Genesis - is this the Reverie moment for the GH3?

[Astro]

1080P version is now up at Philip Blooms site!
Hmmm Tassles are still there on the fan, field lines on the bag and the guy lying on the bed shot from above looks 5D Mk3 style soft (possibly out of focus) I dunno...I want to be excited...and parts look really good, but I have seen a lot better from the GH2...a lot better.
Dont want to jump to conclusions tho, we will see what happens on Monday.

[sanveer]

If it is, what comes in from seconds 4 to 8, then, it is because of the sunlight, that creeps in, from the curtains. Its a optical illusion. The tassles are caused, due to that. Maybe, if the fan blade was shot at any other angle, it would not be visible (or so apparent).

[MaxAperture Films]

[quote name='Astro' timestamp='1347758262' post='18182']
1080P version is now up at Philip Blooms site!
Hmmm Tassles are still there on the fan, field lines on the bag and the guy lying on the bed shot from above looks 5D Mk3 style soft (possibly out of focus) I dunno...I want to be excited...and parts look really good, but I have seen a lot better from the GH2...a lot better.
Dont want to jump to conclusions tho, we will see what happens on Monday.
[/quote]

Those are not tassles, they are the fan blade overlaps of the vertical bands from the folded parts of the curtains (that were probably intentionally graded to look blown-out). The motion blur of the fan image slightly darkens and picks up the curtain folds in the trails of the blades. It just looks like sloppy grading to me.

[horshack]

Why didn't the dude call her back after missing the call? He didn't even have to dial - just go to "missed calls" and bam, she's on the line and he saves $75 in gas and tolls. And he gets to stay in the motel and watch I Love Lucy reruns in his underwear. Maybe she's the type who doesn't like people not answering her calls and so he figured she wouldn't answer? I need to buy the book to learn the backstory. lol.

[Anil Rao]

[quote name='MaxAperture Films' timestamp='1347759294' post='18185']
Those are not tassles, they are the fan blade overlaps of the vertical bands from the folded parts of the curtains (that were probably intentionally graded to look blown-out). The motion blur of the fan image slightly darkens and picks up the curtain folds in the trails of the blades. It just looks like sloppy grading to me.
[/quote]

Yes, you are correct. However the blades do have some things hanging off of them to aggrivate the situation. Watch them when they have got past the windows light, anyway, moving on from tassles. I kept finding myself referring to Mann's [i]Collateral [/i]for some shots, after a few viewings.

I liked the first car shot of him driving, obviously shot from the bonnet rig, that was very cinematic in the image rendering, as in it felt like a Hollywood shot, and not a videoesque one, also with some of the night shots, the backgrounds were very nice, but the blacks were pushed to be too dark, again just using Mann's film as a counter point, which I know is asking way too much of this. However I remember when Mann discussed the shooting of [i]Collateral[/i] (as to why he shot video), he said he wanted to see into the night. When she runs down the stairs to the train and gets into the cab, it looks like it wants to not see into the night, really dark.

The grading really shows its difference when we get to the - trains in a museum hanger masquerading as a real station scene -, it goes really flat.

However, again, all these are really superficial points in the overall picture, with it being a test camera and with what was put together, bells and whistles or not, we have a winner here coming our way very soon, and I can't wait. :)

[gene_can_sing]

Reverie it is not.

But I think for a $2000 camera or whatever it will be (in that range), it's pretty damn good. With that said, many parts of the video seem to be overly sharp and not very organic looking. This is something I've really noticed with the GH2 which carries over to the GH3. There seems to be a lack of tonality in the colors. The GH cameras always look like there's a strong earthy, brown tone to all the video. It seems almost monochromatic like there's a single color wash over all the footage, compared to say.... Canon (who I despise as a company) or the FS700.

That's always been my major issue with the camera is the color, and it doesn't seem to be any different this time around.

Usually Bloom's videos have a pretty shallow DOF, even on the wider shots which gives a nice softer look that I like. The DOF on this video seems really deep. Not sure if that's the camera 2x crop coming through or an aesthetic decision, but it would look a bit better with a little shallower DOF IMO.

