Genesis - is this the Reverie moment for the GH3?

[Astro]

[quote name='KahL' timestamp='1347865857' post='18297']
I'm curious to see what the "wide dynamic range" capability actually is with this newer model though. The colors are a big turn off for me, so maybe that's a saving grace beyond deluded fandom support :-/
[/quote]

I tend to agree about the colors on the P Bloom video actually.
However if you look at sites like this and personal view you will see there is ample criticism and doubt from many posters about the GH3..so no need for the "deluded / fanboy" style insults, it doesn't achieve anything other than make people think badly of you.
Cheers

[Andrew Reid]

[quote name='KahL' timestamp='1347865857' post='18297']
No it did not and that bit of strong misinformation was further perpetuated by this site as well.
[/quote]

More like it was perpetuated by people misunderstanding the article and all the words.

Misinterpreting information is very common.

At no point did I say on the blog that the GH2 was technically superior to an Alexa, Epic or F65 in the Zacuto shootout.

[markm]

[quote name='KahL' timestamp='1347865857' post='18297']
No it did not and that bit of strong misinformation was further perpetuated by this site as well.
The GH2 had a [u]HUGE [/u]amount of grading only surpassed by the iPhone and scene re-lighting to compensate for its small DR. The actual default image (shown in Ep.3) wasn't very good at all beyond resolution detail really.

I'm curious to see what the "wide dynamic range" capability actually is with this newer model though. The colors are a big turn off for me, so maybe that's a saving grace beyond deluded fandom support :-/
[/quote]
1 The GH2 arguably had the best picture well of course it did within the confines of the zacuto challenge 3. It's so annoying when people dont check their facts and run others down. On the Zacuto blind test many picked the GH2 as their favourite. I did. No less than Francis Ford Coppola picked the GH2.
2) As for the grading SO WHAT. The test was to see who could get the best picture and ALL cameras got the same chance or are you saying it was unfair in favour of the GH2.
3)You admit resolution was okay and then have an opinion NOT FACT An opinion by the way that far more professional people completely disagree with.
4)Who cares what you are curious about?
5)Dont judge me. I am not a fan of any camera I only care what it can do.
6) You have given no information only to down the GH2 and to down me for giving facts and you did this with insults inuendo and either lying or no knowledge of the facts. Are you a troll?.

[Astro]

[quote name='markm' timestamp='1347872068' post='18306']
You have given no information only to down the GH2 and to down me for giving facts and you did this with insults inuendo and either lying or no knowledge of the facts. Are you a troll?.
[/quote]

LOL!! Excellent reponse!! :D
I agree totally, guys like this come in with a big aggressive attitudes...and with an air of total superiority and disregard
for others, then they hurl out insults to top it off...and these are the type responses of they will get.

Talk about lack of people / communication skills and a total lack of any regard at all!!
The internet is full of people like this guy, you will find them on the DAW forums, 3d forums and everywhere else,
ruining quite often constructive conversations with their egocentric desire to put down others, claim what they use and know is totally superior and right...jeez

[markm]

You know the amazing thing about the GH2 when hacked on the Zacuto test was this little box that cost peanuts compared to an Alexa could be chosen by many as PREFERABLE So what does that tell you about paying £50000 or £600 when when clearly unlocking the sensor gives these results. Only a matter of time before kinefinity or BMD sell a camera at its true worth and takes a healthy profit with it.

The only good thing I can see with Canon Nikon Panny Sony in the consumer range etc is they ability to use high compression codecs saving on disc space and so time spent with it. Most are not making hollywood blockbusters and happy to use compressed 9 stops 8bit 4.2.0 and why not It certainly makes great movies like Genesis which although I'm being critical because we are judging the film based on the camera. Not the skill of the cast and crew.

I actually thought Bruce Logan and Phil Bloom did an excellent job from the crew perspective. Also the storyline was in keeping with competing and comparing against other promotional films. I loved the way the tube train swept in particularly and I liked the colour correction. The speed of the edit was a little off putting at first but now I like it. The train station was gorgeous and generally the film looked slick and professional. As for the acting I'm going to say the camerawork didn't help in that regard and the sound for vocals was a little weak. I thought more development on maybe getting her to act like a suspect Ooops I'm droning on. Because this was a promotional film and it did what it was designed to do.

Just a shame the camera didnt match it. I've heard some say as it was not the final product it could have a different sensor or dirt on it or any number of problems. and that we should accept that. To me that is a silly argument. This is supposed to be a PROMOTIONAL video and as such must be passed by Panasonic to PROMOTE the GH3 If the resolution has been softened by filters OR dirt on the lens etc. This film SHOULD not have been released and if people draw the wrong conclusions that is Pannys fault entirely.

