why Olympus went under. _____________________________________________________________________ Here the rest of my last comment that you didn't read. ________________________________________________________________________ Case in point let's use a camera company. Let's use RED. RED set the market based on the cost of traditional camera model and has stuck with it. They decided to charge a certain price and let the market adjust around their price. They didn't panic and start slashing prices. Black Magic on the other hand has a different business model. Sell for less but sell more product. Does it cost 300x more to make a RED camera? No it doesn't. RED can sell one camera package to Black Magic having to sell 6 to 9 to make the same profit. Camera companies that produce lenses also have a different model than the ones that only sell camera bodies. The smarter companies will offer 3 cameras at different price points with a wide range of lens selections. They will offer a echo system that people can invest in. I would be worried if I was Black Magic. To survive the has to move a lot of product. They can't all of a sudden come out with a $15,000 camera. The lower priced cine cameras are taking profit away from Black Magic so much that they lowered the price of the BMP6K to $1,995. Companies have to live or die by the price model from the past. Canon or any other company cannot raise prices because parts cost more or tariffs are higher. The Sony PS5 might be great and could cost $950 US but no one would buy it. If Fuji goes under and also Panasonic that doesn't mean Canon or Sony's prices will go up. We have to many camera makers as it is.

You brought up that the C300 doesn't do photography but at the same time you've brought up the P4K and what it can do as a m4/3 camera. It's easy to find contradiction in your comments but don't get worked up because I do. I brought up issues as to why m4/3 probably won't be supported much longer. This ties into Olympus and this is why it's in this thread. And for this reason I don't think m4/3 cameras like the Gh5 should be recommended. That's the part where you tell someone the GH5 is worth investing in and they spend $2,500 to $4,000 to rig it up. I didn't bring up major issues but they are issues with image quality when it comes down to it. Sure if you already own a GH5 sure. What are you going to do? pass it on and sale it to get a better camera? Sure you could but the GH5 checks all the boxes and is cine quality, right? This is my biggest issue with the GH5 and that's the none stop defending of specs without the image to back it up. The BMPCC was great when it came out, right? How come it's not still supported? Why didn't BM just keep increasing the specs and release II, III and up versions? Hopefully this conversation shows you that a 2015 cine camera, C300 II, holds up better than a 2017 GH5. Not that the GH5 was ever suppose to be the C300 II at all. I give the GH5 the credit for pushing the market into a good spot. It has great feature that even cameras today don't have. The Gh5 was just crippled by Panasonic. 60p at 4K of inferior image means what exactly? This is why it's so hard to get to the bottom of what cameras have what and which ones delivery the best image with the best features at the best price that fits your budget.

That's not how it works. The reseller, whole sale world is much different than you seem to realize. Everyone needs to make a profit and it's not selling directly to the local guy. Case in point let's use a camera company. Let's use RED. RED set the market based on the cost of traditional camera model and has stuck with it. They decided to charge a certain price and let the market adjust around their price. They didn't panic and start slashing prices. Black Magic on the other hand has a different business model. Sell for less but sell more product. Does it cost 300x more to make a RED camera? No it doesn't. RED can sell one camera package to Black Magic having to sell 6 to 9 to make the same profit. Camera companies that produce lenses also have a different model than the ones that only sell camera bodies. The smarter companies will offer 3 cameras at different price points with a wide range of lens selections. They will offer a echo system that people can invest in. I would be worried if I was Black Magic. To survive the has to move a lot of product. They can't all of a sudden come out with a $15,000 camera. The lower priced cine cameras are taking profit away from Black Magic so much that they lowered the price of the BMP6K to $1,995. Companies have to live or die by the price model from the past. Canon or any other company cannot raise prices because parts cost more or tariffs are higher. The Sony PS5 might be great and could cost $950 US but no one would buy it. If Fuji goes under and also Panasonic that doesn't mean Canon or Sony's prices will go up. We have to many camera makers as it is.

Not much to go by in those images. IMO all 3 are under exposed. The blacks are crushed and the first tow are over saturated and the 3rd one under saturated. You have to ask yourself which of the 3 are closer to capturing you and the lighting set up. Not enough information in these 3 shots to really comment about them.

When? This is crazy fanboy talk. Of course any independent film can be called a feature film. That doesn't help your argument. The run and gun statement doesn't work for the P4K does it? Big an bulky when rigged out and no AF. It's sad that advice is thrown around the EOS and people spend thousands on gear and get investors involved because someone said "The power of the GH5/S, the Pocket 4K, etc. is that you CAN use it for a feature and get great results." Have some standards and support the DP's that suggest using cine cameras when they're called for. I little homework and investment in time would get you much better results that are great.

Low end Blackmagic and Z-Cam haven't produced quality products break into the cinema field. Canon has a foot hold in the cinema world. Out of ARRI, RED, SONY, and Canon which one of these continue to innovate in cinema? All of these do. Notice how I only listed 4 companies.

Nice work. Although MFT has issues I don't want to deal with, if Black Magic dedicated themselves into MFT and provided cine feature in a smaller form factor with IBIS, AF and faster frame rates then I would be all in. Yes it's worth it to work around sensor size and crop factor based on the rewards given. I just don't see the image quality with the GH5 to get behind it like other do. You wouldn't believe how many time I've wanted to buy the BMPCC because of the look.

The fact that the cinema world did not move down to the NFT sensor is telling isn't it. How does that work exactly? @kye and other (including you it seems) never knew the GH5 "had a look". Lots of GH5 speed booster threads back my comments up.

