herein2020

I loved the idea of switching my entire kit over to an EVA1, S1H, and S1 but I couldn't do it; I feel like the L mount is DOA, the lens selection is still nearly non existent and expensive, and of course AF is nowhere to be found. I would love to take Panasonic seriously for photography but I just can't and my current system works too well to spend $30K to lose lens selection and AF just to gain a few video features. Given the big R5 and R6 disappointments I love my 5DIV, C200, GH5 combo even more; its far from perfect and is a weird mix of different shortcomings (5DIV no IBIS, terrible 4K codec, GH5 terrible highlight rolloff, no AF, bad color science, useless for pictures, C200 A cam only, no 10 bit, too big and bulky for gimbal work), but together I can do just about any job that comes my way (lets not forget various drones and GoPro for underwater work). The good news is Canon managed to make so many major screw ups with both the R5 and R6 that they have helped me to better appreciate the reliability and capabilities of my current gear. With all of that said, if Panasonic did release a GH6 with DPAF and 4K120 I probably would replace the GH5 with the GH6.

Apparently the 1DXIII is the last time Canon truly cared about stability so they went the very safe route with it and kept everything well below it's overheating limits. Even though it is larger, it has even more weather sealing than the R5 so more than likely even it might overheat at 4K120FPS, of course since it does not have IBIS maybe it could handle 4K120FPS without overheating. Another thing people don't seem to be talking about with all these cameras is what damage is done to the internals when they regularly overheat or run that hot? Overheating that often can't be good for the circuit boards and I would imagine strange and inexplicable problems will show up prematurely in those cameras but right after the warranty has expired.

Skin tones and colors is why I really want a Canon product to work for me. My GH5 takes so much work in post to get the skin tones right...and if there is a hot spot from lighting forget about it. My 5DIV has incredible skin tones and highlight rolloff I can only imagine the R5 and R6.....but the overheating problem really killed it for me. If I can't completely replace my GH5 with the R5 or R6 then I'm not going to get one; and right now there is no way I would trust either of them to do what my GH5 does. I would love to reduce my kit to a C200 for long form, R5 for photography, and R6 for B-cam and hybrid photo/video shoots....but it looks like I'll need to wait on the Mark II versions for that to happen and knowing Canon that could be 4yrs from now.

What part of overheating has to do with specs? You can't even shoot 480p if your camera has overheated. If I cared about specs I would have been interested in the R5 just because it has the larger 45MP sensor. To me dual card slot recording, true hybrid capability (50/50 photo/video), reliability, and AF for gimbal work are more important than specs. Of course maybe you just meant in general at which point I agree with you; if Canon had released reliable 4K120FPS, dual card slot recording, no recording limit time limit, and reliable cut off limits for 4K120fps that were not thermal related I'd have pre-ordered the R5 or R6 (whichever provided this capability). As it stands now, I'm going to sit back and enjoy my 5DIV, C200, and GH5 for at least 2 more years until the dust settles.

The Tilta option is a complete joke..that's just not how thermodynamics works....the first problem is it is a weather sealed body, blowing ambient temp air onto the outside of a weather sealed body doesn't make it cool down any faster. The second problem is that the fan needs power, the sound will get picked up by any mic, you would only be able to use it away from your face and good luck if you are a woman trying to keep your hair from being pulled into the fan. Most importantly nothing about that design actually draws heat away from the body......typically you have cooling fins and a fan that draws cooler air across the fins which takes the heat away from the heat source. This is more like putting on a space suit and walking through the Sahara desert while a fan blows on the outside of your space helmet....totally useless.

The Osmo will probably be better for your uses, and the good news is if you buy it used you still aren't giving DJI any of your money :). I hadn't heard about the bugs in the 7, I had a Hero 3 sitting in my drawer for years and the only reason I upgraded was due to the Hypersmooth feature. If DJI hadn't pissed me off I probably would have gotten the Osmo.