[Germy1979]

I agree on the promo video. The Nikon D600 seemed to have a great concept... But it looked completely video with those high frame rates... My opinion means shit...but if you're going to shoot at "my kids soccer game" frame rates, why have uncompressed hdmi, etc.. You know the video indie demographic for this camera will most likely be shooting cinematic type material at 24, 25fps. (Typing a long rant on it makes me sound like an overbearing dick, lol... It's the only video i've seen from the D600 anyway, many more to come.)

Genesis on the other hand... Okay..... So yeah, i didn't cry at the end... None of the shots were long enough to really marvel at the possibilities of what this camera may be able to do, i understand it can't be 10 minutes long, but that didn't stop Canon when the C300 came out. (mobius, max is back, etc.)

I want to see a "feature" like that from a Gh camera. Come on! Act of Valor?... It held up!! Yes, he used Dark Energy, Panavision Glass, etc... But it still had the 5D2 problems everybody else had. Not to sound like a fanboy, but the Gh2 has a better image... Truth is, in the end, Shane's a Canon guy. (1D-C is one of the best images he's ever seen and it gives the Alexa a run for its money apparently.. Lol) - plus, there's the hack issue. The studio probably wouldn't have liked the idea of using a hack had they gone the Gh2 route.

[Pierre_move]

[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1347796538' post='18237']
Yes cinema Pierre, like that screened at the Skywalker Ranch for Coppola.

You don't know it doesn't have a flat profile yet.

You don't know if it looks better than the GH2 yet because you're judging massively compressed web footage at 7Mbit - not ALL-I 72mbit 1080p.

Muppet post of the year?
[/quote]

72mbit will magically change the "panny" colors and noticeably widen the dynamic range??? Aaw c'mon.... but hey... I didn't say this footage or the camera is shit.

I had the GH2 as a toy for a year and in about 8% situations it produced something I would call a perfect image. But those other 92% frustrated the hell out of me and post production could never save it. The "Zacuto GH2" incident just fits in those 8% btw.

A "cinema" camera performs great at least in 70% of situations.

Oh and yeah.. again.. no logs and flats.

[kirk]

[quote name='Pierre_move' timestamp='1347900314' post='18370']
72mbit will magically change the "panny" colors and noticeably widen the dynamic range??? Aaw c'mon.... but hey... I didn't say this footage or the camera is shit.

I had the GH2 as a toy for a year and in about 8% situations it produced something I would call a perfect image. But those other 92% frustrated the hell out of me and post production could never save it. The "Zacuto GH2" incident just fits in those 8% btw.

A "cinema" camera performs great at least in 70% of situations.

Oh and yeah.. again.. no logs and flats.
[/quote]

8% usable shots from the GH2? Sounds like you have a lot to learn :P

[Pierre_move]

[quote name='kirk' timestamp='1347901134' post='18372']
8% usable shots from the GH2? Sounds like you have a lot to learn :P
[/quote]

I think I wrote "perfect image". Sounds like you have trouble with semantics.

[kirk]

[quote name='Pierre_move' timestamp='1347902644' post='18374']
I think I wrote "perfect image". Sounds like you have trouble with semantics.
[/quote]

Well, you wrote you couldn't save the rest in post... so according to your own sematics you have 8 % perfect and 92 unsaveable... Then you state that 70 % of a "cinema" camera's shots are "great" (not perfect...). So you somehow compare 8% perfect with 70 percent great (and how the hell did you come to the 70% figure??)... so please tighten your semantics ;)

[markm]

Pierre The GH2 can be difficult to get right I took the camera out on a few occassions and it let me down badly Till I discovered it was the card. Although the right one it only had a write speed of 30mbs. Also when I used it unhacked I got low resolution banding and crap pictures. I did numerous tests for resolution come up against severe opposition for daring to question its resolving power and was about to give up on it until I tried driftwoods hack and I found a superb cinematic picture and could make films better than my old EX1 for quality.

However many have said the unhacked camera gives good results. I never saw it but maybe my tests were somehow flawed although I dont think so OR we have different levels of what is acceptable.

I would say persevere with it and you may like what you get.

For professional film making though the GH2 is a toy at 8 bit 4.2.0 until the BMC though there wasnt much in town unless you spent a fortune. The GH3 looks as if it has really improved things.

