Lossless Blackmagic Cinema DNG 2.5k workflow for Adobe Premiere CS5.5 with smooth playback and editing

[see ya]

[quote name='Shian Storm' timestamp='1345754629' post='16324']
[img]http://www.eoshd.com/comments/uploads/inline/20670/503695e4cb254_ScreenShot20120823at14142PM.png[/img]

choose one image and make sure these boxes are checked, this will import all the frames as a clip.
[/quote]

Anybody who needs an alternative or possibly better solution to Adobe Camera raw, i'm not sure of the output ACR gives, then maybe this will be of interest, using dcraw, probably the best raw tool available, it's possible to batch convert, (yes an intermediate step) to linear space 16bit tiffs with no white balance or color space restrictions applied by the raw 'development' process.

http://www.guillermoluijk.com/tutorial/dcraw/index_en.htm

[Bruno]

[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1345782408' post='16365']
Really, how many people bought a 5D or 7D for video?

We're not just talking indie filmmakers here Bruno.

- Students
- Consumers
- Hobbyists
- Small studios
- Indie filmmakers
- Freelance journalists
- Corporate filmmakers
- Music video directors
- Hollywood filmmakers
- Even Philip Bloom

[/quote]


Yeah, but you're listing everyone that bought a Canon, what's the point?
More than half of those people wouldn't know what to do with a professional camera and would return it before they even figure out what a raw workflow is. That's not what they want or need either.
Those same people probably have no issue with their Canons, in fact a lot of them are just gear lovers and will buy every new model they put out, even if they'll never use any of the new features, you know damn well how many sightseeing tourists who know nothing about filmmaking have better gear than we do. Also, most of the people you mentioned bought these cameras mainly as stills cameras.
Don't underestimate the numbers of tourists, people who just had babies, gear enthusiasts and especially plain stills photographers, because they can easily outnumber us by a very large margin, and no matter how cool and better for us the BMC may be, it is not what they will be buying.

So no, I don't think it will have a huge direct impact on Canon.

If Panasonic and Sony step up their games then yes, you may expect a reaction from Canon, but not from BMD, not at this point.

[Andrew Reid]

I'm not just listing everyone who bought a Canon at all, in each of those groups there are very knowledgable customers who want the best most sophisticated video tool they can get their hands on, for an important project which will make them money or pass them a university course.

You don't get it I'm afraid. Just like Canon's management, who have underestimated a lot of their customers.

[nickname]

working with red raw i usually used this workflow:

preliminary grade in red cine - maybe ae for bmcc
export prores proxies with grade from red rushes - maybe ae for bmcc
edit prores rushes in nle of choice
export edl
import edl in resolve (i guess, haven´t touched reslove yet) (xml to color for red)
reconnect to dng files
actual grade

it can get annoying when you get a lot of changes in the edit after grading, going back and forth from nle to grading tool, but it´s also usually unpractical to edit on the full resolution full quality files.

grading in photoshop doesn´t seem practical to me since you need to see the clips in context, be able to store stills, compare, have power windows, secondarys, etc.

[Claude Lee]

Hi guys,
May I ask you something? I'm teaching myself how to use Resolve and I was wondering what was the best/fastest workflow to export a Premiere CS6 edit in Resolve, grade and send back in Pre?
Thanks!

[Remsy_Atassi]

Here is my one light through AE to premiere as a log type look. It was very processor intensive and not really recommended so I don't quite think this is a suitable workflow, though it is definitely lossless.

https://vimeo.com/48101730

I think roundtripping through resolve is going to be the way we want to do this, but the shots John provided don't really offer a good naming convention. Since these are broken into individual shots, the name that resolve automatically assigns is "framex-x" while the source is in bins labeled by shot.

There has to be a better way to this. I'm also not sure how to sync back with an XML in resolve. If anyone has any insight it would be appreciated, but maybe we just need to see how the camera actually labels the metadata.

[Bruno]

[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1345816113' post='16405']
I'm not just listing everyone who bought a Canon at all, in each of those groups there are very knowledgable customers who want the best most sophisticated video tool they can get their hands on, for an important project which will make them money or pass them a university course.
[/quote]

Of course there are, thousands of them, but they sell millions of cameras! We are a minority.

If you were saying the BMC will be a problem to Canon's cinema EOS cameras (C300 and 1DC) than I'd agree with you, but not their DSLRs.
Try to find out how many 7D/5D cameras alone Canon has sold so far... if BMD manages to sell even 10% of that it will mean it's a huge success, far beyond their own expectations.

[Andrew Reid]

We are not a minority!

[Andrew Reid]

[quote name='Bruno' timestamp='1345841366' post='16437']Try to find out how many 7D/5D cameras alone Canon has sold so far... if BMD manages to sell even 10% of that it will mean it's a huge success, far beyond their own expectations.[/quote]

Ask yourselves how many new product lines Canon have felt the need to start from scratch. SLRs, office machines, consumer inkjets, compacts, DSLRs.... and Cinema EOS.

Hardly a niche.

The broadcast and filmmaking industry is huge. I can rent a C300 down the street. Not to mention that there is more margin in the high end stuff.

