Lossless Blackmagic Cinema DNG 2.5k workflow for Adobe Premiere CS5.5 with smooth playback and editing

[Andrew Reid]

http://vimeo.com/48085024

IMPORTANT: On the Vimeo page for this clip, click download to get the 2.5K 80Mbit clip. Don't bother watching it full screen from the stream, it is a pale imitation of the full 2.5k file.

I've been experimenting today with Blackmagic Cinema Camera workflows.

I use Adobe Premiere as my main NLE. I am not an FX guy so rarely use After Effects. But it comes in very handy here.

Premiere cannot yet edit the CinemaDNG files natively, performance is very limited, it interprets the footage at 1fps, requiring you to fix this for every clip and image quality suffers greatly, possibly because it doesn't allow you to edit in glorious 12bit.

Here's the solution that's working best for me...

[JHines]

RIP shallow depth of field.

[Shian Storm]

Have you done a comparison between grading the and exporting the proxies compared to the raw?

I'll be doing some tests with both ProRes444 proxies and RAW DNG with heavy grading to see how well they hold up. They should be fine, but I just want to see if there's any breakdown.

[cameraboy]

better to say RIP extreme shallow DOF ...
always used as a crutch by bad and lazy DPs ...

[Xiong]

[quote name='cameraboy' timestamp='1345745274' post='16299']
better to say RIP extreme shallow DOF ...
always used as a crutch by bad and lazy DPs ...
[/quote]
Totally agree, it was also used to hide moire, but now we wont have to :D
Having a shallow depth of view should only be used when the shot/composition needs it, excessive use can reveal the amateur within the DP.

[Sebastian Leitner]

[quote name='Xiong' timestamp='1345745557' post='16300']
Totally agree, it was also used to hide moire, but now we wont have to :D
Having a shallow depth of view should only be used when the shot/composition needs it, excessive use can reveal the amateur within the DP.
[/quote]

i absolutely second that. big hollywood movies are all rather flat, nothing has the style of a 5D - why? because it's fricking impossible to pull focus. there are even contracts for pullers that state nothing smaller than f5.6 is used!

but to contribute to the topic: PROXIES also work well for davinci, color and smoke! smae trick, same results. also, for windows there is that: [url="http://eyepatchfilms.com/?p=903"]http://eyepatchfilms.com/?p=903[/url]

i thinks it's amazing to have that possibility but it's still a rather big pain in the ass...aren't we just happy to get over the h264-transform workaround? i wouldn't care about RAW much i think. but having it is still great...even if it's bigger than anything before...forget a SSD-only macbook.

[Remsy_Atassi]

Here's a question...

When I try to import the files into AE it prompts me to use Camera Raw for every single frame. There has got to be a better way to apply those settings to an entire folder or sequence, right? The Brawley clips come out as Folders for each shot containing the individual frames inside.

This has also presented a challenge when I work on these clips in Resolve, because the naming convention makes Proxies very tough to create.

Can you explain your import workflow in a bit more detail? Really want to play around with these in Premiere but it has me stumped.

[Tzedekh]

I'd like to see a compressed-raw option (i.e., in [i]addition to[/i] CinemaDNG), like CineForm RAW or Dirac. According to GoPro's CTO, David Newman, encoding CineForm RAW requires less processing power than ProRes. Whether the BMC has an FPGA and, if so, it can be programmed to encode CineForm RAW is another matter. It's a mature codec and would offer virtually all the benefits of uncompressed raw but be less data intensive.

[JHines]

RIP wide angle with faster aperture than 2.8.

[Junius]

JHines - how'd you get past the Canon and RED troll-detector?

Tokina 11mm 2.8 or Sigma 10mm 3.5 are plenty wide - shooting wider than 25mm on Super35 is considered pretty trivial and only something that is done for an artistic effect. Most films are shot between 25mm - 35mm.

As for aperture, most films are shot between F4 - F5.6.

Now please take the negativity back to REDUSER - they love negativity a whole lot there. You'll fit right in.