[KahL]

[quote name='markm' timestamp='1347872068' post='18306']
1 The GH2 arguably had the best picture well of course it did within the confines of the zacuto challenge 3. It's so annoying when people dont check their facts and run others down. On the Zacuto blind test many picked the GH2 as their favourite. I did. No less than Francis Ford Coppola picked the GH2.[/quote]

You're not making any sense.
The GH2 was arguably said to have the best picture....by a POLL ON NOFILMSCHOOL.COM, not within the documentary. In fact, only a few people chose the GH2 in Ep.2, not "most" as perpetuated here. In Ep.3, what was shown wasn't a superior image, but a sub par image beyond resolution capabilities.

The "blind test" wasn't really blind at all because it was the result of re-lighting AND heavy post correction. In other words, it was misleading.

[quote name='markm' timestamp='1347872068' post='18306']2) As for the grading SO WHAT. The test was to see who could get the best picture and ALL cameras got the same chance or are you saying it was unfair in favour of the GH2.[/quote]

No, this isn't what I said nor insinuated. What I am saying is that the hyperbole in the GH2's favor for Ep.2 (not Ep.3) was overblown. Maybe the result of "little man complex", who knows.

[quote name='markm' timestamp='1347872068' post='18306'] 3)You admit resolution was okay and then have an opinion NOT FACT An opinion by the way that far more professional people completely disagree with.[/quote]

By "far more", who are you referring to? The Zacuto staff? The theater attendees? They don't support your argument as maybe only 3-4 chose "B"/GH2. Or are you referring to the nofilmschool.com poll results? Be more specific and less dramatic.



[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1347870528' post='18303']
More like it was perpetuated by people misunderstanding the article and all the words.

Misinterpreting information is very common.

At no point did I say on the blog that the GH2 was technically superior to an Alexa, Epic or F65 in the Zacuto shootout.
[/quote]

No, but what you DID do was create more hyperbole by using Coppola's name to give credibility to the GH2 being a superior image. When in fact it was heavily corrected (how many windows were needed again?) footage to the point of not even being GH2 footage any longer. Coppola chose an image that he liked, this is true. However it wasn't a "native" image, it was severely changed.

Now no one is saying there is anything wrong w/ fixing in post. At the lower levels, we all have to do so. However by the way you made it sound, the GH2 was able to hang w/ the bigger boys by default. You even used the headline:
[b] "Francis Ford Coppola and majority prefer Panasonic GH2"[/b]

Which was completely untrue; only a few people did within the 2012 documentaries.

[u]THAT was hyperbole and misleading.[/u]

[Germy1979]

It's a headline man. That kind of comes with the territory.. Think, "Man brushes his teeth!" and then under it in italics, "I thought i was going to die.."

Boom! Shit just got interesting...I think the whole point of the article was a $600 camera getting picked by a guy a lot of people / aspiring filmmakers respect. It wasn't my choice, i own a GH2. I thought it looked too clean. I like my sex dirty though so I probably would've went with an old prime & a little grain. That Fuji, while badass, was still a 2.8.. & that's pretty fast don't get me wrong, but i have a 2.8 and I don't reach for it in dim situations with a Gh2. So I'm sure they had to light the piss out of it. It's great...but it's still a $600 camera with 8 or 9 stops on a good day. It just got the royal treatment by a couple of guys that knew how to get the most out of it.

Which was also the point of the shootout.

[hmcindie]

Reverie moment? I doubt it. Reverie actually still looks kinda amazing. With the low res contrasty 30p image.

I guess Vincent can really photograph stuff.

[markm]

[quote name='KahL' timestamp='1347922292' post='18400']
You're not making any sense.
[/quote]

Don't undermine me
[quote name='KahL' timestamp='1347922292' post='18400']
The GH2 was arguably said to have the best picture....by a POLL ON NOFILMSCHOOL.COM, not within the documentary. In fact, only a few people chose the GH2 in Ep.2, not "most" as perpetuated here.
[/quote]

I was talking about the Zacuto challege 3 Why are you talking about the second?

[quote name='KahL' timestamp='1347922292' post='18400']
In Ep.3, what was shown wasn't a superior image, but a sub par image beyond resolution capabilities.
[/quote]
Thats YOUR opinion and if I undestand what your saying is that the driftwood hack gives an inadequate picture that is built on a camera incapable of high resolution. Stop hiding behind clever words and call it what it is. That is deceptive,

The Driftwood hack on the GH2 in my opinion gives it a picture quality that competes with an Alexa within the limitations of 8 bit 4.2.0 and DR of course anything above that and you have no chance. That is what is so special about the BMC which really is a baby Alexa.

