More professional Panasonic GH3 with 80Mbit codec and preview of coming attractions

[Andrew Reid]

[img]http://www.eoshd.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Rewo-gh2-cage-on-set.jpg[/img]

Photokina is less than a month away now and it is going to be a busy time. I will be there to get my hands on the new cameras, and I don't think I can remember a month like this with such exciting products being released.

Sony's full frame camcorder the VG-900 will have a mirrorless mount, all in a video camera form factor for £2.5k and now we have a Blackmagic Cinema Camera that shoots amazing 12bit raw for the same price. These were mythical cameras only 6 months ago. Raw video for $3000? Full frame video camera with E-mount?

Then we come to the GH3.

[Chrad]

GH3 sounds amazing. BMC as A cam and GH3 for very low light, shallow DOF normal shots (with the Voigtlaenders), ultra wide, Steadicam and overcranking could be the 16mm dream team.

[Andrew Reid]

Spoilt for choice!

[xenogears]

I have great expectations and big doubts too about the VG-900, how a camera with better sensor could be cheaper than the Nex EA50 with a ASPC sensor and a $4500 price tag, hope for not to be a consumer product.

The VG-900 need at least manual audio with 1/4" jack audio inputs as the BMC (Better if is XLR), clean and uncompressed 4:2:2 HDMI output, Picture profiles and even better with curves as the Olympus OM-D, buttons please not just touch menu operations.

Photokina will bring great news for the independent filmmaker.

[Jaime Valles]

It would be amazing if the GH3 has an 80Mbit Intra-frame codec. If not, then at least I hope it has clean, recordable 4:2:2 24p out the HDMI port to use with an external recorder. If it can do either of those things, then I'm ditching my GH2 in a heartbeat. Hopefully it has 1080p at 60p as well.

[vincegortho]

So the GH3 is staying micro 4/3 sensor size then?
I ask because, so many people gave panasonic grief about it's small sensor size.

Sad that the sony a99 is alpha mount. Is there anyway I can connect my canon glass to it?
And what are the downsides of doing so?

[KahL]

Sony's DSLR being an Alpha mount does kind of suck. Rather stick to the Nex N body w/ E-mount.
As far as the GH3 is concerned, the codec upgrades are great. But if it still has that video-y look and limited DR, it's nearly the same as the GH2 hacked, really.

[Axel]

[quote name='vincegortho' timestamp='1345918601' post='16474']
So the GH3 is staying micro 4/3 sensor size then?
I ask because, so many people gave panasonic grief about it's small sensor size.[/quote]

Because extreme shallow dof was fashionable. I hope that MFT will survive, because it is a very smart compromise:

• the sensor size allows for lens resolutions as close as they can get to be covered by actual pixels for HD video without line-skipping. Bigger sensors don't.
• practically all bigger mounts can be adapted, but not vice versa.
• the mechanics of DSLRs with their clumsy, loud shutter mirror, perishing fast, will soon be realized as hoary relic. EVF and LCDs are getting brighter and sharper with every generation, and they show >focus, >exposure [i]and[/i] >color temperature (which mirrors can't). If you replace the shutter, the camera can be much, much smaller and lighter, provided that the lenses as well are small and light.
• the fastest lenses for full frame may be f1.2. If they are good, they are very expensive. The famous Noktons are with f.95 one full stop faster. They compensate fully for the 2:1 crop ratio ...
• ... if [i]extreme[/i] shallow dof is desirable any longer in the first place. You see it everywhere, I feel it starts getting old.
• The BMCC has an even bigger crop. Who knows? Perhaps MFT also will be adapted to the Blackmagic.

[HurtinMinorKey]

Is 80Mbit good enough for an intra-frame codec? It didn't work for the Canon 5D3. But maybe they can do a better job of onboard processing.

[nahua]

4 years on and finally we get the tools we wanted. I'm glad that a lot of companies saw the potential that Canon did not. Even though Sony is Sony, they sure are coming out with some real winners. This will be the best Photokina yet!! Can't wait!!

[PAVP]

People seem to always get it confused that higher bit rate is the only determinant of the final video quality, but they are not realizing the importance of the Codec and the processing that goes into the final product. Case in point is that Sony FS100 at 28mbit is far different from a Sony Handycam at the same bit rate. Just like the original Canon Codec and processor in the 5Dmk2 was a limiting factor in final quality despite a higher bit rate than a stock GH2.

A GH3 with an 80mbit bit rate could be great depending upon the codec and strength of the in camera processing. We don't know if they have made improvements in their processing but I would guess they probably have. I think Panasonic has a better understanding of how big the market is for Video DSLM cameras is, than when they 1st made the GH1. There are a lot of sales to be made in this segment. I know that I myself would buy several GH3's if they are as good as many of us hope.

[XXX]

Hmm compared to what we already know about Sony, the BMC or even Fuji it´s suspiciously silent on the Panasonic front...
I hope we really all hold our breaths, once the NDAs end...

[Tzedekh]

If Sony were smart, they'd drop the VG-900's MSRP to about $1,500 and spend the extra $1.95 to add clean 10-bit 24p 4:2:2 HDMI out. This would be sweet with a Hyperdeck Shuttle 2.

[KarimNassar]

can't wait!!

[Simco123]

Actually Sony is too late with the VG900. Sure it is potentially the best video using a dSLR sensor for under £2.5k and probably arrive in stores early next year. Why? It is because RAW capable video camera already can be had for under £2.5k even though the sensor is small such as the BMC by next year we may well see S35 version for around £3k-£4k be it from BMD or another manufacturer.
Canon was'nt smart with their $15k FF EOS cinema standard dSLR and as a great believer of "you pay for what you get" I doubt the VG900 will come anywhere close in video quality. The VG900 will only be a modest improvement over the 5DIII and as a dedicated camcorder for the price even with FF sensor it will have a hard time challenging BMC and Digital Bolex and may prove a disaster for Sony.

