The new Leica M as a filmmaker's tool - an interview with Leica's Jesko von Oeynhausen

[cameraboy]

40mbit MJPEG is a little bit thin for decent compression ...
80-100 would be great ...
and 30p....

[johnnymossville]

if the video quality stands up to leica standards, this could definitely be a valuable tool for photo journalists. small form factor, rugged and professional results.

[bradleyg5]

[quote]To scale 24MP down to 2MP for 1080p we do not just line-skipping, we average pixels. It is not pixel binning or anything like that.[/quote]

Isn't this precisely what the Canon 5d Mark III does? This cuts down on noise and eliminates moire but results in a rather soft image. Maybe they figured out a way to produce a sharp image but I certainly wouldn't expect above and beyond the Mark III

[cameraboy]

Canon 5d Mark III does pixel binning same as gh2 ...
why is so soft ?
only CANON knows....

[hmcindie]

[quote name='cameraboy' timestamp='1348642345' post='19060']
Canon 5d Mark III does pixel binning same as gh2 ...
[/quote]

Pixel binning is the exact same thing as averaging. Duh.

[sicovdplas]

Andrew, you can't be serious, you are a Canon Basher, and you don't bash Leica? (...)

No 1080/60p50p?
Moire?
Hello, nearly 7k in price(!!)
MJPEG(!!)

[cameraboy]

[quote name='hmcindie' timestamp='1348654500' post='19065']
Pixel binning is the exact same thing as averaging. Duh.
[/quote]
nope...Duh..
hardware averaging is pixel binning...
looks like that leica does software averaging ...

[bradleyg5]

[quote name='cameraboy' timestamp='1348655136' post='19067']
nope...Duh..
software vs hardware....
[/quote]

You're saying Leica is saying that the full 24MP can be read out of the sensor 24/25 times a second, then that information can be downscaled in software? How exactly is that supposed to work? that a Leica camera made of brass and iron is able to move that much information off the sensor when a 1dx or D4 doesn't come close to achieving it.

[cameraboy]

1dx does ...
just with another name ...
and dont mix LEICA with CANON ...
its blasphemy ...
;)

[Bruno]

[quote name='bradleyg5' timestamp='1348655432' post='19068']
You're saying Leica is saying that the full 24MP can be read out of the sensor 24/25 times a second, then that information can be downscaled in software? How exactly is that supposed to work? that a Leica camera made of brass and iron is able to move that much information off the sensor when a 1dx or D4 doesn't come close to achieving it.
[/quote]

The images are read at full sensor resolution, scaled down by the processor while in memory and then saved to the card/movie file.
It's not that hard to understand, is it?

1DX, D4 and a ton other cameras don't achieve it because they weren't programmed to do so, doesn't mean it's impossible.

[tony wilson]

Andrew, you can't be serious, you are a Canon Basher, and you don't bash Leica? (...)

No 1080/60p50p?
Moire?
Hello, nearly 7k in price(!!)
MJPEG(!!)



you have know idea what the image will be like.
leica has a reputation defined by the purity and perfection of optics and cameras.
maybe the greatest reputation of all companies.
they go slow.they do not join cost races to dilute top line product ranges.
they wait for the best sensor,they wait for the technology to exist in a refined form before they integrate into top range products.
let us not beat them up for a camera that does not yet exist apart from tester cameras.
rumour is the test model is already pretty handy.
these products are for super serious pros with money or the very well off that want the best.
plenty of cheap plastic cameras around for the price of a leica lens hood.
i have a leica digilux 2 from 8 years ago leica replaced the sensor last year for free.
leica are not going to release the most important camera for them in years that is flawed imager.
that camera clearly is of interest to existing customers it is not trying to attract gh2 users.
this camera is only a good thing and in the future i believe they will make other products with video.
i would suggest people email leica direct with ideas for future directions.
this company is small enough to listen to valid ideas.
lets wait and see..for most it is not relevent because of price point but for some it is great news.

[sicovdplas]

[quote name='tony wilson' timestamp='1348705853' post='19091']
Andrew, you can't be serious, you are a Canon Basher, and you don't bash Leica? (...)

