The Panasonic GH3 calls to explorers

[Steven Phipps]

[color=#000000][font='Helvetica Neue', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]can anyone give me some advice on whether the 35-100 f2.8 lens and gh3 will be useful for sports photography? similar to a99 70-200 combo or similar efforts from canon and nikon? I see 6fps burst for raw stills is the same but ive read the cd autofocus isnt up to par for lower light autofocus needs like a nighttime high school football game or indoor basketball. also since it is 70-200 equiv does that mean its reach is as far as well? im well versed in video features and love the gh2 for them i just hope i can use gh3 for sports stills as well. otherwise im off to sony for an a99 but i looooove those in cam codecs from panny and the small size of the cam rocks now that it will have a batt pack and weatherproofing.[/size][/font][/color]

[Bruno]

[quote name='Steven Phipps' timestamp='1347644364' post='18017']
[color=#000000][font=Helvetica Neue', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]can anyone give me some advice on whether the 35-100 f2.8 lens and gh3 will be useful for sports photography?[/size][/font][/color]
[/quote]

Maybe when the camera and lens have actually been released... what kind of advice would you expect at this stage? :)

[Steven Phipps]

riiiiiight. i guess i just want someone to tell me "cd af will never work for that" or "it just might work this time"....stay tuned dont jump gun on the sony.

[Andrew Reid]

Contrast detect AF will work for that, but you'd be wise to wait like the rest of us before knowing for sure.

AF on the GH3 will be fastest CD AF ever invented but you're always better doing MF for reliability.

[Max]

I can see two issues

1. All I bitrate is low. Does it will be hacked again?
2. No IBIS which is very important to video. No IS in prime lenses.

[bg2b]

I wouldn't hold your breath for tracking; if you need that, you need phase-detect. For regular single AF in low light, the GH2 is already pretty good; I'd expect a bit more from the GH3, but nothing revolutionary.

[Steven Phipps]

thanks guys. andrew do u think we ll be dealing with shipping delays again like w gh2? or were they strictly earthquake related woes?

[bg2b]

Panasonic is almost certainly never going to add IBIS. If you need it in video, I think the E-M5 is currently the only game in town, both in micro-4/3 and otherwise.

[Andrew Reid]

The GH2 shipping woes weren't Earthquake related, more mundane than that - they allocated more units to Europe and Asia than the US. Mirrorless hasn't gone well in the US. Blame the people who see a BIG camera and think it is BETTER.

Max... How is 72mbit too low for ALL-I? Trust me on that, it isn't low. I did love the OM-D in-body stabilisation. IS is important for some people but I prefer to shoot handheld with a shoulder mounted rig, the results are better than with IS.

[Andrew Reid]

[quote name='Steven Phipps' timestamp='1347646012' post='18025']
thanks guys. andrew do u think we ll be dealing with shipping delays again like w gh2? or were they strictly earthquake related woes?
[/quote]

For reference, related to your earlier question about AF... Contrast detect AF on the GH3 is faster than the Nikon D3's phase detect. The only flaw of CD AF is if you have a very low contrast area of the image which you're trying to lock focus onto, you will get some hunting.

[PAVP]

The closer we get the more excited and intrigued I become. I wish there was a clear indication of whether we'll get 4:2:2 or not. This is the one last thing I've been hoping for. It's something I think that would push this over the top IMO.

I LOVE the fact that they added .MOV. I suppose that's due to the All I recording? In any event this camera looks like it's going to be once again the best Bang for Buc camera for Indie Film etc.

[bwhitz]

[quote name='HurtinMinorKey' timestamp='1347640079' post='18003']
If it is a Sony sensor, then we can kiss the good detail of the gh2 goodbye. I don't think Sony would let the Pany outdo their a99.
[/quote]

Yea, this is kind of scaring me too... maybe the NMOS sensor played some factor in the real 1080p detail the GH2 was giving? If this is the same psuedo-1080p that Sony and Canon are giving... there needs to be a major uprising and a global boycott must take place, in all seriousness.

