do tripods really matter?

[craigbuckley]

So I need a tripod, bad, for shooting short films with my new gh2.. now have read that manfrotto makes some of the best, for my range, my question is, should I get some 70 dollaes tripod or something like the avelli avtp pro tripod or spend the extra 150$ on the manfrotto 701hdv?

[Axel]

Set your mind at rest forever with the Sachtler ACE (preferably the ground spreader version). For another 150 bucks more, you get the [i]definite[/i] solution. That is, if you really plan to make fluent pans. If you just need a stand, get some 70$ junk, enough for the lightweight GH2.

[jgharding]

I have the 501HDV, it's great. It's a bit overkill, the 701 will do it.

The legs make more difference for stability than head as these cameras are so light. Get some thick three stage legs with a spreader and you'll find your 701 much more steady than if you go for some single telescopic stick legs.

For instance this 501 kit: [url="http://www.jessops.com/online.store/categories/Accessories/Tripods%20and%20Supports/Tripod%20Accessories/products/Manfrotto/755XBK%20Video%20Tipod%20Kit-77796/Show.html?cm_mmc=GoogleBase-_-TripodAccessories-_-all-_-all&ovc="]http://www.jessops.com/online.store/categories/Accessories/Tripods%20and%20Supports/Tripod%20Accessories/products/Manfrotto/755XBK%20Video%20Tipod%20Kit-77796/Show.html?cm_mmc=GoogleBase-_-TripodAccessories-_-all-_-all&ovc=[/url]

Is nowhere near s sturdy as this: [url="http://www.manfrotto.co.uk/product/363167/VGI501HDV,525PKIT/_/Manfrotto+UK+-+Video+kit+with+501HDV+Head,+525MVB+Tripod,+520BALL+and+bag?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=googleshopping&os=googleshopping&m=2747&c=2&o=googleshopping"]http://www.manfrotto.co.uk/product/363167/VGI501HDV,525PKIT/_/Manfrotto+UK+-+Video+kit+with+501HDV+Head,+525MVB+Tripod,+520BALL+and+bag?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=googleshopping&os=googleshopping&m=2747&c=2&o=googleshopping[/url]

Having used both, simply because the legs on the latter root it into place and are great for high-friction pans, even though the head is the same.

[jgharding]

Yeah the ACE is brilliant. The Sachtler DSLR is amazing too. I think they're both better than my Manfrotto kit!

[craigbuckley]

I re evaluated my budget and I cant really go over 150...

Should I just buy some crap one to get me by until I can afford one of those nice ones?

Or would something like this not be bad?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Professional-Heavy-Duty-FT9901-75mm-Video-Camera-Tripod-with-Fluid-Drag-Pan-Head-/120996664371?pt=US_Tripods&hash=item1c2bf69433

[plochmann]

No!!! Please buy a descent tripod. Oh, I bought a cheap one before and it blew over in a breeze, smashed my lens. Get something that is really solid. Not to mention a good pan, not just smooth, but one that doesn't make clicking or poping noises. It seems everybody neglects the tripod. I've gone to no-budget films with old film school bodies and we always have 5 7Ds but no tripods. I personally believe a tripod is a better investment than a camera- it will last you a lot longer.

[sanveer]

I would have recommended a Slik 700dx, but, its almost always outta stock. Its a heavy, and tall tripod, and pretty well recommended. I ordered one, online, from some terrible retailer, who didn't inform me, about delivery, even 2-3 days after the promised date. Then they, cheekily mailed me at 4 a.m., to tell me, that, its outta stock (after I placed an order, and waited for 10 days). :angry: I abused them on Facebook, but, I still wasn't satisfied with either the service or explanation (or the fact, that they didn't source a replacement, from some other dealer).

I feel, that, it isn't too wise to pick up a Tripod, for $500, if your camera, costs, well within $1000 ($699, actually). But, I am not way suggesting, that you buy some flimsy tripod, which is unstable, and weighs too little, and also cannot hold much weight.

Ideally, you need something that will support the GH2 with the 14-140 lens (equivalent, in weight, since its among the heavier lenses), and a few hundred grams more. Picking up a tripod which can take the load of a fully loaded Alexa or RED won't be useful. And, I am guessing, you need a little panning, for video, as well.

Try this:

[url="http://www.amazon.com/slik-pro-700dx-professional-tripod-with-panh/dp/B0002EXF38?SubscriptionId=1E628819KWK3ACMYXF82&tag=cameras0c91-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B0002EXF38"]http://www.amazon.co...ASIN=B0002EXF38[/url]

or

[url="http://www.amazon.com/Vanguard-Alta-263AP-3-Section-Magnesium/dp/B001HBIYWM/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_0_1"]http://www.amazon.co...sxp_grid_pt_0_1[/url]


(I don't own Either, so, just do a little research, regarding panning for video, and quality).

I noticed ur link/ url. DON'T buy an unbranded Tripod. The chances of it being good, are far lesser. Why take the risk. Especially, if branded and unbranded (in the link you mentioned), would come within a $20-30 difference, or less.

There are many options in Benro, Manfrotto, Slik, etc. You'll just have to do some intensive online research. ;)

[craigbuckley]

wow awesome. Thank you for the response. Great all around..

I am going to do some research... There is a benro in a pawn shop next door for 80 bucks, not sure what model or style but its benro. Is benro a good make? and I will have to find out the model. I think I am going to stick with your advice and not spend too much on a tripod, until I get going more..

I could afford the 2 you suggested, but does it need to have a "fluid head?"

