zlfan

help the image keep from falling apart too, like adding noise true.

" We did the color correction for "Key & Peele" on a Davinci Resolve. Of note is the fact that our recording medium for the season (after a horrific trial with one of the external 10-bit 4:2:2 recorders) was 50 Mbs XDCAM disc. We never lost a frame and we have hard masters of all of our footage, but I didn't learn until we were in post that that is an 8 bit standard. However we were able to do a tremendous amount of push/pull and the 8 bit never seemed to create problems. There is, of course, a notable difference between 35 and 50 Mbs. The shots we did in non s-log (60fps material) were far more problematic. __________________ Charles Papert" i think he did the whole season 1 on key and peele with f3 s log to 8 bit nano flash 50 mbits mpeg2 long gop. cg is really good. something to consider though, f3 has a nice sensor and good dsp; he had good budget on lighting, maybe he used one stop lower than the native iso to reduce noise; most of the scenes were staged so he could control dr. but the final results are amazing for 8 bit 50 mbits mpeg2 long gop. https://vimeo.com/channels/keypeele

10 bit vs 8 bit. to make 10 bit really better than 8 bit, the camera has to be very quiet. when the codec is thick and the camera is at high iso, noise cancels the limited advantage of 10 bit over 8 bit. and most modern cameras shoot log at native iso of 800 to 2000, at which starting to show noise, even though the latest cams have good low light capabilities. for log shooting, in order to protect high light, it is typically to expose at about 60%-70% ire, and this is typically darker or underexposed, or ettl on the histogram. for most digital sensors, ettr when shooting and then push half a stop to one stop down in post to reduce noise makes the image looking darn good. shooting log ettl then pull up half a stop or a stop, you will see heavy noise in the shade frequently. personally, i think 12 -16 bit raw shooting is the best if wanting to do post cg. 10 bit log does not have much more benefit over 8 bit rec 709 if you shoot 8 bit rec 709 sooc. the reason why 10 bit log is useful is to match the color of different cameras in post. nowadays, 10 bit log is used as a quick leeway to 12 bit raw, which is not the right approach in most of the cases, imho.

The traditional TV network industry uses 50 mbits long gop codec as the standard, like bbc does. twenty years ago, when it was established, it was really good at the time. nowadays, higher standard should be implemented. i agree with you that arri and red reels are good even on 10 years' old youtube channels. i notice this also on tv too. typical news pieces are shits, all kinds of muddy damped color, but the movie channels, especially the black and white ones, are much better looking.

i think the motion blur we talked about is actually 24p film based, means no blur from rolling shutter, no blur from codecs. nowadays, lower end digital cameras have more to worry about than using a 24p film cam.

i rewatched my previous footage to make sure the above mentioned impression is right. to my surprise, only ml raw is really tack sharp during slow panning, r1mx is close enough but if panning speed is a little bit up, there is still something blurred or dizziness. prores hq at 24p is clearer than xavc480, but still there is some bumpy fillings, nano flash's highest 280 mbits intra frame is about 50% more than prores hq, still there is blur/dizziness during panning. it is a joke that 50 mbits long gop codec is the standard for broadcast industry. uncompressed/true lossless raw is the king if wanting to shoot 24p.

for your financial status, i think a brand new alexa 35 plus a set of cooke primes for portraiture, and another red monstro 8k and a set of zeiss master primes for nature, either miller or oconner or sachtler heavy duty tripod is fine. you may need a small travel package, om1 with some pro lenses are good for this purpose.

wow

i hope there is an affordable cinema camera using foveon based ccd sensor, global shutter (ccd sensors are gs), s35 or vv, 10 mp, 24 bit, uncompressed raw, 60p, will beat 8k 12k cameras to death.

try 180 or 360 degree slow panning, you will see clearly the difference between 24p and 60p. for 24p slow wide panning, i am used to ml raw's unaffected image quality, r1mx's redcode 42 is good enough, prores 422 hq is barely enough, even renowned xavc 480 makes me feel dizzy, not to say other thinner codecs which are popularly used in many latest mirrorless cams. on the other hand, even af100a's avchd 24 mbits 60p is totally fine to my eyes. for hollywood blockbusters, even they use 24p mostly, you never know if they do motion blur reduction in post or other techniques onsite to reduce motion blurs, unless you are onsite or in the circle.

i think the sensor design then was way more free going than now. now all sensors try to mimic alexa, not bad, but not much diversity.

totally agree. af100 body is nice, packed with almost all of the important features, like peaking, wave form, vectoscope, etc. i like it very much.

i know i am a shitty shooter shooting shitty scenes over and over again. because all are shits, so this shitty factor is eliminated. now, a shit lover likes a specific shit out of all these shits. this is interesting. why? lol.

