Genesis - is this the Reverie moment for the GH3?

[johnnymossville]

The skintones looked fine to me. Ever ride a subway and look at your fellow passengers?

[Simco123]

[quote name='Bruno' timestamp='1347736284' post='18157']
It's not like you need Resolve and Ultrascope to use the GH3, is it?
You do need it to work with BMCC raw material though.

And if you do need Resolve, there's a free version.
[/quote]

Its not like you need a camera either. Sorry the free version you are alluding to is a demo. If Resolve is not included with the BMC then its is less value for money.

[Simco123]

[quote name='johnnymossville' timestamp='1347737216' post='18158']
The skintones looked fine to me. Ever ride a subway and look at your fellow passengers?
[/quote]

Except that yucky skin tones occur in other places outside the subway too.

[that1guyy]

Yes, what happened to the Birger? The one thing holding me from buying a GH3 is that I don't want to use M43 lenses. I can't use them on any other system and they're hard to resell, not to mention they're too expensive and it's hard to find used ones. Vintage doesn't even exist.

If someone can come out with a reasonably priced adapter which allows me to use my Canon lenses with support for IS, autofocus (for photography), and in body aperture, I will be the first in line. PLEASE do this! Until then, I have my hope on upcoming Canon such as the 70D. If they do something similar to the GH3 in terms of video I'm all for it.

[that1guyy]

[quote name='Simco123' timestamp='1347739198' post='18161']
Its not like you need a camera either. Sorry the free version you are alluding to is a demo. If Resolve is not included with the BMC then its is less value for money.
[/quote]

No, the free version is not a demo. It is a fully functioning software. The only things it can't do is work with RAW footage and it lacks the noise reduction feature.

[QuickHitRecord]

[quote name='theSUBVERSIVEBIRDS' timestamp='1347734379' post='18156']
What I don't get in people nowadays is how they think that everybody has to have the exactly same necessity over things and usually - actually always - think that people has the same necessity as them, like it's not possible to have different needs.[/quote]

I agree.

One thing that no one has mentioned here is that the BMC is the first camera ever made by BlackMagic. The GH3 is coming from an established camera company with several previous models that Panasonic has been able to use as benchmarks and improve upon. As good as it looks, this is the FIRST camera by BlackMagic. The first step can be painful. It's something I think that everyone should take into consideration when it comes time to buy a camera.

For my needs (mostly short films and the occasional corporate shoot when we're short a camera at work), I could make either camera work. I will probably end up buying the GH3 and then possibly the [i]successor[/i] to the BMC MFT because if it is as excellent as it looks, there WILL be a successor.

[Xiong]

Well that didn't take long before people started to bicker. If no one read the post on Philip Bloom's site, he mentions not having all the features working yet and some bugs in the pre-production model and alot of people here are already making up their minds on a highly compressed vimeo short film.

I'm trying to stay more optimistic, we'll not know until we actually see reviews or actual tests, thats when we should make our judgement on whether it fits you shoot style.

[KahL]

[quote name='peederj' timestamp='1347733755' post='18153']
Everything I dislike about the GH2 remains on display. Those people look so green it's as if they are half-lizard. The color science is more like color fraud.

Sorry if I have insulted your baby. But look at the lovely use of color in Reverie in comparison...sure we see the macroblocking and aliasing today, but at least the thing doesn't make me wretch.

Bruce Logan's color work in the Zacuto shootout 3rd episode was stellar. This is the camera, not those professionals.
[/quote]
+1 on this.
Skin tones look like urine. Not a big fan of this output one bit :-(

[Astro]

Skin tones in the beginning also looked totally fine to me, and even if they werent, it takes a second to correct them with the garbage mat and vectorscope in Premiere, besides that human skin has subsurface scattering (reflects and scatters environmental light) so in a subway it would look greensish...if you dont like it...change it in post...gotta be easier than dealing with the size of RAW!

Anyway I personally would buy the GH3 over the BMCC because it fills my needs better...cheaper, not so tied to the Mac, more flexible frame rates, less file size, works with all M43 lenses and a zillion other things.
Plus totally agree with Quickhitrecord...lets see the BMCC when it is the real world, they have not made a single camera yet, this is their first and the fanboyism and predictions of greatness and useabilty etc..are already over the top.
I am happy to let everyone else be the guinea pigs with the BMCC and watch what happens, that said at least Panasonic have made a lot of cameras and that has to count for something.

[b] [/b]

[Andrew Reid]

[quote name='Simco123' timestamp='1347731051' post='18143']I can see some emulation of the 70s Milk Tray ad and similarity of both this and Reverie.[/quote]

!?