I know you said the GoPro is out of your budget but I do love my Hero8 and Hypersmooth 2.0 is incredible. I only use mine for underwater footage since the case alone for my main camera would have cost more than a GoPro 8 with a waterproof case. I don't know how Hypersmooth compares to the Osmo but for my uses stability is very important. I shoot it with a flat profile at 4K60FPS and it grades really well as underwater footage. There might be some used Hero7s that are within your budget, and I read that Hypersmooth 1.0 in the Hero7 is almost as good. I don't know anything about their software, it probably isn't very good, I bring my footage right from the memory card into Davinci Resolve for editing. Here is a pretty good stabilization side by side review and it looks like the Osmo holds its own. When I was deciding between the Osmo and the GoPro the Osmo left a bad taste in my mouth strictly because of DJI's terrible support. I was on their forums and said something critical about one of their products and they banned me from posting after that. So yea....I'm not DJI's biggest fan.

That is not exactly correct either...Canon did not mention overheating for those modes at 23C. At 35C here in FL it probably wouldn't even take pictures.

I think everyone kind of expected that to be no more than a disclaimer and that in the real world it wouldn't really be that bad. I definitely wouldn't have taken the R6 as my only camera on a shoot like that either but I can see why he did. Actually, knowing what I know now I know the R6 is not even a camera I will use let alone own due to my video needs.

Very disappointed, it looks like I'll need to wait another 2yrs for a Canon hybrid gimbal camera. No way am I touching the R6 the way it is now. It is clearly photography first and video if you are doing a documentary in the Antarctic. So far this camera seems worse than the EOS R for video at least the EOS R doesn't overheat, and I'll take a single card slot and horrible FN bar any day over a dead camera.

I've lost interest in all things Canon at the moment...due to reports like this: https://www.C5D.com/canon-eos-r6-review-first-look-with-footage-serious-limitation-doubtful-video-tool/

For me that camera is DOA if that is how it performs in the real world. My GH5 has NEVER overheated and it regularly shoots after sitting in a 120 degree car, in hot direct Florida sunlight and nearly always at 4K60FPS.

I doubt it would, does the 1DX III have worse DR than the XT3? DXO Mark shows the 1DX III has 14.5 stops...the XT3 is probably around the 12 stop mark.

I don't do many weddings (not my thing) but when I do, the camera doesn't come off its strap and off my shoulder until the wedding is over and I never take the cards out for the whole event. I own just the 5DIV for photography and rent a second body when needed for events. The rental fee is in the invoice for the project. If the project is too small to afford the rental fee then my backup body is my timelapse camera a good old Canon Rebel T6s. With that said, I've never had a single failure in my 5DIV in 4yrs and my 5DIII for the 4yrs before that so not one Canon body failure in 8yrs.

That is very odd, Resolve completely chokes on H.265 out of the GoPro, but I think that is LongGOP. I haven't tried H.265 out of the drones, that's probably LongGOP as well. What is your source camera? I kept building faster and faster machines and finally gave up and just create proxies for most of my footage now.

I'm with you, I never do either, but the GoPro is a new addition and I haven't yet ordered storage for it...definitely not surprised at the corruption but it did remind me why I like dual recording. If the R6 can survive a 95F 100% humidity day with 4K60FPS clips throughout the day and a mixture of photography as well then it could still work for me. So many factors make a thermal issue so unpredictable. H.265 from the GoPro is really painful to edit, I create proxies for all drone and GoPro footage. Even my GH5 I have to create proxies for if I'm doing much more than simple cuts. I do like how little IPB and LongGOP use for storage but the tradeoff is definitely editing pain.

It's kind of funny, I just had a corrupted microSD card two days ago, only my 4th time encountering it. This was from a GoPro so I had no redundancy. Surprisingly in Windows 10 the Chkdsk /F command fixed the card; the file table was missing. While I was on the job I pulled the microSD card from the drone and put it in the GoPro and the GoPro must have corrupted it. I typically never do that and always format first using the gear that will write to the card but a storm was coming in and I didn't have time to backup the footage to the laptop then format the card in the GoPro. One of my favorite features is dual slot recording, even though my drones and GoPro don't have it, their footage is typically easy to reshoot if needed anyway. Now though more reports are coming in that the R6 really does overheat during normal use so just when I almost rationalized one card recording....the overheating issue comes back to the forefront. If it turns out that overheating really is a common thing for the R6 then it is definitely a no go for me. I am interested to see if moving the batteries to a battery grip will help the issue at all. I think the IPB codec is not as bad as people are making it sound, I shoot LongGOP with the GH5 for smaller projects and no one notices or cares; YouTube does far worse to any footage than any modern camera. In the video below one guy talks quite a bit about the differences and reaches the same conclusion that I did years ago...no one will really notice the difference unless you are shooting a Hollywood blockbuster; even some of those have been shot on GoPros and iPhones:

