TomTheDP

I've had the Emotive Color lut break the Panasonic s1 4k 10 bit files. What happens is you get like weird looking noise. Hard to explain I'd have to post some photos. I suppose neat video would probably fix the issue. I would also imagine if you shoot RAW this probably wouldn't happen but that is a guess.

I compared it with my Classic shooting prores 2k.

The rendering on newer Sony cameras is nice even just shooting 10 bit with their 709 luts. The problem I have encountered not particular to Sony is just more subtle or small color differences that are hard to correct for. Would definitely be interesting to see the Sony in mixed lighting against the Alexa. Maybe just shooting in RAW and going through ACES gives a good match.

Has he tested it directly against an Alexa? Cameras are definitely getting better and better.

Yeah I like the color coming out of the FP better and CDNG just looks more organic than anything I have seen from the S1. That said otherwise they are very similar cameras. Possibly the same sensor? You get more resolution and frame rate options on the S1. I agree the S1 is super convenient. pretty nice button layout, IBIS opens up a lot of new shooting styles, solid full hdmi, and small but pretty high quality codecs. The thing the S1 is still lacking like every other "cheap" camera is poor focus peaking and HDMI lag. It's hard to pull critical focus as the HDMI out introduces noticeable lag. Not a problem for the most part but if I am on set with an AC, its not a great situation. Plus these smaller cameras are often the "gimbal" or odd rig cam where you actually really need remote focus. I don't know if you've ever used ARRI focus peaking or RED but it's night and day better than on these cheap cameras. Another issue, though this is less critical I suppose, is proper REC709 monitoring. On Alexa or RED what you see on the LCD is what you are getting. Accurate color and noise. Monitoring on the S1 or any cheap camera I have seen is not accurate. In terms of usability the FP has to be rigged up for handheld shooting for sure. The micro HDMI is very concerning but I'll do my best to keep it intact. The Pocket 4k is hard to beat. It is so cheap to start with. Blackmagic menus are the best in the game. The non tilt screen is annoying as well as the relatively short battery life. Overall though I have never loved the BM image, which is why I've not bought any of their newer cameras. Overall though the P4K is a great value, 1k for something that is close to full frame with a speedbooster and has internal compressed "raw" up to 4k 60p. It does suffer from the same hdmi lag and shit focus peaking. It does have full hdmi which is a blessing. Yeah at the end of the day it's recording 12 bit linear RAW, when the sensor is capable of 14. So data is being thrown away. I am personally not big on the Sony look which is why I wouldn't go the A7S3 route. I honestly feel the FP image is better despite capturing less color information. The thing about the Alexa is even if you just record in 422 it looks fantastic. I feel the color you can quickly get off the Sigma is really really nice. It's almost making me want to sell my Alexa, but the FP is just not suited for A cam usage on a "real" set.

By the way I tested the ARRI against the Sigma in a mixed lighting condition. Lit myself with a blue light on one side and and orange light over head. I was really pleased how close it looked to the Alexa after adjusting WB, tint, and contrast. Its really too bad all the cheaper cameras have crap focus peaking and terrible laggy HDMI out. The image quality is there but the practical usability on set isn't. But hey still pretty cool to have something like this for a little over a thousand bucks. I am sure this was already posted but maybe worthy of posting again. Really nice imagery imo

Yeah shooting outside at least you can't go wrong protecting your highlights unless maybe you are shooting a subject with the sun behind them but no camera will really handle that perfectly.

Just trying to find the ideal color workflow. I am sure for the majority of people this is pointless discussion.

Yeah I suppose if it renders accurate color in lightroom it should in general. The ARRI Alexa has very accurate color, but I think having accurate color under all lighting conditions and mixed lighting conditions is what really makes for more pleasing rendering. Very few cameras can do that.

yeah but adobe color is not really an option in NLE's unless you want to process in lightroom first.

@Ryan Earl If you isolate the color chart and check the vectorscope which is more accurate?

So my first impressions were instant regret. I took some video to find terrible banding in the deep shadows. After updating to the current firmware and playing around a bit more I think I am satisfied. You definitely got to follow an image workflow. @Ryan Earl suggestion seems to work well. Set the RAW to the P3 D60 colorspace and gamma to linear than apply the color space transform and set the output to REC709 and gamma 2.4. Adjust the max input on tone mapping to 1000 and you are set. Setting it to the blackmagic colorspace is a bit quicker to do and looks pretty good. But the colors are vastly different and it doesn't retain information quite as well. Might be good for matching to other BM cameras though. What I have found is that the shadows fall apart way quicker in both 10 bit and 8 bit RAW. 12 bit seems the way to go. To be fair I was pushing the shadows really hard. Overall the image is nice and organic. I think I am sold. I really hope sigma can fix the monitoring for 3200 iso, would really make it quite the camera. Its no Arri Alexa but there is something nice about CDNG. I wish Premiere supported DNG better.