The DSLRs will continue to sell well as stills cameras. Their video appeal is now dead.

The video appeal gave Canon that sixth business division.

Well done Canon.

Anyway, you are dragging this a bit off topic now.

[Bruno]

[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1345843370' post='16440']
Hardly a niche.
The broadcast and filmmaking industry is huge. I can rent a C300 down the street. Not to mention that there is more margin in the high end stuff.
[/quote]

"Broadcasting and filmmaking" industry is not the same as the DSLR video shooters. Yes, they might have bought a bunch of them to shoot B roll and place in boxes when shooting explosions, cars, etc, but those guys also have REDs, Alexas, and now C300s to spare.

We're not the same as them.

[Andrew Reid]

I'm talking in the broad sense and you are talking in the very narrow sense (i.e. Hollywood).

I'm tired of the back and forth, please get back on topic.

A guy walked into my local camera shop in Manchester once and bought a DSLR for his small production company, is he not part of the filmmaking industry as well?

[HurtinMinorKey]

[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1345845589' post='16443']
A guy walked into my local camera shop in Manchester once and bought a DSLR for his small production company, is he not part of the filmmaking industry as well?
[/quote]

Only if he has a ASC or ICG card!!!!!!! :P

Back on topic. Has anyone tried to import the files into GIMP?

[Bruno]

Should I answer that or get back on topic? :)

[Andrew Reid]

Talk about what you like, as long as it isn't bullshit I don't mind :)

[jambredz]

while this process is cool...I don't see it as being very practical without a way to batch convert .5 shots is fine but a whole project...not.

[AVID EDITOROME]

I GUESS THAT AN ADAPTOR FOR SUPER 16 MM LENSES TO EF MOUNT OR MICRO 4/3 TO EF MOUNT WOULD GIVE A LOT OF OPTIONS FOR COVERING THE SENSOR AND HAVING FAST APERTURE

[John Brawley]

[quote name='AVID EDITOROME' timestamp='1346101684' post='16649']
I GUESS THAT AN ADAPTOR FOR SUPER 16 MM LENSES TO EF MOUNT OR MICRO 4/3 TO EF MOUNT WOULD GIVE A LOT OF OPTIONS FOR COVERING THE SENSOR AND HAVING FAST APERTURE
[/quote]

Except Super 16 Lesnes don't project a large enough image circle to cover the BMCC sensor...which is LARGER than super 16.

jb

[Andrew Reid]

Most PL mount S16 lenses won't fit the Canon mount anyway. Perhaps Illya at Hot Rod Cameras can provide an extensive mount mod in future though. Then, some S16 lenses will likely cover the sensor but some will vignette because like as John correctly says above the sensor is larger.

[img]http://www.eoshd.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/blackmagic-cinema-camera-sensor-size-660x462.jpg[/img]

I have tried a lot of S16 lenses on the GH2 (which is larger again). The primes like 25,50,75mm don't vignette. The wide angle stuff (10,12,20mm, etc.) vignette wildly as do the zooms. This is a shame as there is a beautiful Zeiss Distagon S16 lens on eBay right now for £500 which is 8mm T2.1.

I think on the next BMD camera the sensor should run in three modes:

Standard 16:9 as now
Anamorphic 4:3
Super 16mm crop mode

And the mount should be interchangeable. A custom bayonet with 18mm flange to get that EF tube out of the equation then official adapters provided by Blackmagic for EF, Nikon F, PL, c-mount and Micro Four Thirds. rather than relying only on Hong Kong ones. Alternatively if the M43rd's mount can be licensed from Panasonic even better. To have electrical contacts to use lenses like the 12-35mm F2.8, Olympus 12mm F2 would be ideal. Non-electrical and you can still adapter every other mount and use Micro Four Thirds lenses such as the Voigtlander Nokton 25mm F0.95 and 17.5mm F0.95. I also want to use Leica M mount lenses, but until then you can use Leica R lenses with the EF mount no problem.

I know Blackmagic got some flack for their use of the EOS mount but it certainly makes a good starting point. There are a LOT of people out there with big investments in L glass for instance, and they will be happy to be able to use them with full aperture support on the Blackmagic. One question I have until I get my camera - does IS work too?

[cpc]

There are some tests on BMCuser that indicate (at least some) s16 lenses may actually work pretty well in terms of coverage.
Problems with wide mount side lens diameter may prevent mounting though.

[Andrew Reid]

[quote name='cpc' timestamp='1346156462' post='16704']
There are some tests on BMCuser that indicate (at least some) s16 lenses may actually work pretty well in terms of coverage.
Problems with wide mount side lens diameter may prevent mounting though.
[/quote]

Yes this is indeed the main issue. I have an OCT19 mount adapter for Canon, this is also a positive lock mount, basically a Russian copy of PL. The rear of the lens hits the mount because it is too shallow and not wide enough. Out of 10 lenses I only have 2 that physically fit, and one of those doesn't focus to infinity because the rear of the lens moves back further the closer you get to infinity. The register distance of PL is actually very long but the rear element of the lens sits at a very variable distance depending on the lens, zero standardisation in the Soviet days.