I'm too disappointed to buy either one. Until Canon removes that ridiculous 30min recording limit and offers backup video recording neither of these cameras can replace my GH5. If they do add backup recording and remove the time limit from the R6 and the thermal issues prove to be not as bad as it sounds then I'll probably at a minimum get two R6's to replace the GH5 and maybe an R5 to replace the 5DIV.

I love the DPAF on my 5DIV and couldn't believe how natural the AF looked and it is probably light years behind the R5 and R6. The AF on my C200 which also uses DPAF is great as well. I am sure the R5 and R6 will be even better. I didn't even discover my 5DIV's video capabilities until I went on an overseas vacation and did not want to lug around my GH5 and 5DIV so I only took the 5DIV for pictures. So mid vacation I decided to record a few short clips and the quality blew me away. I started out in MF since that's what I'm used to but there was too much fast moving action so I switched to AF just to see how bad it would be and it was like rediscovering AF all over again. Then I got back home from the vacation and it was like rediscovering Canon's color science all over again. Mind you this is all just 1080P since I will never record in the 5DIV's horrible MJPEG, I can't imagine what 4K out of the R5 or R6 will look like.

The difference is every other thread was based on pre-production models and heresay. Also Canon had not publicly admitted the problem also exists in the R6 until now.

The R6's video might still be slightly better, especially in low light, and the AF will definitely be better in the R6 if that's important to you. It also uses the full width of the sensor with almost no crop even in modes where it won't overheat. I would recommend though that you wait out the pre-order hype and see how bad the overheating issues are in the real world. It is unlike Canon to release something that has a fundamental hardware flaw but it is also unlike them to release a camera that overheats so I wouldn't buy one until there's plenty of real world evidence that any other problems that are found can be fixed through firmware.

That's a lot of testing but do you want to know what I do? I have a GH5 also, I shoot nearly everything in 8bit 4:2:0 LongGOP 4K 60FPS and deliver every project in 1080P with a 16MB/s or 8MB/s bitrate and not one paying customer has complained about the video quality. I used to go through the same hand wringing over quality until I realized I'm not creating Hollywood blockbusters, my footage is going to be totally trashed by YT compression, and my clients will never notice the difference; they care about the content and have no idea where the quality could have been better. I also have a C200 and have never shot a single project in RAW...everything is 4:2:0 LongGOP and my clients love it. For both cameras I avoid WDR scenarios whenever possible, I perfectly white balance the scene, and I shoot CLOG3 with the C200 and CinelikeD with the GH5. Sure 10bit and RAW give you more latitude in post....but in most situations I have found that highlight rolloff and white balance are the two things that will make your footage fall apart in post if you are shooting 8bit. If you can get those right in camera you won't have any problems in post. If I ever get a big time paying commercial gig in the 5 figure+ range then sure, I'll switch the C200 over to RAW and happily invoice the client for the extra storage and post processing time required or I might even go and rent something even fancier, but until then there is no way I am wasting my storage space, time, or equipment to improve quality that is impossible for the average viewer to see especially when 90% of them will view the footage on a tiny cell phone screen.