[Max]

[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1347646956' post='18028']
Max... How is 72mbit too low for ALL-I? Trust me on that, it isn't low. I did love the OM-D in-body stabilisation. IS is important for some people but I prefer to shoot handheld with a shoulder mounted rig, the results are better than with IS.
[/quote]

Its [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]9 Mbyte/sec. So for 60P each frame will be 150Kbyte only. its about 10% quality jpeg compression. Take a photo to photoshop resize it to 2M pixel and save it with 10% quality then you will get [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]150Kbyte image.[/font][/color]

GH3 have 50mbps inter-compression which will have a blue-ray quality. its very good news. However for real motion-still experiences at 60p then [font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#282828"]72mbit its a joke so it will be hacked for sure. If the 50mbps mode will be implemented properly then no need for [/color][/font][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]ALL-I. No point to store the same information for 60 frame again and again.[/font][/color]

[font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#282828"]shoulder mounted rig? Yes you are a pro but many potential buyers are not.[/color][/font]

[Axel]

Did they only invite Philip Bloom? Or could you lay hands on the GH3 as well, but had to sign a non-disclosure-contract? Because I think you deserved most to be involved in this, keeping in mind how many bought a GH2 on your recommendation.

However, I can't wait to read and see what PB and you have to say. Let the review be of the same bluntness as PBs review of the BMCC.

[color=#222222][font='Helvetica Neue', Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][size=4][background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]


[quote name='Max' timestamp='1347648253' post='18035']
Its [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]9 Mbyte/sec. So for 60P each frame will be 150Kbyte only. its about 10% quality jpeg compression. Take a photo to photoshop resize it to 2M pixel and save it with 10% quality then you will get [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]150Kbyte image.[/font][/color][/quote]

These maths don't work with AVC, because a lot more parameters than in good old Jpeg or Mpeg2 are being connected. [/background][/size][/font][/color]

[Max]

[quote name='Axel' timestamp='1347648593' post='18037']

[font=Helvetica Neue', Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][size=4]These maths don't work with AVC, because a lot more parameters than in good old Jpeg or Mpeg2 are being connected. [/size][/font]
[/quote]

[b]Panasonic AVC-Intra 100[/b][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3]:[/size][/font][/color][list]
[*]nominally 100 Mbit/s, [color=#b22222]size of each frame is fixed[/color][color=#006400] (so its 150kbyte per frame@60p)[/color]
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAVLC"]CAVLC[/url] [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_coding"]entropy coding[/url] only.
[*]All formats are High 4:2:2 Intra Profile, Level 4.1
[*][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling#4:2:2"]4:2:2[/url] chrominance sampling
[*]frames are not scaled
[/list]

[Axel]

[quote name='Max' timestamp='1347649608' post='18039']
[b]Panasonic AVC-Intra 100[/b][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3]:[/size][/font][/color]
nominally 100 Mbit/s, [color=#B22222]size of each frame is fixed[/color][color=#006400] (so its 150kbyte per frame@60p)[/color][/quote]

Yes. So much about the file size. It is not comparable to a simple jpeg with the same size. It doesn't mean the same image quality. I don't pretend to understand how the compression works, but I was told not to worry by a friend of mine who is a broadcast engineer. I don't think he is wrong. AVI-Intra is an old method, algorithms have developed since. I suggest we just wait.

In the promotion video there are two things that make me worry though: Is 'HDR' for stills only? And: They show a camera mounted on a car rig. The shots (probably from the GH3?) showing the driver are very short, as if they were cut in a way as not to betray any RS issues. They could have made them longer to show that the sensor now handles these things better.

[Max]

[quote name='Axel' timestamp='1347650428' post='18040']
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]is not comparable to a simple jpeg with the same size.[/font][/color] It doesn't mean the same image quality.
[/quote]
[color=#b22222]True[/color][color=#b22222]![/color] because of [size=3][color=#333333][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Combined Intra-Prediction (CIP) algorithm of the AVC, the efficiency is better then JPEG. The new "AVC-ultra" with 226mbps[/font][/color] [font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif][color=#333333]is [/color][/font][/size][color=#333333][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]not [/size][/font][/color][color=#333333][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3] implemented. [/size][/font][/color]

[size=3][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif][color=#333333]All-I with 72mbps is not intend for 60P. The 50mbps inter-coding should be great.[/color][/font][/size]

[Chrad]

All-I for 24/25p and 50mbps inter-frame for slow mo shots? I can live with that.

[Axel]

BTW: Funny, how such first impressions are shot in similar places:
[img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/57198583/%3F%3F%3F.jpg[/img]From the D600 video.
Better. Not?

[Ernesto Mantaras]

[quote name='Max' timestamp='1347648253' post='18035']
[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828]shoulder mounted rig? Yes you are a pro but many potential buyers are not.[/color][/font]
[/quote]

Then those potential buyers probably won't really need IBIS and specially not 176Mb/s intra frame.

And I would love to have the IBIS option in my certainly future GH3, but let's be fair: no other narrative used camera has that kind of stabilizer anyways, so it's not like we're asking for the norm.