Not how it works. Profit margins might shrink but production cost don't go up because Olympus goes under. Smartphones, cameras, even games systems keep SRP at a certain spot decade after decade. The PS4 might not make much per system sold but they count on additional purchases. If you want proof look at BMP4k and P6K. How do they do it? How do they sale these for such a low price? COG and ROI is what drives the market and product price. The C300 II might have cost more to produce than the C300 III but that doesn't mean Canon will pass those saving to the customer. The same-thing happens if cost of good goes up. Nikon, Panasonic and Canon tried to over charge for their ff mirror less cameras and it back fired.

Of course different film size exist. What's the reason for MFT existence? Do you think film makers ever choose MFT because of "it's sensor size look" ? The difference and look have been talked about for pages and pages in this thread and just now people are admitting it. That's weird because that's why I mentioned anything to begin with. I'm glad you final spoke up and contributed.

This is the contradiction about your post and defenders of the GH5. You can't make the statement about about not matching MFT with Super35 sensor and then turn around and say "see the C300 Mark ii still it doesn't offer 60p 4K which the GH5 offers. " This is fan boy talk that doesn't address the issue. And based on 90% of EOS community how many people are delivering 4K 60p? so now the argument is about photography on the GH5? Wha? That's a little bit of a reach. Photography is not looked at well on the EOS. I personally love photography and it drives my cameras buying decision but the BM6K is ALSO NOT A PHOTOGRAPHY CAMERA.

The price isn't the issue. Color isn't part of the same look I'm talking about ( I should have been clear about this) The issue would be could you match it shot for shot. I don't think you can. Lots of great work in that video. My opinion you would lose a lot of what's working in those shots if you used a GH5. By the way the C300 II can be bought for $7,499.00

I'm not talking about price vs price. These are the GH5 specs everyone talks about. Why can't these specs come close to the C300 II ? We have quotes about the GH5 winning awards, being used by big time film makers, etc. Bingo. This is what I'm talking about. No one wants to address this because they don't understand it or they think DoF is the only thing they have to adjust for.

I think @Andrew Reid was talking about the pickering and calling people trolls that live in moms basement. The areas of the GH5 needs to be addressed by anyone using that camera with or without speed boosters. Every camera has color issues. Take a look at this video. It's technology from 2015. - Can the GH5 shoot this and if so what lens adjustments need to be made? - On paper spec wise the GH5 holds up to the C300 II - Can you get the same look? The same DOF subject to background parallax? - Can you get the same motion cadence? - Can you get the same color balance? We can talk offline if this is moving this thread off the original topic.

The GH5 crop / lens factor is all over the You Tube. I make sure my DP's use the right lens.

I want to like the P6K so much. Should I give it another try?

Shops fell because they didn't embrace online retail and weren't ready for Amazon. Amazon undercut all retail shops before retail shops knew how to counter cut Amazon. In 2020 a ToysRUs, Radio Shack, even Virgin Megastore could survive in the retail space. They all failed because they didn't want online sales to take away from brick and mortar sales. Right now you go into Best Buy, you look up the hard drive or camera accessory and check Amazons price and if it's cheaper Best Buy will match it. No waiting a day two or three for Amazon and you get to see items before you buy them. Stores closing had nothing to do with you buying online. Do you remember how long it took for Best Buy to price match? People are flooding into the store to buy items in person. People still get sucked into big store shopping experiences. I get your point and I do miss stores that closed down. Remember Blockbuster ? The had the world in their pocket and were flowing in cash. I would have never ever thought they could go under like they did. All stores have to do is price match Amazon and go all in with customer service, in-store-pick-up and returns. Online orders are a pain for returns, not knowing if products suck or not and damage while being shipped.

I think that was because the GH5 was mentioned.

Olympus falling (isn't that a movie) is connected to MFT and not a good sign. That's my take. I try to respond to people that reply to my comments.

I think Canon is going to lead the way with the R5 for FF hybrid shooting with video being priority. It should check all the boxes and be far ahead of everyone else. The dark horse will be BlackMagic for FF. With the price drop on the P6K I'm not sure how sales are going for them. They can't be making big profit on those cameras.

I'll work on my attitude. I can't promise anything and most will keep down voting my comments but I'm trying to help and give my take when I have one. I will try. What are you trying to move into? FF or Super35 ? I used MFT, moved to Super35 and then FF. Right now I could go Super35 if the right camera for the right price presented itself. FF is frustrating because you still have to buy into a system. Canon might be the way to go but we have to see final specs and real world testing. I very much want to move to Canon. Sony doesn't seem to want to innovate anymore and I don't trust them to be dedicated to FF down the road. I love the S1 and S1H and would move to Panasonic but the AF bothers me. I don't think AF is as bad as people say but I need to test it before I buy it.

Do I need to state what comments are facts and what are opinions? If clear anything in the future is opinion. It should be clear what's fan boy talk and talk about the GH5 short comings. The GH5 color issues should be apparent based on what cameras have followed them. The P4K showed us what was possible with a 4K sensors packaged at a lower price. The Z Cam E2 let the world know what great clean color a 4K sensor could produce. The last two comments are fact and not opinion. You might not like to read them because it sheds how far we've come from the GH5. The P4K and Z Cam E2 are the reasons why I won't buy a MFT camera and never recommend using the GH5. These two cameras prove my opionon about the GH5 is correct, that the GH5 is all spec with a picture that doesn't hold up to today's standards. You only have one shot to capture that footage. Think about that next time you hit record. On an important shoot I'm renting an ARRI or RED. Z Cam E2 is in the same price range and video only.