Super8

I didn't say it can't be done by professionals that what they want. I'm talking about 80% of GH5 footage on You Tube.

That makes sense. I'll try not to be so sensitive with American comments. We have issues and are in the shit hole right now. Olympus and Nikon's marketing is just bad and they keep missing the message and are horrible at building consumer confidence.

That's your opinion. Crop factor on the GH5 / MFT is a real issue if you look at from DP's perspective. And depth of field is one part of the issue. You can control depth of field but the shooters using a 50mm with the GH5 crop factor think they're shooting with a 50mm just by moving back and re-framing the shot. If you don't understand lens selection and how it affect the shot then don't get mad at me and call me a troll. GH5 / MFT footage and be called out a mile away based on the inherent generic look it produces. I've been on my own gigs with the BMP4K and it's MFT sensor and we always have issue trying to get the look we want vs Super 35 and FF on the same shoot. And after the fact no amount of color grading can separate the subject from the background to make up for shooting with the wrong lens on a MFT body. I actually appreciate Kye and how much detail is given in the post given. If people were being honest with him and GH5 users on the EOS then some of these issues would be addressed correctly. We all on the EOS strive to get more out of the cameras we buy or gear we have. We all want a cinematic look from the GH5, A6500, EOS-R and the list goes on. Yes professional DP's that use pro cine gear on big gigs don't have to worry about the issues we do. But that should push us to get better at what we do with the gear we have. Some how to heard mentality wants to down vote and call me a troll for saying the same-thing others are saying. The GH5 and MFT is not horrible and it's not the fan boy greatest camera in the world for the money either.

Good post. Thanks for the information. Does the Olympus line up produce better stills than the GH5? The sell off to JIP contradicts you comment. Yes the Japanese take pride in what they do and no one said they don't. I don't really like your back handed comment about Americans but that's ok. Japan / Olympus / Nikon seem to miss the boat with how to reach and market to consumers. Great products but missed the American market, the same hyper-capitalistic socciety that they need to sell cameras to.

I'm glad to have these back and forth conversations. I appreciate it. You're tone reminds me of my tone sometimes so I'm not hating. I do love the basement comment that gets thrown around. The Olympus MFT discussion has shifted to the GH5 and that's fine also. I do like the GH5 at 60fps and 120fps. My issue with the GH5 for color is based on my color grading the skin tone is lacking in mid tone accuracy and color detail. For some reason the GH5 and Panasonic fill in these areas and they look plastic and unnatural. I'm also not a big speed booster fan and don't care to figure out what to use to get the proper look. The crop factor issues changes more than the depth of field. The subject background relationship changes also. I am not describing this correctly but it would be the same if someone shot with a 35mm that was trying to get a 50mm look or a 50mm to get the 85mm look. The GH5 DP's never seem to be in step with the right lens for the shot. To me this is because they don't fully account for the crop factor MFT effect. And before you guys jump in and DOWN VOTE this post I have talk to more than a few great GH5 owners that jumped on the band wagon and produce great work with the GH5. We talk about color issues, crop factor, MFT sensor size vs full frame or Super 35 set ups. The GH5 is the reason we got the BMP4K. Does anyone know how many GH5's were sold? This actually answers the comments about camera sales. With the GH5 and BMP4K I truly believe those cameras took up a big part of the market. The people that bought them have held onto these investments and haven't jumped into a new system or are waiting on a camera that's better then what they have. The move to full frame mirror less just started in late 2018 early 2019. Before this you had Sony. Canon and Nikon were crushed by Sony's marketing machine and were well received until mid 2019 with the S1 arrival.

What does my colorist have to do with this thread? I really don't care what you think about my colorist abilities. Most on here never tried to comment about video comparisons that I posted. And like most on here I don't post links to my work. I actually shared my issues with BMP6K and having to correct footage. Not sure why you have issue with that? I actually do a lot more than color grading. I video edit, write scripts, direct, color grade, photography, produce and whole lot of other artist things. I never ever said Olympus was turning a profit. The reports say they didn't. I think Kye has me beat with the angry kid basement fanboy.

My case study is common sense based on the current market. Do you have any data to show what you say will come true? Where do you get your information? Please share it. Here's info from Olympus website: OPTION 1 GET THE OM-D E-M1X FREE AN $8,799.96 VALUE! -$2,999.99 SAVINGS YOUR PRICE $5,799.97 That's a huge discount and still a lot of money for a camera (with 3 lenses) This also is 100% not true. I know 21 year olds that travel the world and take photo's with their awsome smart phone and they come back and say the photo's look like crap and don't do justice to what a real camera could do. And the same 21 yr old is willing to buy a real camera. You're missing any common sense with the current market and what drives it. The desire to create content from photographs to video is connected and will always be. The current creative groups (all of us on the board and in the market) is not made up of old school film loading photographers or videographers. People might drop out and do something else but professional and pro hobbyist are embracing the camera market. The access to cameras, computers and diving into You Tube and other outlets to learn is amazing. The seasoned professionals and production houses will continue to buy new gear and content has to be made. Netflix and other content providers will only increase the quality that they deliver and 6k-8K will be the new 4K. So some of the falloff in the market will happen at the same-time new growth will happen because technology changes and improves. So what? You comment makes not sense and has no point at all. MSRP and SRP is who sets the prices. Online or brick and mortar store cannot slash and reduce the price of good sold, unless they are open box or refurbished items. This is the agreement store have with manufacturing companies. Stores can't undercut other resellers in most cases. They have a set amount they can discount products.