I kept holding out hope that the overheating issues weren't that bad, or that they only affected the pre-production models, but Canon released official guidance that both the R5 and R6 will overheat in nearly every mode. They recommend not leaving it in direct sunlight, turning it off between takes, sitting it in front of a fan to keep it cool.....are they serious?? What's next, bring your own refrigerator to every shoot if you want to shoot for the whole day?? And before everyone starts saying but who needs to record that long and if you need to record that much footage just get a cinema camera; I already have a cinema camera, there are many projects where the client is not paying enough to bring it out, or the shooting conditions are so bad that I don't want to risk my cinema camera for that type of project, or it is just too big and heavy to lug through the woods just to do an interview. The tables presented by Canon are for 73F ambient temps, I live in FL, 8 months out of the year it is around 90F and 100% humidity, there is no way the times won't be drastically reduced in that type of heat My camera gear regularly has to sit in my car where it reaches 120F and 100% humidity and this is not something I can change. If I'm on a photo/video shoot my gear has to sit in the car until I'm ready to shoot video or vice versa, if I'm flying a drone, or shooting underwater, or coordinating with the customer or any number of other things the safest place for the rest of my gear is usually in my car...that's not going to change. For those that say just shoot in a lower resolution mode. Why?? If you buy a camera with a 50MP sensor would you be ok with only being able to take 10MP pictures most of the time? I shoot nearly everything with my GH5 at 4K60FPS....so after paying $6000 for a new body and lenses for it I should be ok with shooting at 4K30FPS? And what about multiple quick takes at 98F and 100% humidity? How many of those do you get before you get thermally shutdown? All Canon had to do was pull a page from Panasonic's playbook and make the R6H with a larger body, cooling fans, no recording limits, and backup video recording and I would have been perfectly happy. Reference link: https://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Canon-EOS-R5-and-R6-Overheating-Media-Alert.pdf

I guess the following official table from Canon doesn't exist then. Not just pre-production and not just the R5 but the R6 as well. There is no way to sugar coat it...Canon should have done whatever it took to make these cameras more reliable (larger body, separate dedicated video body like the S1H, active/passive cooling etc). But I honestly care less about the overheating issue than I do about the fact that in 2020 Canon includes dual card slots in their two new hybrid flagship cameras and their latest DSLR flagship the 1DXIII yet you cannot record backup video in any of them. Or the fact they still have a 30min recording limit when even Europe removed the tax. Photographers skewered Canon when they only had one card slot in the EOS R (myself included) why don't videographers ever complain when Canon refuses to provide backup capability for video? The camera might as well have one card slot for videographers. But back on topic...the worst part about the ridiculous recording times below is that they apply only in 23 c / 73 f degree ambient temps. What about 98F and 100% humidity Florida weather after sitting in a 120 degree car with 100% humidity for a few hours? This is a real scenario that I encounter all the time and it can't be helped for certain shoots. My 5DIV, GH5, and DJI drones all perform flawlessly every single time in this scenario.

For me the main problem with the R6 is no backup video recording. I am concerned about the reports of overheating, but I feel like there's not enough real world feedback to know how pervasive the issue will be. Dual slot recording on the other hand is clearly not included in the R6 and severely crippled in the R5. I emailed Canon to be certain this isn't planned anytime soon and they replied that it was not currently planned and that they would forward my feedback to the engineers in Japan. They also seemed to hint that feedback in itself (especially from America) does not mean much and that the market response as well as hardware limitations are more important to the Japanese engineers. I've been thinking and trying to decide if I am ready to live with the fact the R6 has no backup recording for video since to me it is perfect in many other ways and there's things you can do to protect the SD card like turn on the write protection prior to copying the footage but then I just get annoyed that I even have to consider such compromises from a $2500 body + new lens system when my GH5, the S1, the S1H, and multiple Sony models already have the feature. They have compromises in other areas but none of them involve potentially losing a days worth of shooting. I have also experienced first hand 3 SD cards get corrupted and each time all I did was pull out the second one from my GH5 and use that instead, so I'm not in the camp of "it can't happen to me". It did turn out that it was the card reader that was corrupting the cards, not the camera or the card but it still proves it's certainly possible. Last but not least, I cannot find it documented anywhere that the 1DX III even supports backup recording. It does let you record RAW on one card and MP4 on the second card like the R5, but true backup recording is the same format on both cards and according to the 1DX III documentation this is not supported: https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/eos-1dx-mark-iii