But still, the camera is damn inexpensive anyway you look at it and you are getting a LOT for your money. It will sell tons.

[Germy1979]

[quote name='Anil Rao' timestamp='1347753417' post='18180']
ok, my genuine points to consider after watching this.

1. Watch the fans blades in the beginning, that was really shocking,
unless they are all really furry, as I have seen fan blades with tassles before.

2. There is no demeaning here, the grading really is all over the place and that is not the fault of the camera now is it?

3. I'd like to know what is the budget of this, time frame of schedule and furthermore, look at how many people worked on it?

This would negate a few things to consider, the first being if you are going to do this properly, give it all the quality it needs. I am not going to fault the craftsmanship as there is a considerable amount of blood, sweat and tears that goes into a production like this and especially with a short timeframe to accomplish everything, however, if this is an official Panasonic showcase why didn't they take the time to do it right instead of a rush job?

More importantly, most of us are not going to have the kind of background support this demo utilises when working for ourselves, so that is not a real working example to use, to fairly showcase the camera, and even if we did, in all honestly I expected a better showcase, and not these kind of Ideal Home Exhibition demos, or shots of frogs close up you see on HD screens in Dixons.

I watched this as a film first and it was just too hammy, now before the obvious reply to that will be, yes but it is to show what the camera can do, I say that is fundamentally wrong as an example to sell this camera and here's why... I want to be held by the idea, if this idea is to show the GH3 as a working tool for filmmakers and not just to start flames and wars amongst the online pixel peepers, then shoot it as a film and not a technical promo, then when one watches it, you can say to yourself, 'wow that was great', followed by, 'what!!!! that was all shot on a GH3', then you have proven the point.

Philip made a film about a camera guy who collects cameras and it was awesome, then he told us at the Mac Video Expo where it was projected for us, that it was all shot on the NEX 5N, I was totally floored, that's the kind of example I expect to see. Even now when I think about it I can recall my wowness at watching it.

When I made a short film for the French filmmaker [i]Luc Besson[/i], I shot it on a 200 line resolution security camera, the kind put outside your garage, I just loved the field of view, (which was very [i]Terry Gilliam[/i] meets[i] Jean-Pierre Jeunet[/i]) and the image the camera gave me.

I had reworked the wiring so I could record the image to a DV Deck and shot my film as a film, as an idea I wanted to express. I then graded it at VTR (now known as Prime Focus) in Soho, by the legendary colourist [i]Tareq Kubaisi[/i] and it was screened in Paris, London and Tokyo.

My point being here, is that I could have shot it on 70mm if I really wanted to, however I am a guerilla filmmaker, and by guerilla I mean that I want to push what can be achieved without all the bells and whistles that raise costs and still be held up as a validated professional piece of work.[i] GENESIS[/i] obviously has all the bells and whistles thrown at it and it's unfortunately speaking, not a good showcase for what it should be doing, which is telling a story that at the end of it, has us go wow and then unbelievable.

They should have given this to Michael Mann and stipulated, off you mate and only by yourself, but he loves his Nikons too much ha :)

Doesn't matter though, I am really looking forward to getting one of these, and if I had the added expenditure I'd feel the same about the BMCC, I'll be watching how that all develops before stepping in, but it's all good. Someone already said it before, but a new kid always stirs things up for everyone else to re-raise their game and that's better for all of us right?

:)
[/quote]

Pretty good points here man.

Most of us have been following the development of the, (we'll call it) - "affordable cinema look project" since 2008 when Reverie hit the web. I'm sure it went back further, I remember Wolf Creek was shot on high-def....but that ran how much then? I like the philosophy of "the best camera for the job is the one you have".... It keeps you productive. This is a love for cameras that has developed since the dawn of DSLR cinema and its affordability over the last 4 years though. It's likened to a breakthrough medical explanation, lol. (yeah, turns out a.d.d. Is legit!)
We spend a ton of time watching tests with different lenses, patches, cameras, etc... Most of them are flowers. "Flowers with Sedna AQ1" - because we don't have Paramount budgets. But those are some of most cinematic flowers i've ever seen...