I'm sure it's a fun camera to use. My issue with GH5 footage i've graded is the color and DP's that use it miss the proper DOF that gives you the proper cinematic look. Depth and lens choice always seems off or settled on.

"As our chart illustrates, global camera shipments by CITA members dropped by more than 80 percent since peaking in 2010" Cameras shipped is not cameras sold. Smartphones have had an impact on cameras sales. Shipped camera units is also like shipped albums back in the day of records in the late 70's. Record companies would claim platinum records based on record shipped and not sales. Rules were changed by the RIAA to stop this.

The GH5 has color and bad codec issues. This is why the Z Cam E2 blows away the GH5 and why Panasonic hasn't released the GH6. It's clear the GH6 is not coming out. The one issue I have with Panasonic is they played the spec game with people and they sold a lot of GH5's based on specs only. Yes the GH5 was spec filled with great IBIS. But the GH5's image quality at 10bit never held up, ever. I've worked on a lot of GH5 footage that just falls apart in color grading. Colorist around the world know this to be true.

No. What case study have you seen that proves your fear mongering? The market will not shrink to one tenth of it's current size. The adjustments now are trimming the fat and companies that weren't profitable. The industry is not going anywhere and current companies will take up sales between them. All it does is put money into the remaining companies.

No not more expensive at all. The GH5 was $2,000 when it came out. For $2,000 you'll get more camera and better quality. Camera makers do not try and make the same product for less money or charge more for a slightly better model. We've seen this over the last 4 years. You will still have the prices set by business models that are 30 years old. Do some home work and see what price trends have been set over the years. You'll still have cameras at $300-500-800-1200-1500-2000-3000-3500-4000-$6500 and up. Why do cine cameras cost so much? How much does a Arri cost to produce? Parts only? This is why BM has been able to sell the BMP6K for that low price. In fact this camera disproves your comment that cameras will be more expensive as the market shrinks. In 2020 the call out is for more content that's delivered online. The camera / cine market will be just fine for long term.

No this is 100% wrong. Canon, Nikon and Sony have improved the photo capabilities in the mirrorless video cameras. The R5 should ba a monster for photo's also. I've never worked on a Marvel or Netflix set. I never said I did. I said I hired guys that have. Sure. Medium format for photography will never be fast enough to replace full frame cameras. MFT can produce a cine quality image for sure. Look at the Z Cam.

Your last post and this one are all over the place and your tone is aggressive. Photography is it's own deal. Medium format is great but just because you are influenced by You Tube videos doesn't mean that industry has a medium format fetish. Technology moves forward and medium format is great showcase for this. If you understood photography and the needs of photographers you would know what medium format is not an option for professionals. You actually get to earn an income for your investment in your camera gear. And this is why the shift upward is away from MFT. Sorry but the size weight argument is a cop out and weak if that's the main selling point for MFT. I know your a fan boy of the GH5 and you are emotionally attached but size/weight and even cost is not a selling point like it was 3 years ago. Take a look back at the electronic industry. Many many examples of technology moving forward and leaving the original hardware behind. Remember today's cameras are small computers. Today's mirrorless sensors and processor technology will passed by and left behind. If you weren't so blinded and emotional about the GH5 you would realize why professional colorist see a lot of GH5 footage. A) A lot of GH5's were sold B) Based on GH5 specs the uneducated user thought it could be passed on as "professional looking" footage C) Color grading often comes in to save the day D) Ask your color grading buddies the top 3 issues with GH5 footage and if they can spot GH5 footage by "it's native look". See below: Using the GH5 on productions cause issues with post production cost. Having to color grade GH5 footage to the extent that it's tv ready is an issue. Do you know how much a colorist day rate is? You might want to stop trying to pretend how American Pickers or any other reality tv production works. The production crew they hired will be charging the day rate rental cost back to the network. The network does not but gears and hand it out on set to save rental cost. Industry standard is to line item everything as a rental fee rate if it's used on set or in production. You bring a 3 ton lighting truck to a shoot and you're charged for anything that comes off that truck. In summery the production (American Pickers) is paying gear rental fees regardless. The hired production company can save money by buying GH5's but you better believe someone is paying to have that GH5 color corrected. So in the end the production cost is higher than if they used better cameras that need very little color grading. You might want to compare the Z Cam E2 to the GH5 and see how far back the GH5's image quality really is. At the end of the day you hit record once and you capture. Going back and trying to fix footage from cheap cameras has it's limitations. At some point it's ok to be a image snob or perfectionist. Who want to look back and say "oh, yeah that was shot on the GH5 because we were fan boys and bought into the system".

