Canon launch $8000 Cinema EOS C100

[ssrdd]

4-2-0 24Mbit???????

another fail from canon.

sony A99 will kill this product like anything..

[ssrdd]

[quote name='HurtinMinorKey' timestamp='1346256993' post='16846']
c 500:

[url="http://www.canon.com.au/About-Canon/News-Events/News-Press-Releases/Canon-launches-Cinema-EOS-System-flagship-camera?cid=%20scfb120860"]http://www.canon.com...cid= scfb120860[/url]

60fps 4K 10bit raw
[/quote]

With an external recorder, it doesnt sound any great.

[vincegortho]

I apologize for old questions.
If I don't want to shoot RAW DNG on the black magic. Will ProRes 422 files be compatible with Premier and after effects CS5.5?

[chulx1001]

To me it's not quite hard to understand why C100 exists, but for C500, i have to wonder: why on earth would you spend $30000 on a Canon video cam that shoots 4k with an external recorder, rather than buying a $8000 Sony FS700 that does the same thing, plus Sony has proved to build awesome sensors and FS700 is measured for 14 stops of dynamic range.

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/aadams/story/cameras_sony_fs700_dynamic_range_presentation/

[Peter J. DeCrescenzo]

[quote name='vincegortho' timestamp='1346306987' post='16919']
I apologize for old questions.
If I don't want to shoot RAW DNG on the black magic. Will ProRes 422 files be compatible with Premier and after effects CS5.5?
[/quote]

Adobe video software has supported ProRes (various levels of the codec) on Mac & Windows for years. I suspect the older version of CS that you have probably does, too. But you should double-check with Adobe to be sure, and to see if a software update or driver is required.

[galenb]

According to that features page, it has 12 stops of dynamic range:
[quote]Users will appreciate the new camera's 12 stops of dynamic range at all ISO speed settings from 320 to 20,000.[/quote]

[jgharding]

If you're shooting on a corporate gig though, C100 with easy to use compact form factor and little files that look good enough will be perfect. It's just easier than spending money and time building a massive rig to get RAW capture, which makes workflow into a pig and the client probably won't notice anyway.

If I were making a short or a feature or a series I'd be quite tempted to BMD, but for a huge amount of those making a reguolar living out of video this C100 is gonna be a very attractive product. They're just made for different markets.

I still hate 24mnbps AVC though :rolleyes:

[richg101]

[quote name='jgharding' timestamp='1346320047' post='16937']
If you're shooting on a corporate gig though, C100 with easy to use compact form factor and little files that look good enough will be perfect. It's just easier than spending money and time building a massive rig to get RAW capture, which makes workflow into a pig and the client probably won't notice anyway.

If I were making a short or a feature or a series I'd be quite tempted to BMD, but for a huge amount of those making a reguolar living out of video this C100 is gonna be a very attractive product. They're just made for different markets.

I still hate 24mnbps AVC though :rolleyes:
[/quote]

I agree. This will be seen handheld a lot more than the fs100/700. We'll see it being used by high profile music event doc work alongside c300 no doubt. the 24mbps will be fine if the way it is implemented is done well. as it is with the fs100

[ssrdd]

[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1346248377' post='16817']
I hear you. It is a lot of money for me too, I don't need an FS100 AND a C100, AND a GH3, AND a BMD. It is getting silly. The investment is better off on the screen. Although the C100 is getting much warmer for me, and has addressed a heap of concerns I had about Canon recently, I cannot see myself selling my FS100 for it purely because of the lens mount and the fact I can use the Blackmagic for optimal resolution and workflow in good light. FS100 is my low light tool and for when S35 sensor size is important. BMD for when dynamic range, skin tones, resolution is key. C100 would be nicer than both to handle, and a lovely cam for sure but it cannot replace either of them until it has a universal mount and raw codec. That is asking a lot. FS100 and BMD both have better unique selling points for me personally.

I know the majority might be better off with a C100 for commercial work though. It is going to FLY off the shelves because it is well priced and very practical.

Not quite exciting enough in the specs department though. No 240fps, no raw, no 12bit colour, no full frame. Sony and Blackmagic have all that covered under $8k.
[/quote]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]it is well priced and very practical?????????!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF[/font][/color]
[font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#282828"]u definitely sound like new.[/color][/font]

[ssrdd]

vincent laforet is f-ing canon representative not to care much about his review.

[jgharding]

My aforementioned hire buddy actually ordered 3 C100s yesterday! I think he foresees a big demand. People often just cost up the shoot quickly and cheaply, and in those cases, sticking on a hundred a day for a C100 which is quick and easy to use is for most DPs or cameramen is gonna be commonplace. At the moment I edit more C300 than anything else in my editing job, the best thing is that the audio is all there and usually sounds OK. I actually groan when I get 5D ii footage and that horrible hissy unsynced H4n audio.

PLEASE, NO MORE HORRIBLE AUDIO!

In fact, I actually asked the producers/directors at that company to ban dual-system audio outright. If someone wants to use a 5D with a Beachtek or similar external that puts audio INSIDE the MOV files that's fine, if they want to use a separate recorder and give me another work stage syncing up their invariably poorly recorded audio, they can get on their bike!

H4n always arrives at my suite clipped or at so low a gain level that the signal to noise ratio is all hiss. I curse the day that people without even learning basic audio knowledge started buying that noisy piece of crap as if it were gold dust. They are pretty poor pieces of kit. I have one (I got it for free) and I still hate it. I also have a DR100 and that gets more use. And it's still noisy!