The case could be made for both. If you have a story, and the resources to make it, schedule it, and rent a Scarlet.... they're reasonable on lensrentals.com, and Red has a few big budget flicks under its belt.

Otherwise, you're probably looking at a camera for under $3000 because you want to own it, and use it whenever you want, can.
If you love the cinematic look... Shallow dof, interchangeable lenses, Etc... - you won't get that with an ipad.

So I think for some, it is about the cameras and that's cool, because I can see how it's happened. These are exciting times for poor, talented, aspiring filmmakers and if something like a GH2 would have been around when I was making my Army movies as a kid, I would've shit my pants.

So i see your argument here man and it's a good one... Because from an image standpoint, technically the GH2 has impressed me far more than a Nex 5n ever has...but I haven't seen a story on it that moved me... But that's a matter of personal taste on my end.

In Genesis, we see shallow dof, low light, wide angle, fast pace, detail, etc.. Shots most will pixel peep for things like banding and shit, even though it was a pre-production model. Obviously the story didn't concern anybody as much as the rolling shutter did. Ha!

It's funny. I spend more time watching vimeo than I do actual films anymore...Bourne Ultimatum is on right now in the background as I type this. Such a gritty, badass movie. It however breaks every single law of Vimeo cinematography I've come to know.. It's hilarious. I didn't care in 2007 when i first saw it. Now i subliminally think, "Cameraman on Adderall.". or "Blown highlights everywhere...all the time... Blown out.". Then that car chase comes on, and i don't give a shit anymore what it was shot on.

So yeah, i think if you shoot movies for a living, it takes something special to draw you away from that when you watch one. Same thing for a recording engineer. Good music, and all he's thinking is, "That's a Neumann U87."

[Germy1979]

[quote name='horshack' timestamp='1347762583' post='18187']
Why didn't the dude call her back after missing the call? He didn't even have to dial - just go to "missed calls" and bam, she's on the line and he saves $75 in gas and tolls. And he gets to stay in the motel and watch I Love Lucy reruns in his underwear. Maybe she's the type who doesn't like people not answering her calls and so he figured she wouldn't answer? I need to buy the book to learn the backstory. lol.
[/quote]

Baaahahahahaaaahahaaa!!!

"Hello?"

-"yes, did someone call Pierre?"

"uh...you were supposed to be here an hour ago asshole. You know, vacation? The train leaves in 45 minutes. I still have to grab our daughter from moms."

-"Sheet!....Sheet!"

"mmm hmm.....hotel again huh."

-"(cough) - no...?.."

"i bet your face down in your underwear with a bottle of scotch & your asshole hurts like hell.".

-".......h-how d-"

"don't bullshit me Pierre! You took Mikey's toy badge, and Ted's wife says he's been missing all night again. She's worried because the gun is gone too...you said you were through with that part of your life."

-"Pierre can explain!"

"Either Pierre produces himself at the train station in 45 minutes with a level of commitment that hinders my control of bodily functions, or the child support will be astronomical you sleazy motherf-cker....(click)."

(Ted later walks out of the bathroom with a cloud of steam, in a tight pink robe, and Hasselhoff chest hair.)

"you have the right to remain spectacular in bed...raaarrrrrr...."

[peederj]

I admire your screenwriting skills greatly germy!

Though as someone who owns and uses a real U87, i can tell you that after a couple days you aren't thinking "that's a U87." You are thinking about whether it gives the vo talent a cold or a kazoo voice or it's perfect. And if you are worth hiring you are simultaneously considering the bigger picture of what this means to the delivered narrative, and adjusting accordingly.

And after doing vo with a U87 you aren't likely to waste much time with the GH3's of microphones. Let the local car dealerships cope with that sound.

[Astro]

[quote name='gene_can_sing' timestamp='1347763912' post='18189']
Reverie it is not.
[/quote]

Yep I am no Canon fan ...and I love my GH2 but yeah the colors on Reverie are soo much better, they are not exactly cinematic, but they have plenty of pop and look really good (larger than life).