[Germy1979]

I really want to see how exactly the "high dynamic range" sensor is working..
Honestly I do not like the skintones on the GH2. I didn't think about it either, but Andrew makes a good point about the sensor for the gh3 actually being DESIGNED for All-I compression, as opposed to a hack... I'm looking forward to learning the difference. There is a new series of patches with a matrix designed to emulate a 4:4:4 space, but honestly after testing them all... I'm convinced that the patches have gone as far as they're gonna go with GH2, and it's reached its max potential. I cannot see any discernible difference between them all. I guess if you're cropping 400% and you're looking for a block in a shadow, then there is good reason. I sit and watch patch tests though, and i want to comment: "sorry guys, but what exactly am i looking for?" but it's Personal View and I don't want to read 17 responses that make me question my self esteem, or worth to society.. The point is, there are hardware limitations that aren't going to go away with a patch. Man they did give the Gh2 a chance though! It truly has been, the best dslr type camera for video on Earth for 2 years.

[QuickHitRecord]

[quote name='Germy1979' timestamp='1347748558' post='18170']I sit and watch patch tests though, and i want to comment: "sorry guys, but what exactly am i looking for?" but it's Personal View and I don't want to read 17 responses that make me question my self esteem, or worth to society..[/quote]

Hilarious. It so easy inadvertently start a flame war over there. There is bound to be some disagreement about the GH3 as we get more information, but I hope that this forum continues to be a constructive place to talk about it.

Speaking of skin tones, I honestly don't have a problem with what I am seeing. I have been hearing this for a while and I have always wondered. They look a little cool to me, but nothing that I can't warm up a bit in post. But maybe I am not looking for the right thing, or maybe my monitor is off calibration. Can someone post a side-by-side of the GH3 skin tones and a grab from camera that does a better job with skin tones? How do we WISH that the GH3 would capture skin tones?

[matt2491]

Well shot Philip!

[moebius22]

[quote name='that1guyy' timestamp='1347743469' post='18163']
Until then, I have my hope on upcoming Canon such as the 70D. If they do something similar to the GH3 in terms of video I'm all for it.
[/quote]

Not going to happen given Canon's recent track record.

[Astro]

I think Canon are obviously not that concerned with Video quality in their DSLR's whereas Panasonic, Olympus, Sony definitely appear to be.
Just the fact that the got Philip Bloom etc...to do a promo video (wether you like the skin tones or not) speaks volumes about them wanting to appeal to indie film makers etc..

[theSUBVERSIVE]

[quote name='that1guyy' timestamp='1347743469' post='18163']
Until then, I have my hope on upcoming Canon such as the 70D. If they do something similar to the GH3 in terms of video I'm all for it.
[/quote]

I hardly think that Canon will do anything about video in the upcoming cameras at all. They are not giving a damn about video on DSLR anymore. It's easy to tell since people had lots of expectations about the successor of the 5DMKII, but besides some moiré and anti-aliasing improvements - which helped the sharpness -, the resolution, the codec, etc. stayed basically the same. The 5DMKIII should've been the face of their video quality, but that shifted with their EOS C cameras. So I don't really think that the 70D will bring any of that.

Canon is clearly just living with the hype they created - deservedly so, I have to say - with the 5DMKII and investing in their new EOS Cinema cameras. But time will tell, Canon have been very conservative about innovation and leaps between the past and the actual generation, at least for video. But people keep buying it just based on hype, so who can blame them completely?

Even their Mirrorless solution for photography, just like Nikon, is pretty much just to be there and acquire some knowledge about the technology, bu nothing that really add. But still, people buy it because of the brand, people that don't really know about what's going on, sometimes even people with some knowledge of photography end up with a CaNikon in the end.

I know that they have tons of lenses and everything, but why simply settle down? But it's also true that the entry-level user usually buy a camera with the kit lens and the tele-zoom and that's it. I expected more of both Canon and Nikon so I hope that the sales rewards the brands that are pushing forward. I wonder what is gonna happen when the shift between DSLR and DSLM becomes and issue for them, will their mirrorless system have what it takes?

I'm not saying that their cameras are bad, just saying that they could have been contributing much more and they may end up paying for that in the future.

- a bit off topic, but not completely -

I really liked Fuji's strategy, quality glass, they are listening and trying to solve the issues. Fuji XPRO1 was their FIRST generation, it's expected to have some flaws, but they were pretty bold with what they brought to the market, the hybrid viewfinder, the high quality primes instead of crappy kit lens, they came up with a different solution for the sensor, they explored a untouched market forcing the mirrorless market to mature towards something more PRO.

Sony is also pushing hard the cameras, at least the bodies, but they have been pretty disappointing when it comes to lenses. They announced the 35mm f/1.8 but they really should address this lens ecosystem issue. Samsung started this WiFi thing and Sony is showing how much more can be accomplished.