[Remsy_Atassi]

[quote name='JHines' timestamp='1345749750' post='16308']
RIP wide angle with faster aperture than 2.8.
[/quote]

lol it's been done to death. it's not like anyone is forcing you to use the camera. unless you are shooting a dystopian scifi feature where everyone is supposed to look kinda like an alien I don't think it matters.

[Andrew Reid]

When you consider how films are actually shot, extreme shallow depth of field and fast wide angle are gimmicks. I actually am starting to find too much bokeh distracting. It was nice to have when the 5D Mark II came out 3 years ago. We've moved on.

Besides the sensor in the Blackmagic is hardly what you'd call small chip.

[Ernesto Mantaras]

[quote name='JHines' timestamp='1345749750' post='16308']
RIP wide angle with faster aperture than 2.8.
[/quote]

SLR Magic 12mm f1.6 isn't natively supported right now, but adapters will find their way, and I think you'll be fine. Don't worry.

[Shian Storm]

So when creating ProRes444 proxies there is virtually no loss of quality or flexibility, as you can see here. This was rendered from the proxy in AE, and I bent the shit out of this image and gave it a massively oversaturated, bleach bypass "Domino" look (In honor of the departed Tony Scott) and it holds up beautifully. (I had to zoom in 400% to see a infinitesimal amount of pixel blur vs. the DNG). So a proxy based workflow is a definite, and viable option.

[url="https://vimeo.com/48098229"]http://www.vimeo.com/48098229[/url]

[HurtinMinorKey]

[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1345750824' post='16313']
Besides the sensor in the Blackmagic is hardly what you'd call small chip.
[/quote]

Comparing active areas for the video crop it's about 20% smaller than the gh2.

But i agree that shallow DOF was a gimmic, and the most recent BMC footage is impressive.

[JHines]

I'll drink the BMC Koolaid when the sensor size isn't blown out of the water by most modern video cameras. It simply isn't a camera for low light wide angle work. Raw is amazing to edit with and there is no doubting that. I'm glad the progress this camera has forced on the industry, but a more all around camera with my current set of lenses that I've invested thousands of dollars in is what I'm waiting for.

I'm sure the success of this camera will lead to bigger sensors in the future and I'm looking forward to it, but for now, locked off telephoto, closeup, well lit work with manageable DOF will be what this camera is all about.


[quote name='charlie_orozco' timestamp='1345751069' post='16314']
SLR Magic 12mm f1.6 isn't natively supported right now, but adapters will find their way, and I think you'll be fine. Don't worry.
[/quote]

Little bit worried... SLR Magic lenses aren't know for their superior optics.

[Remsy_Atassi]

Most modern video cameras (the non cinema type) have a 1/3-2/3 inch chip which is smaller than the bmc. Not that it actually matters at all because you are trolling, but just wanted to throw that out there.

[JHines]

[quote name='Remsy_Atassi' timestamp='1345752891' post='16320']
Most modern video cameras (the non cinema type) have a 1/3-2/3 inch chip which is smaller than the bmc. Not that it actually matters at all because you are trolling, but just wanted to throw that out there.
[/quote]

Modern "Cinema" cameras. Having a different opinion isn't trolling Remsy_Atassi.

[Shawn_Lights]

[quote name='Remsy_Atassi' timestamp='1345747900' post='16305']
Here's a question...

When I try to import the files into AE it prompts me to use Camera Raw for every single frame. There has got to be a better way to apply those settings to an entire folder or sequence, right? The Brawley clips come out as Folders for each shot containing the individual frames inside.

This has also presented a challenge when I work on these clips in Resolve, because the naming convention makes Proxies very tough to create.

Can you explain your import workflow in a bit more detail? Really want to play around with these in Premiere but it has me stumped.
[/quote]

Most likely you highlighted each frame to import. I did that the first time. You only have to import the first frame in the folder. AE will look for all the similar named frames in order and make it a sequence/shot.

[Shian Storm]

[img]http://www.eoshd.com/comments/uploads/inline/20670/503695e4cb254_ScreenShot20120823at14142PM.png[/img]

choose one image and make sure these boxes are checked, this will import all the frames as a clip.