actually, i am a firm 24p converter now. why, suddenly i have 5 more cinema cams at my hands, ipad, mac book air, ipod touch, phone, and my desktop monitor's web cam. oh, my em5 has a 24p i think? although only use it for photo so long. they will blow c300 30p out of water for sure. 24p is good for all the human kind too, because each one has a phone is a cinematographer now. probably more than one billion dps? good for everyone, why not. cheers,

it is interesting to see that one of my recent episodes on youtube got a vote. guess which one? oooooyeh, gp 12 5k 60p, not r1mx 24p, not f5 60p and 24p, not c300 24p, not af100 60p. almost forgot the eol "lol".

nano flash may be a good fit for af100, because both are small. yeh, established dp only talk about latest cameras. as you mentioned, there are hidden gems in the old cams.

If so, you are right.

anyone here think dvx100 at 24p is more cinematic than c300 mk 1 at 29.97p using an L 50mm f1.2 at f1.2, or c100 mkii at 59.97 using a ZE 85 f1.4 at f1.4? i doubt so. if so, i think i should shut up on this 24p topic.

i extensively use 650d/700d ml raw crop mode now crop mood 1920x1080p 1x1 24p 16 by 9 14 bit color depth 14 bit lg92 lossless compression for events, news, landscape, street/city scape. since i am in the event, i know the situation, and i watch the footage later, i really don't see the larger than life effects. the ml raw footage itself is amazing for its image quality, especially in the color department. but it is still a small sensor, about 50 mm2 in this mode. on the other hand, 5d3 ml raw in 3.5k mode and in 5.7k mode and in uhd mode, aspect ratio 2.4, 24p, with a large aperture lens at f1.4 to f2, rack focus if you can, then it is much more cinematic. i think large sensor size, lens at f1.4, aspect ratio 2.4, rack focusing, etc, have much stronger effects than 24p itself.

external recorder puts another consideration for sure. my f5 can do 4k xavc 480 up to 30p, nut up to 60p it is xavc 300. for quad sdi out, f5 can do prores 422 hq 4k 60p 1920 mbps to inferno. so i always do 60p with inferno, 24p internal. so yeh, external recorder affects frame rate, for me.

thx. mine is an a version, can do 60p. sdi out 8 bit wrapped in 10 bit, according to berry green. af100 olpf is optimized for low alias and moire, so low res as a cause. but you are right, it has its mojo. probably using it for beauty shot is to best use it, like wedding, etc.

nice cage.

Anyways, it is fun to have this kind of online debate. No need to be personal. Just have fun debating or watching. LOL.

And we can deduct more, if 23-25p is so similar, there is 3p difference within this range, then another 3p up is 29p, basically 29.97 or 30p, why is 29.97p or 30p is so different from 23-25p, just like two totally different worlds? There are no data supporting this kind of mandatory categorization. As I mentioned earlier, 30p was associated with small sensor eng cameras and was looked down by S35 cinema world. Nowadays, S35 and Vista Vision sensor cameras are so accessible, 30p vs 24p vs 60p on large sensor cameras is just a matter of changing some menu options. The so called 24p aesthetics came from the large s35 sensor film cameras era just cannot hold in the current digital cinema time. It is just like Alexa was hailed as the holy grail of digital cinema. Although F35 may trench Alexa with its ccd striped sensor, the whole cinema world embrace the Alexa as the gold standard. Now, many cameras have dual gain sensors and have similar dr to the first generation of Alexa series, although may not be as good as Alexa 35. For normal scenes, even experienced dps cannot tell which camera is which, when comparing the latest Red and Venice 2 and Alexa. Technology has been developing so fast, many early rules in the last ten years may not hold in the next 10 years. This 24p rule has a longer history, but still may not hold in the future digital world neither.

Elitism has its short comings and so with the populism. Neither is perfect. Both can be abused. Let's use celluloid as an example. Kodak was the number one in film production, followed by Fuji. Kodak invented the digital back, yet could not transit to the digital age, and went bankrupt. Kodak is considered as the elite group of the film age, yet cannot accommodate to the new age due to the incoming new technology platform. Kodak's arrogance based on its leading role in film making caused its blindness to the new digital age. On the other hand, populism may kill the innovation. For example, The Hobbit's DP had to give up his exploration on hfr to please movie critics to improve his movies' ticket box profit. From his stand point, he gave up his higher understanding to lower crowd because the lower crowd has the power to influence the even lower uneducated to not buy the ticket to watch hobbit in theater. Pure artists maintain their own original ideas normally will have poor and broken lives.