No 1080/60p50p?
Moire?
Hello, nearly 7k in price(!!)
MJPEG(!!)



you have know idea what the image will be like.
leica has a reputation defined by the purity and perfection of optics and cameras.
maybe the greatest reputation of all companies.
they go slow.they do not join cost races to dilute top line product ranges.
they wait for the best sensor,they wait for the technology to exist in a refined form before they integrate into top range products.
let us not beat them up for a camera that does not yet exist apart from tester cameras.
rumour is the test model is already pretty handy.
these products are for super serious pros with money or the very well off that want the best.
plenty of cheap plastic cameras around for the price of a leica lens hood.
i have a leica digilux 2 from 8 years ago leica replaced the sensor last year for free.
leica are not going to release the most important camera for them in years that is flawed imager.
that camera clearly is of interest to existing customers it is not trying to attract gh2 users.
this camera is only a good thing and in the future i believe they will make other products with video.
i would suggest people email leica direct with ideas for future directions.
this company is small enough to listen to valid ideas.
lets wait and see..for most it is not relevent because of price point but for some it is great news.
[/quote]

You are comparing a still camera (Leica) vs a HEAVY compressed codec?
For the 1000st time for people, STILLS are NOT the same as Video.
RAW photography is a way other game than video, it's just not the same, why don't people get this?
Leica will not bring pro functions to the camera e.g. raw video, 444 or uncompressed.
Ofcourse Leica has the reputation of one of the best glass around, but not video.
If you look at the specs, you can predict image quality. so far it will look like major pile of shit for 6000+ euro's

[tony wilson]

why don't you get this..
the camera is not for you ok.
it is a stills camera with video for an existing target market.
not someone that seems to be getting angry that leica are not giving you a baby alexa for 600 dollars.
plenty of plastic out on the market for you : )
i say it again i trust leica more as image lens and camera makers based on nearly 100 years of history and proven excellence.
moan to them i suggest you contact leica and tell them they are ignorant idiots.
suggest to them where the non existant camera project has gone wrong.
these are not sony or canon.
i bet you it would be super easy to speak to
[b] [size=4]Jesko von Oeynhausen lecture him pretend you are an interested rich kid.[/size][/b]
who knows they may let you join the beta test prototype camera team.

[FilmMan]

Leica video interview:
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vN4NQBRHJ4I"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vN4NQBRHJ4I[/url]

[FilmMan]

About 12.5 stops dynamic range? (dynamic range of [b][color="#000000"]76dB)[/color][/b]
[b][color="#000000"][url="http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.ca/2012/09/cmosis-sensor-in-leica-m-rangefinder.html"]http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.ca/2012/09/cmosis-sensor-in-leica-m-rangefinder.html[/url][/color][/b]

[b][color="#000000"]So with Leica lenses, probably could be around 13.5 stops to 14 stops? [/color][/b]

[bradleyg5]

[quote name='Bruno' timestamp='1348685717' post='19083']
The images are read at full sensor resolution, scaled down by the processor while in memory and then saved to the card/movie file.
It's not that hard to understand, is it?

1DX, D4 and a ton other cameras don't achieve it because they weren't programmed to do so, doesn't mean it's impossible.
[/quote]

riiiiiiiiiiight I doubt in the highest possible terms that is what this camera does. You still need to move the data off the chip into memory and process it. it's a bandwidth limitation, the problem is you can't get the data off the sensor fast enough. If Sony can't do it, Canon can't do it, Panasonic can't do it, Nikon can't do it, Samsung can't do it, I very much doubt a tiny company like Leica that is still using CCDs in their cameras can do it.

That's not what this camera does.

[cameraboy]

[quote name='bradleyg5' timestamp='1348895609' post='19162']
riiiiiiiiiiight I doubt in the highest possible terms that is what this camera does. You still need to move the data off the chip into memory and process it. it's a bandwidth limitation, the problem is you can't get the data off the sensor fast enough. If Sony can't do it, Canon can't do it, Panasonic can't do it, Nikon can't do it, Samsung can't do it, I very much doubt a tiny company like Leica that is still using CCDs in their cameras can do it.

That's not what this camera does.
[/quote]
Man you are wrong on so many levels ...
I will not waste my time in explaining why...

[tony wilson]

[b]bradleyg5 go tell[/b][b][size=4] Jesko von Oeynhausen.[/size][/b]
[b]he is a fool and this little 3rd rate company leica he works for are clowns yes no.[/b]
[b]go tell them the fucking theory...[/b]
[b]we cannot help with the development of the prototype camera,and as you understand more than the germans and have a deeper insight than them i suggest you speak to them.[/b]
[b]or make your own camera and undercut this little german outfit.[/b]
[b]maybe do not call it bradley g5 as it sounds like tank and folks do not like being reminded of death and the us military industrial complex.[/b]

[b]i really think you should call them and argue your position and let us know the responce if your shy send them a point for point email critique and post the reply here.[/b]
[b]as i have said leica are jolly nice friendly people and being german technical perfectionists.[/b]
[b]they are open to any valid input on potential flaws in future product lines especially release of the most important camera for them in many years.[/b]

[Germy1979]

So this has kinda gone in a different direction.

[bradleyg5]

I will appreciate your apologies when this camera comes out and a 1080p still frame looks nothing like a downscaled full resolution picture frame. I don't doubt they are "nice" Germans I'm just saying Leica expertise has never been in sensor technology, they are good at making things out of glass and metal.