Do you use an external monitor on the GH5? I feel the GH5 ISO range is much more sensible for run and gun shooting. Though I guess the native 2000 would be nice for lowlight situations. I've felt the GH5 performed nicely up to 3200 iso. I suppose on the GH6 you can always drop to the standard single gain mode and get a native 400 iso. I think the GH6 may be the best run and gun camera now. I feel like a Sigma FP with BM video assist is too cumbersome. The video assist is also a power hungry bastard. The FP with a little SSD on top and the tilt screen mod seems really run and gun friendly. Not sure what good options there are for OIS lenses and L mount. A 2TB card gets you 2 hours in 4k, not bad at all. You can compress to 7/1 raw and get really small files with Slimraw. But you can only monitor accurately at iso 100, unless you have a ninja V. Overall I feel the Sigma FP isn't terribly run and gun friendly. Too many little quirks. I am planning on using the FP as a travel cam as well as an Alexa B cam. For travel I generally shoot wider so I don't have to worry about stabilization. I think on full frame I can get away with shooting up to 50mm handheld without much of an issue.

There are some pro people who shoot in extreme situations as well. But yeah do your thing. It seems like the GH5 is still unmatched for true run and gun shooting.

Yeah I meant more in terms of color. I'd imagine the dynamic range isn't too far off. The Alexa has a full 6 stops in the highlights. Its harder to judge shadows on the Alexa, it gets noisy quickly but its pleasant noise and information is still there along with color accuracy. I would say 3 stops under and 6 over on the Alexa though. The Alexa is just so easy to get a good image out of. From what I have seen Sigma FP colors are pretty true to life, which should mean they aren't far off from ARRI. I am playing with some test footage right now, it looks really lovely though when over exposed it's not pretty. On the plus side the SlimRAW program is super easy to use and fast. Will make storing files really easy with the 7-1 option. It's unfortunate that monitoring the RAW is kind of a pain. Another nice thing about the Alexa is the zero lag SDI output that will also output a 100% accurate REC709 or log signal to a monitor. It's so nice for client or anything where there is an on set producer or director.

I think the compression acts as a denoiser in someway. But overall that footage looks fantastic. The camera has dual native ISO at 3200 so it should look very clean. I will probably get the side viewfinder eventually. I am not quite sure if it offers a full hdmi out, which could be beneficial. I think I will buy the tilt screen modification.

The S1 series cameras are definitely fantastic. The best 10 bit image on the market under 10k IMO other than the RED Komodo. I think the Sigma FP tops it but the lack of an easy 10 bit codec puts it out of the running in that category. Low light performance is also stellar up to 12,800 iso. I do wish it had 4k 60p in full frame, but its really not a deal breaker in anyway. I just got a Sigma FP and am about to sell my lumix S1 kit. I am sacrificing all ergonomics and convenience for CDNG IQ and sigma color. The S1 is hard to beat if you want something fast with a stellar and easy image workflow.

Just purchased this camera, coming tomorrow. I am really interested to see how it can match to the ARRI alexa.

Not sure about that one, I've never not used my tripod on a shoot. The movie business is booming in Detroit. I'd say camera equipment is a short term investment anyways, you make a bunch of money with it and the equipment itself loses value. Aside from maybe cinema lenses.

I have heard the GH6 doesn't have oversampled 1080p. The thing about full vlog is better color than HLG. I dunno, for me just exposing spot on in VLOG and throwing a LUT on is pretty easy. It also gives me the flexibility to easily change the look if I so decide for some reason.

Yeah it keeps the information in the shadows rather than highlights. Still you'll inevitably run into situations where you have to clips highlights and that sounds problematic.

I usually like having that extra dynamic range in the shadows. Of course I try to know my gear as well as I can but I do like single native ISO that is the same across the board regardless of frame rate.

Yeah its something I like about a lot of older cameras, there isn't a lot to choose from and that is kinda nice.

Yeah I guess I am speaking to long form filmmaking specifically. It's one thing to do a bunch of cool shots in a 5 minute youtube video but to carry that same energy in a 2 hour film is expensive and complicated. Even if you are shooting on maybe an ideal run and gun setup a Sony A7S3 on a nice gimbal you still run into the issue of more complicated blocking, auto focus not behaving and doing what you want when you have more than 1 subject in the frame, lighting difficulties etc.. Here in Detroit there is an odd independent feature film market that is making money. Very low budgets and lots of directors/producers who have a "vision" but have no idea the resources or time that vision requires. They basically ask if we can do the Euphoria look but only spend 1/100 of what HBO spent on that show. You'd be surprised the kind of crap people will watch even when Netflix and HBO quality shows are available.

I don't know man, tripod is honestly the way to go for most things. Most people don't have the budget to do good moving shots outside of really basic stuff. Everyone wants to be Euphoria without having any of the resources to pull it off.