[Chrad]

[color=#222222][font=Helvetica Neue', Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][size=4][background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]I'm curious as to why so many people think that an affordable larger sensor RAW camera from BMD or anyone else is just around the corner.
The BMCC seemed at NAB to be an incredibly disruptive and innovative product. It took BMD a lot longer than they initially anticipated to get the product out the door. Then there's the super 35 sensor Kineraw, which has some of the same limitations as the BMCC (like no overcranking at full resolution, though it does support up to 720p60) but costs twice the price.
So why do people talk like it's easy to crank one of these things out and the sub $3K RAW camera we've all been waiting for will be out in a matter of months? Sony and Canon have not shown themselves to be nearly that nimble, and I think it will be a number of years before Blackmagic can put out another camera. [/background][/size][/font][/color]
[font=Helvetica Neue]I'm sure in a few years there'll be a great super 35 RAW camera at an accessible price point, with all the features we've been asking for like higher frame rates, but there comes a point where one has to stop waiting and make the most of what's available now. With the inclusion of DaVinci Resolve and Ultrascopes, I think the BMC offers a value proposition that we won't see bettered for a good while to come.[/font]

[Axel]

[quote name='Chrad' timestamp='1345987766' post='16502'][font=Helvetica Neue]I'm sure in a few years there'll be a great super 35 RAW camera at an accessible price point, with all the features we've been asking for like higher frame rates, but there comes a point where one has to stop waiting and make the most of what's available now.[/font][/quote]

Yep!
Reminds me of a song by Joe Jackson (not Jackos Darth Vader father), [i]The Verdict: [/i]'It's not easy, but we [i]have[/i] to try or else our world becomes a waiting room.'

[quote name='Axel' timestamp='1345926632' post='16477']• the fastest lenses for full frame may be f1.2. If they are good, they are very expensive. The famous Noktons are with f.95 one full stop faster. They compensate fully for the 2:1 crop ratio ...[/quote]

I erred. You heard, that the crop factor of MFT to full frame is 2. The space, however, quadruples:

[url="http://ninofilm.net/blog/wp-content/sensor-size-1.jpg"][img]http://ninofilm.net/blog/wp-content/sensor-size-1.jpg[/img][/url]

The same as with 2k compared to 4k (which is four times the resolution). I think the field of the MFT camera would be four times as deep (at the same f-stop), or am I mistaken again?

[Simco123]

[quote name='Chrad' timestamp='1345987766' post='16502']
[color=#222222][font=Helvetica Neue', Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][size=4][background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]I'm curious as to why so many people think that an affordable larger sensor RAW camera from BMD or anyone else is just around the corner.
The BMCC seemed at NAB to be an incredibly disruptive and innovative product. It took BMD a lot longer than they initially anticipated to get the product out the door. Then there's the super 35 sensor Kineraw, which has some of the same limitations as the BMCC (like no overcranking at full resolution, though it does support up to 720p60) but costs twice the price.
So why do people talk like it's easy to crank one of these things out and the sub $3K RAW camera we've all been waiting for will be out in a matter of months? Sony and Canon have not shown themselves to be nearly that nimble, and I think it will be a number of years before Blackmagic can put out another camera. [/background][/size][/font][/color]
[font=Helvetica Neue]I'm sure in a few years there'll be a great super 35 RAW camera at an accessible price point, with all the features we've been asking for like higher frame rates, but there comes a point where one has to stop waiting and make the most of what's available now. With the inclusion of DaVinci Resolve and Ultrascopes, I think the BMC offers a value proposition that we won't see bettered for a good while to come.[/font]
[/quote]

Well BMC havent ruled out 60fps in future firmware updates the only issue is overheating but a short spurt can be done without overheating if they really want to give it.
You can do over cranking in software
[url="http://vimeo.com/48099151#at=0"]http://vimeo.com/48099151#at=0[/url]

[Julian]

[quote name='Simco123' timestamp='1345976344' post='16498']
Actually Sony is too late with the VG900. Sure it is potentially the best video using a dSLR sensor for under £2.5k and probably arrive in stores early next year. Why? It is because RAW capable video camera already can be had for under £2.5k even though the sensor is small such as the BMC by next year we may well see S35 version for around £3k-£4k be it from BMD or another manufacturer.
Canon was'nt smart with their $15k FF EOS cinema standard dSLR and as a great believer of "you pay for what you get" I doubt the VG900 will come anywhere close in video quality. The VG900 will only be a modest improvement over the 5DIII and as a dedicated camcorder for the price even with FF sensor it will have a hard time challenging BMC and Digital Bolex and may prove a disaster for Sony.
[/quote]
The VG900 sounds more like a high end consumercam. Like the earlier VG's. I myself for example am interested in such a camera. I'm not interested in RAW (yet), because that means buying a new computer, a huge amount of hard disks to store everything and ssd's etc.

I think the market for video enthusiasts is pretty big. Probably bigger than the professional market that really wants RAW.

[Jaime Valles]

[quote name='Chrad' timestamp='1345987766' post='16502'][font=Helvetica Neue', Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]It took BMD a lot longer than they initially anticipated to get the product out the door.[/font][/quote]

It's only been 4 weeks since the original release date they announced. I wouldn't call that "a lot longer" than they anticipated.

That said, I agree with you that it'll probably be at least a year before they release an APS-C or S35 camera. Before they do that, they'll likely release another identical camera to the one they have now, but with a m4/3 mount.