[quote name='gene_can_sing' timestamp='1347763912' post='18189']
This is something I've really noticed with the GH2 which carries over to the GH3. There seems to be a lack of tonality in the colors. The GH cameras always look like there's a strong earthy, brown tone to all the video. It seems almost monochromatic like there's a single color wash over all the footage, compared to say.... Canon (who I despise as a company) or the FS700.
[/quote]

Pretty much agree with this...although I found Vibrant to be good on the GH2, and with not too color grading work I can get some nice bright and clean colors from the GH2.
I agree with you about Canon too, I doubt if I'll ever buy another Camera off them, they seem to be no longer an option (for me anyway)

[quote name='gene_can_sing' timestamp='1347763912' post='18189']
That's always been my major issue with the camera is the color, and it doesn't seem to be any different this time around.
[/quote]

Yep that may well be true, its possible there were no color profiles on that camera...I hope that is the case.
I guess we will know more in a few days.
Actually the biggest criticism I have is I thought that even the 1080p version looked pretty soft on a lot of shots.
Personally I will be really interested to know if its now a Sony Sensor in that camera, I like the multi aspect sensor on the Gh2, I would be very dissappointed to see that style of sensor no longer in the GH series.
The other thing is what features can be controlled by Android apps etc...

[quote name='gene_can_sing' timestamp='1347763912' post='18189']
But still, the camera is damn inexpensive anyway you look at it and you are getting a LOT for your money. It will sell tons.
[/quote]

Yep it probably will sell tons.

[Germy1979]

[quote name='peederj' timestamp='1347769413' post='18192']
I admire your screenwriting skills greatly germy!

Though as someone who owns and uses a real U87, i can tell you that after a couple days you aren't thinking "that's a U87." You are thinking about whether it gives the vo talent a cold or a kazoo voice or it's perfect. And if you are worth hiring you are simultaneously considering the bigger picture of what this means to the delivered narrative, and adjusting accordingly.

And after doing vo with a U87 you aren't likely to waste much time with the GH3's of microphones. Let the local car dealerships cope with that sound.
[/quote]

Oh yes brother.. That's a whole different discussion, lol:)

It's funny just how parallel the production philosophies mingle in video/music. I took a break from it after 15 years of having music i really didn't like, shoved down my throat. When it gets to the point where one day you have a revelation, that presents no point in your life where you dreamed of being a mastering engineer for shitty music... It's time to regroup i think, lol.

I've mixed and recorded with some pretty coveted gear over the years also man, and i agree with you on the level of expectation... once you get to that level.. Though i don't think we would have said, "Hey Bono... we're gonna try an SM58 first....see how that goes.". But that was back before it was neccessary to autotune someone, until they sounded like they had a cold, lol.... My other issue with the modern music scene. :)

It's basically to the point where finding anything worth liking is like finding a treasure.... Which can be rewarding for those who work in the craft... We still need to be inspired also from time to time. But even my heroes aren't a sure thing like they used to be, anymore... "Prometheus" let me down. The last thing Hans Zimmer did that impressed me was the fast moving viola arpeggio behind the theme in "like a dog chasing cars" on The Dark Knight. I used to love his unpredictability in cues, but he hasn't really done it like that since the 90's... And the only song i liked this year, came out last year by Amos Lee called "Violin.". I sure as hell didn't hear it on the radio though..

Guess it's all subjective to personal flavor these days, People like hearing computers sing:)

[KahL]

[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1347751913' post='18177']
The skin tones look awful because you're watching a 7Mbit stream. That is one hell of a compression!

Wait for Monday and hopefully Philip will be able to turn on the download option.
[/quote]
lul wut? Did you really just say that?
Skin tones won't improve in color by that much from a 7Mbps stream to a 10Mbps one. They'll have more clarity, but the tones and color are the tones and the color. Maybe this is a post issue. But, Panasonic doesn't have a good reputation for skin tone rendering as far as I've known. Ever.

Post work doesn't count. You can make almost anything look great in post w/ enough time and technique applied.