The Edirol R44 is the cheapest decent audio recorder I've found, though I bet the Roland R26 will be good. After a good decade in professional sound, I know garbage when I hear it, and though the preamps in the H4n are better than those in the DR100, its so noisy you may as well be standing next to a fucking waterfall with anything other than loud, loud sources, which dialogue is not.

End rant. Phew. Glad I got that off my chest.

It's an important point though. If you want to do narrative with the BMD, you should consider audio gear that works to the same level. I have a feeling lots of new film-makers will be shooting RAW DNG files with beautiful dynamic range, but recording audio on cheap Rode Videomics into H4ns at the wrong level of gain, with really poor signal to noise ratio. That's a severe mismatch of quality. I don't think it will marry too well on screen... but I am a bit of a snob with audio :D

It's definitely an area of expertise for me, and something I'd be happy to write about again, now I've had six months away from writing for Sound On Sound I think I'm ready to do it again!

In truth, audio recorders are pretty duff until you get to Sound Devices, and then Nagra above that. But saying "use a Nagra" is a bit like saying "use an Alexa" ;)

[jgharding]

Actually it seems the R26 has the same noise issues as many other budget recorders :S oh well!

[url="http://mixonline.com/gear/reviews/roland_r-26_tascam_dr-40_nagra_sd_portable_handheld_recorders_review/"]http://mixonline.com...corders_review/[/url]

[nigelbb]

[quote name='Germy1979' timestamp='1346263607' post='16859']
Yeah. I'm pretty sure the Kineraw kills it for $6300. Comparable price range and what not, What's funny is, people are buying these Canons up left and right. It's crazy.

C300 $16,000 ....... Scarlet X (raw) $16,000
C500 $30,000 ....... Red One MX $25,000
5Dmk3 $3500 ....... Blackmagic Cinema Cam. $3000
C100 $6-8000? .... Kineraw S35 $6300

I guess it's just loyalty at this point.
[/quote]There are plenty of reasons apart from loyalty e.g. having a worldwide spares & service support organisation is a major consideration for many.

[Goguvarra]

Hello Andrew,

I read in your post about the C100 that " OCT-19 LOMO anamorphic lenses are out for this camera but I can use them on my FS100 for half the price. " I'm not experienced in anamorphic lenses and mounts but what do you mean when you say you can use them for half the price on a FS100 ?

Also are these available to buy from somewhere used ? I haven't had time to check out the anamorphic forum so you could redirect me to some post there.

Thanks,
Mike

[richg101]

just to add in... very few people who hire even an F3 package actually use S-Log. Very few want external recording when making pilots - 90% of what any of us can ever dream of! they are happy with the 35mb/s in cam recording. This will be about half the price of an f3 to hire, and is more user friendly for lower budget film makers. I bet a set of these on a hire list will make lots of money. Canon will lease these out at 0% interest for big orders and the big hire firms will make 10 times the initial outlay in just 1 year.

[XXX]

BTW can anyone point me to some videos putting the C300 in good use?
I know the promo stuff filmed for canon upon release, but maybe a TV show, a documentary or even ENG work with the C300?
I expect the image difference to the C100 to be small, just like with Panasonic P2 cameras and their AVCHD counterparts, recording on SD cards.
Seriously, all this talk of the C100 in comparison to what the C300 offers - but what DOES the C300 offer?
The C300 users probably don´t flood the internet as much as HDSLR users with their footage, maybe that´s why I get the impression, the C300 isn´t that much of a "established reference" in the camera world (yet)...?

@JG Maybe you can show sth (non classified) from your editing job...? Thanks!

[jgharding]

I'm in some loooooong talks about a pilot at the moment (which as some of you will know, means it may or may not happen :S at all) and TBH, we'll probably shoot on the 550D cos we all know it inside out, have two already, own all the lenses and ancillary gear and can turn it around fast.

If anything is moire city we'll just use the RX100 or borrow a different SLR. The maximum delivery for it will be 720p, so EOS resolution will be fine, and not hiring anything will make it cheap as chips so we can spend more on the cast and some extra light and grip gear, which will have much more of an effect on if we get commissioned or not than what we shoot it on. I might hire a better tripod, like a Sachtler DSLR, as they're the tits. I don't like sliders, but I might hire a rolling dolly for the tripod too. Those things will just help more with the actual important part of telling the story than a few more megabits of data or stops of dynamic range.

550Ds when hacked can run up to 100mbps or so in low light, that's pretty good with Canon's H264 codec implementation.

But if I were doing a "vanity project" I'd probably go nuts and use something RAW or that could go into a Ninja, because it'd be more important to get the ultimate look and there's no money men or commissioners to impress with low overheads. I love RAW photography, so I can't wait to try it with video...

[richg101]

The BBC have just made hire acquisition of 20! C300's for use as b cams in the next series of Strictly Come Dancing (god knows why, but this is the most popular show on tv in the UK). The production of this show is very high. a priority for the BBC for sure.

[jgharding]

I'm glad to see the whole "50mbps for broadcast" thing has been circumvented. It was always pretty arbitrary, given that codec implementations are so different. They did sign off the 5D under certain circumstances too if I remember rightly, as they were used for some CBBC shows. It seems likey that this will be a nice AVCHD then, as there is a lot of motion in dancing.

They use a lot of Premiere now too, which is great, Avid makes me want to kick my own nuts off.

[jgharding]

[quote name='XXX' timestamp='1346336854' post='16963']
@JG Maybe you can show sth (non classified) from your editing job...? Thanks!
[/quote]

A lot of it is internal corporate and the like for European companies, so I can't put rushes or final up myself, but I'll ask and see if anything is out there to share freely! I can likely send a viewing link if you PM me, as that won't be public sharing.