[quote name='KahL' timestamp='1347922292' post='18400']
The "blind test" wasn't really blind at all because it was the result of re-lighting AND heavy post correction. In other words, it was misleading.
[/quote]
The test did what it said on the tin and under these conditions the GH2 arguably had the best picture. Of course these were conditions set up by Zacuto and real life conditions will mean something else. We dont need this explained by YOU as Zacuto explained it before hand with warnings and concerns.

A driftwood hacked GH2 can be as good as an Arri or Red within its confines as it is still only 8bit 4.2.0 However so are the films you watch in HD The point is 8bit 4.2.0 can look as good as 10 bit 4.4.4 providing you get the lighting exposure DR and dont have to change things much in post. Under these circumstances the GH2 HACKED competes with an Alexa.
[quote name='KahL' timestamp='1347922292' post='18400']
By "far more", who are you referring to? The Zacuto staff? The theater attendees? They don't support your argument as maybe only 3-4 chose "B"/GH2.
[/quote]
I said arguably the best picture That means some preferred the GH2.
[quote name='KahL' timestamp='1347922292' post='18400']
[i]Or are you referring to the nofilmschool.com poll results? [/i]
[/quote]
I didnt read this.
[quote name='KahL' timestamp='1347922292' post='18400']
Be more specific and less dramatic.
[/quote]
Who do you think you are telling me how to think and act.
[quote name='KahL' timestamp='1347922292' post='18400']
No, but what you DID do was create more hyperbole by using Coppola's name to give credibility to the GH2 being a superior image. When in fact it was heavily corrected (how many windows were needed again?) footage to the point of not even being GH2 footage any longer. Coppola chose an image that he liked, this is true. However it wasn't a "native" image, it was severely changed.
[/quote]
Every camera was allowed to light and colour correct how they wanted and the test was to find out how a good DP and colourist could make the image look. BUT THE INFORMATION HAS TO BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE, The GH2 with driftwoods hack LOOKS just as good as an Alexa AND no one would spot the difference providing there are no areas overexposed Obviously though within the confines of what the GH2 8bits 4.2.0 and DR can do. The Zacuto test proved exactly that.

My advice to you is to learn more and understand why this can be so. Many people have spent an awful lot of time unlocking the potential of cameras like the GH2 for these reasons.. The driftwood hacked GH2 can under the [b][u]RIGHT[/u][/b][u] [/u]circumstances be as good as an ALEXA Get used to this and stop trying to subvert facts to fit into your preferred world reality.

[nigelbb]

[quote name='hmcindie' timestamp='1347953489' post='18422']
Reverie moment? I doubt it. Reverie actually still looks kinda amazing. With the low res contrasty 30p image.

I guess Vincent can really photograph stuff.
[/quote]The blog about how they came to film Reverie is an interesting read. It was an early production model 5D2 & they had no user manual so just had to wing it. It was shot at 30fps on auto-everything. Compare that to the BMCC or GH3 demos filmed with a full crew, lighting & extensive post production.

[KarimNassar]

I don't understand how you can ask such a question Andrew because I downloaded the 1080p and this video is a big letdown and nothing else.

The cinematography is bad.
There is no consistency between the shots color wise or look wise they feel put together and don't flow well.
Overall the colors are bad as well. Shadows are crushed in every single shot, most of the footage is overly contrasted and has poor dynamic range. Lighting is bad as well.

But all of this is purely the responsibility of the dp and post-production so it means nothing concerning the gh3 quality which is all I care about.

But even so in that aspect...everything is soft. :(
And where is the high dynamic range they talked about?
burned highlights, crushed shadows....there is a lot of color noise in the night shots as well.
Overall it looks like my mark II footage, it has the same overly contrasted muddy feel.

waiting on more footage...

[marike6]

I like this video a lot, and thanks Andrew for your excellent summary of the camera.

Some of the comments on NoFilmSchool about "Genesis" where that it had a distinctly "digital look". I'm not sure I agree with this entirely. It's certainly not a cold, sterile look, but a more cinematic, pleasingly subtle look, at least to my eyes. I think the key with the Panasonic m43 cameras is you need to avoid native glass, and use vintage lenses or the 2 Voigtlander, the 25 and 17.5 lenses.

Lastly, a quick question to the commenters on the first page of this article. Since when is showing someone in the Southern California sleeping in shorts or getting down on one knee to propose sexist? I get the whole PC, gender parity thing, but don't you think you may be taking it a bit far? I mean Southern California is hot in the summer. Did you think the actor should be wearing flannel PJs?

Thanks.