Samsung really needs to make their cameras right and with the right price. They are overpriced and they always have some issue, slow buffer, slow focus, laggy interface, etc. But at least they have more lenses than Sony and some of them with good quality.

I hope that the GH3 can really bring a better DR and I'm looking forward for the actual Olympus PRO camera. MFT are the more mature system of them all and they are slowly getting rid of that "amateur" "toy" "bad performance" stigma. Some people still look at the MFT system with some prejudice but the Olympus OM-D EM-5, the new Panasonic GH3, the Olympus PRO camera and the high quality glass from both Panny and Oly should help consolidate the system. And as result there should be even more support from 3rd parties.

[Andrew Reid]

The skin tones look awful because you're watching a 7Mbit stream. That is one hell of a compression!

Wait for Monday and hopefully Philip will be able to turn on the download option.

[Astro]

Really the only thing I am concerned about right now is the strong rumour that has been around for a while, that it is using a non multi aspect sony Sensor, and that would also make the picture softer and affect the cropping.
I really hope this is not the case, I guess we will see on Monday.

[Anil Rao]

ok, my genuine points to consider after watching this.

1. Watch the fans blades in the beginning, that was really shocking,
unless they are all really furry, as I have seen fan blades with tassles before.

2. There is no demeaning here, the grading really is all over the place and that is not the fault of the camera now is it?

3. I'd like to know what is the budget of this, time frame of schedule and furthermore, look at how many people worked on it?

This would negate a few things to consider, the first being if you are going to do this properly, give it all the quality it needs. I am not going to fault the craftsmanship as there is a considerable amount of blood, sweat and tears that goes into a production like this and especially with a short timeframe to accomplish everything, however, if this is an official Panasonic showcase why didn't they take the time to do it right instead of a rush job?

More importantly, most of us are not going to have the kind of background support this demo utilises when working for ourselves, so that is not a real working example to use, to fairly showcase the camera, and even if we did, in all honestly I expected a better showcase, and not these kind of Ideal Home Exhibition demos, or shots of frogs close up you see on HD screens in Dixons.

I watched this as a film first and it was just too hammy, now before the obvious reply to that will be, yes but it is to show what the camera can do, I say that is fundamentally wrong as an example to sell this camera and here's why... I want to be held by the idea, if this idea is to show the GH3 as a working tool for filmmakers and not just to start flames and wars amongst the online pixel peepers, then shoot it as a film and not a technical promo, then when one watches it, you can say to yourself, 'wow that was great', followed by, 'what!!!! that was all shot on a GH3', then you have proven the point.

Philip made a film about a camera guy who collects cameras and it was awesome, then he told us at the Mac Video Expo where it was projected for us, that it was all shot on the NEX 5N, I was totally floored, that's the kind of example I expect to see. Even now when I think about it I can recall my wowness at watching it.

When I made a short film for the French filmmaker [i]Luc Besson[/i], I shot it on a 200 line resolution security camera, the kind put outside your garage, I just loved the field of view, (which was very [i]Terry Gilliam[/i] meets[i] Jean-Pierre Jeunet[/i]) and the image the camera gave me.

I had reworked the wiring so I could record the image to a DV Deck and shot my film as a film, as an idea I wanted to express. I then graded it at VTR (now known as Prime Focus) in Soho, by the legendary colourist [i]Tareq Kubaisi[/i] and it was screened in Paris, London and Tokyo.

My point being here, is that I could have shot it on 70mm if I really wanted to, however I am a guerilla filmmaker, and by guerilla I mean that I want to push what can be achieved without all the bells and whistles that raise costs and still be held up as a validated professional piece of work.[i] GENESIS[/i] obviously has all the bells and whistles thrown at it and it's unfortunately speaking, not a good showcase for what it should be doing, which is telling a story that at the end of it, has us go wow and then unbelievable.

They should have given this to Michael Mann and stipulated, off you mate and only by yourself, but he loves his Nikons too much ha :)

Doesn't matter though, I am really looking forward to getting one of these, and if I had the added expenditure I'd feel the same about the BMCC, I'll be watching how that all develops before stepping in, but it's all good. Someone already said it before, but a new kid always stirs things up for everyone else to re-raise their game and that's better for all of us right?

:)

[Astro]

[quote name='Anil Rao' timestamp='1347753417' post='18180']

1. Watch the fans blades in the beginning, that was really shocking,
unless they are all really furry, as I have seen fan blades with tassles before.
:)
[/quote]

LOL!! Totally agree, they look downright weird actually, tassles is a good description.
Another wierd thing like that appears again later when the guy runs rushes his bag past the lit window at 33 seconds, its like exaggerated field lines...what the hell is that? its like old analogue TV or something.
Also overall the video looks a bit softer than the GH2 as well..it appears to not just be a compression thing either.
I just hope this is not because of the rumoured Sony non multi aspect sensor!