No it's simple. Try and follow. When NO ONE makes MFT cameras anymore then that format is dead. It happened to DSLR's. You could say the PS2 is the greatest gaming system ever or that the Dreamcast rules and you still have one. (This will be you with MFT gear). Most of the real world is locked down or coming out of lock down. I hire people that have worked on Marvel, and Netflix series. You really don't have a clue at all. RED owners do hang out on RED forums. EVA owners hand out online also and the list goes on and on. The EOSHD is not the cine gear hangout is it? That doesn't mean we don't work in the industry or with people in the industry. I'll always appreciate and love photography. Looks like you can't see the connection between photography and video. Wait - You're defending the GH5 / MFT but at the same time you make back handed comments about me not "what is happening in the industry." And then say "The reality of working DOPs is that most of them aren't online". really? Which one are you? I thought you It's invisible to use because A) it's not Netflix or Cine approved and would be laughed at if you brought a GH5 on set or used it as part of a pitch on a union gig. B) it's invisible to use because no one is using the GH5 in cinematography world. C) Working pro's are not using the GH5 on professional gigs that don't fall under run and gun productions. D) The bigger the budget the better gear you get and the better DP you get. E) Name that A,B,C or D list working pro that's using the GH5 as it's main camera on all professional gigs. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. You seem to be hinting the GH5 is being used and seen on tv and it's not. Everyone has the list of cameras and gear used on everything you see on the broadcast tv. I'm also not talking about what American Pickers was shot with. The upheaval isn't causing people to go out and buy GH5's for their next production. TV and Netflix haven't lowered it's standards and accepted the GH5 Not sure why you don't see all the signs about MFT's longevity. It has nothing to do with the quality of MFT and everything to do with what will be produced. Bloodlines was shot with the Sony F55 and cinematographer Jaimie Reynoso work is brilliant.

MFT is dead because companies will stop making the bodies and sensors. I didn't say anything about lenses. My point should have been clear. You kinda discredit yourself with this comment. 4K60, or the 400Mbps All-I 4K 10-bit internal, or the 5K 10-bit open gate h.265 on the GH5 is not the same as what's produced with the S1H. The compressed, sharpened, 10-bit that looks like 8-bit H.265 files from the GH5 just doesn't hold up in any way. You have a time where specs don't match the image produced. And if the GH5 produced that good of an image then it would be relevant today.

You can take a good picture with an iPhone. So that kinda defeats the purpose of your comment. You might want to compare the MFT images and VIDEO and see where the GH5 lands and everything else that full frame. Maybe it's anything above 4K that's an issue with MFT but full frame sensor technology has just started to get pushed. MFT on the other hand seems maxed out. I never said MFT was bad it's just going to get left behind. If companies don;t make MFT cameras then what's the point of staying with MFT? At some point you won't have cameras to use the MFT glass with.

Exactly. People are still denying it. MFT can be around in the second hand market for the next 20 years and so what? In this case it's about the manufacturing companies deciding what direction the market is going. It doesn't matter if MFT is a viable sensor size and how many speedboasters you can slap on it. I would hate to be the guy that ask for advice online about MFT and if it's the way to go in 2020. At some point you have to be honest and give the advice you don't want to give but you know is true. MFT is not a future proof system that anyone should buy right now. Look how fast the GH5 became irrelevant. Panasonic going fullframe and leading the market as the company to beat and this is the same company that gave us the GH5? Sony, Nikon, Canon and Panasonic are counting on full frame sensor cameras as the future. That's what you roadmap and invest in. Not MFT, not in 2020. We don't want full frame 8K or even 6K but we're going to get it.

The same 3 people DOWN-VOTING my comments. Thanks for the effort.

Nikon could very well do that. What's with the innuendos ? "Size doesn't mater it's how you use it"? Really? Nikon like Panasonic have moved into full frame mirror less. We have Nikon, Canon, Sony and Panasonic. Is this a crowded market? I have and would own cameras from each brand if the value is right. I could see Sony backing off of really supporting it's camera line up. Why? The PS5 will get a major push this year and that's the money train for them. Sony has also been dormant since the A7III and I think they feel they don't have to lead the market anymore with the latest and greatest. Sony's marketing machine is better than it's product. Canon and Panasonic have moved it's mirror less product toward it's cinema line up and that's future proofing the product line up. Nikon's marketing sucks but the product don't. MFT is just about dead.

Why? The G7 was great, the GH5 was great. Investing in MFT in the future will be difficult to sell to people. The industry is moving toward full frame with super35 being preferred over MFT. At this point it's all up to the manufactures and what direction they move toward. I just don't see the new MFT camera releases to make it a viable product. The market has shifted away from the GH5 model.

MFT is not a wise investment for non-cine camera makers. BMP6K moved the needle too far to compete. APS-C makes total sense. But Panasonic also counted on it's AF system to work properly and no one to be the wiser.

DOP do need to listen to the director. I was saying that they don't listen in the cases where they are shooters and are given everything they need to get the shot. Most people that call themselves DOP are really just shooters.

What do you see in the video posted?

What is "white trash reality tv aesthetics"?