[eliasd]

for once more, they feed us peanuts and they expect to say thank you? come on! marketing departments live on another planet, they havent heard anything about european crisis, guys i havent heard anything about the price yet, after that we could really talk.

[markm]

Genesis looked quite cinematic but I have to say a lot of the shots especially when the camera was in low light were quite soft.. There was a shot of the girl in town though that looked very sharp.

One of the things about the GH2 is the way you can use lots of different hacks for different conditions.

I figured out why I was having problems with Driftwoods hacks I'm using a sandisc 32gb but only 30mbs write speed and I really should use the 95mbs card even for Andrews hack.

I think I need to see some resolution tests and what sharpening might be doing.

After looking closely at Genesis I'm not sure I'm ready to swap my GH2 yet.

[Bart van der Horst]

No wideangle shots. Very clever. But very nicely done. I think the gh3 will be just better. A better choice then the bmc. Because the bmc is a hell of a job to work with. GH3 will be very easy to work with muito cheaper and has a bigger sensor which is so much better. Really bmc looks nice but if you see the crop comparison... you want to run.

[Astro]

[quote name='markm' timestamp='1347782755' post='18198']
Genesis looked quite cinematic but I have to say a lot of the shots especially when the camera was in low light were quite soft.. There was a shot of the girl in town though that looked very sharp.
After looking closely at Genesis I'm not sure I'm ready to swap my GH2 yet.
[/quote]

Yeah agreed, this was the camera on my list...not the BMCC for a lot of different reasons.
But....even tho some people say the shots looked cinematic and they do in a way, the ones that worried me were the indoor shots, they were just soft period and there were a lot of them, I just cant understand how they passed those and then put them in a promo video, they just looked kinda blunt to me and without any clear detail.
The girl in town looked pretty good tho, but I have seen better from the GH2 many times, I have better ones myself...not just sharper, but cleaner and more detailed.

I agree about the colors too...they just lack some pop, however I have seen nice colors from Panansonic Cameras and shot videos myself where I have been very happy with the colors.
But I do agree this video has a green and brown almost messy looking hue...its just not that appealing, I dunno.
Anyway I am hanging on to my GH2 right now, and may invest in another, I can live with its limitations unless Sony or this GH3 really lives up to expectations, and that may happen after the launch and we have seen more footage and read more details about it.
But right now, this video has pretty much dampened my enthusiasm on the GH3 despite being well done and a lot of effort in it , I just dont really like it...(the images I mean)

[Axel]

YES!
CINEMA!
ALMOST SOLD!
Thank you so much, PB.

Sexist? How prude. American?

[Per Lichtman]

@peederj @germy1979 I know what you mean. :)

Anyway, a lot of the complaints that @germy1979 mentioned about the music industry in general were the reasons I loved working with Joanna St. Claire and Hila Plitmann so much.

We'll be releasing the HD audio masters for Joanna St. Claire's "Stream" pretty soon, but that was an album that really was given the time it needed to develop (even for the "standard" release in 2010).

Have a listen and you'll see what I mean - this one took a lot of time to do and there are some really, really good players on it from the U.S., South America and throughout Europe.

[url="http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/stream/id375698520"]http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/stream/id375698520[/url]

[markm]

What happened to the Tele mode? This was such a useful feature with my 16mm film lenses.

I guess if the Tele mode has gone it means I wont have to worry about losing the external monitor anymore. Was hoping all that would have been fixed on the GH3.

[Max]

[size=3]This video clip was boring, nothing as Exciting as "joy ride" or V-Laforet impact. Both has true cinematic feel. These guys can do Miracle with any camera!. Camera as a tool does matter, but not much as the [/size][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3]Director/DP and the characters. Even mastering camera angles and moment do not compensate for that. [/size][/font]

[font=arial, sans-serif][size=3]The main issue with the GH3 is the small sensor so even with lower video resolution a FF camera will get better [/size][/font][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3]cinematic feel. For travallers, GH3[/size] [/font][size=3]low weight and IQ will be[/size][size=3][font=arial, sans-serif] fantastic.[/font]


[b] [/b][/size]