And Can anyone suggest what would be better,

the slik pro, the vanguard, or the benro (sorry again for not knowing the model, I will find out.)

Or is it worth it to spend the extra 100 for the manfrotto 701hd fluid head with the manfrotto 055DX basic tripod legs.?

[kirk]

Velbon make some amazingly good "fluid head" tripods for the very low price. Not as sturdy as more expensive tripods of course, but the pans and tilts on my former Velbon were as smooth as on my present Cartoni.

[galenb]

Well, I happen to disagree. Craig, you are just starting out, you don't need to buy a $500 tripod. The one you picked out on ebay looks fine for what you are trying to do. I've always preferred the aluminum tube, crutch legs over the telescoping legs design. Most of the tripods I've used in studios have been this type. But whatever, thats a matter of taste I think. There are a bunch of similar ones on Amazon for about $120-150. Just look up Fluid head video tripod.

http://www.amazon.com/Ravelli-AVTP-Professional-Camera-Tripod/dp/B00139W0XM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1349936949&sr=8-2&keywords=fluid+head+tripod+for+video

http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Heavy-Video-Camcorder-Tripod/dp/B003UOMWOK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1349936983&sr=8-3&keywords=fluid+head+tripod+for+video

My personal pick:

http://www.amazon.com/Fancierstudio-Professional-Camera-Tripod-FC-270/dp/B004XMW4SW/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1349937009&sr=8-7&keywords=fluid+head+tripod+for+video

By the way, if you are concerned about your tripod blowing over, try using a sandbag. Sheesh guys.

[kirk]

I agree on the usability of no-brand stuff ! There's a LOT of snobbery about what is needed to do a bit of filming. The no-brand guys make the tripods for the brands too. The GH2 is a very light camera (unless you rig it to hell with follow focus, mattebox, monitor, batteries, lights you name it), so as long as the head works smoothly you'll be fine. I had to get a stiffer set of legs to support my slider... the Velbon couldn't cope. But I loved the light weight of it...

I hang my camera rucsack on a hook under the tripod... no blowing over...

[Tim]

Which is better: a ground spreader or mid level spreader?

[kirk]

Mid if you work outdoors... ground is terrible in the terrain.

[jgharding]

I think Galenb has got it with his personal pick there, looks great for the money.

+1 for flimsy tripods (almost) smashing expensive gear. If I have a lens that's cost me 800 pounds to replace, I'm not mounting that on a flimsy tripod!

If you wanna turn that one into a branded tripod, put a Manfrotto sticker on it ;)

I bet the same factory make tripods for plenty of other companies.

[craigbuckley]

thank you so much for you help guys. I'm going to keep researching and pick one out today,

this first one posted,

Does it not have a fluid head?

http://www.amazon.com/700DX-Professional-Tripod-Panhead-615-315/dp/B0002EXF38/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_topv

Because it has such good reviews compared to the other ones, but it doesnt say fluid head.. Should I stick with the other ones you posted with the fluid head?

[kirk]

Yep... a fluid head is needed if you pan or tilt... the Slik has a three way head for photography.

[craigbuckley]

ok I definitely will be panning a lot. Does anyone have any personal use or recomendation of a tripod (100-200 range) that has fluid head?

GalenB's suggestions were awesome, its just weird that some of the reviews on amazon say those tripods are terrible, and some say they are awesome.

[galenb]

The Fancierstudio is cheaper than the Silk and more stable at full hight. Also, I know it sounds weird but, the longer handle is actually quite important for doing smooth pans and tilts. It give you more leverage. The shorter handle on the Silk is more prone to jerky movement. Another nice thing about the Fancier is that the quick release plate is a larger sliding type as opposed to a clip in one. This is just easer for use with larger video cameras. The legs also have pins as well as soft rubber feel so you can stick it into the ground when you need to. But really, the Fancier is a video tripod and the Silk is for photography. The advantage that the Silk has is that it's smaller and lighter weight but still pretty stable.

[galenb]

[quote name='kirk' timestamp='1349939840' post='19592']
I agree on the usability of no-brand stuff ! There's a LOT of snobbery about what is needed to do a bit of filming. The no-brand guys make the tripods for the brands too.
[/quote]

Exactly! Good point! A lot of the so called superior name brand equipment is made in China and then re-branded in other countries. They Sometime even license Chinese goods for sale in their own country and no one is even the wiser. What's even sillier is that some of the brands that we think are of superior quality are actually outsourcing to china. Eventually we are going to have to come to terms with the fact that not everything that comes from China is poorly made. Yes, there are a lot of cheap knock-off goods that are just made to look like they are passable but the same can be true for equipment made anywhere. I live in the US and I would not say that everything made here is of higher quality.

[Axel]

][quote name='kirk' timestamp='1349939840' post='19592']
I agree on the usability of no-brand stuff ! There's a LOT of snobbery about what is needed to do a bit of filming.
[/quote]

I say! This is true for a lot of things. There are a few things, that, while still being affordable, are of another class. Any microphone will do, but a real leap in quality you will have only if you go over a certain price limit. If you had this thing once, you think of all cheaper options simply as junk, not worth their small price, not worth to carry around. Headphones that don't playback every frequency you recorded - what are they good for? Why should you bother to take them on? Lenses that have a nice first look, but always degrade your image unnecessarily, one- or two hundred bucks cheaper than a good lens? Finally: A tripod that weighs as much as the rest of your equipment plus something and that you need ten tries with to get that Andrew Reid pan - instead of one because the head of the more expensive is way better?

[quote name='galenb' timestamp='1349975876' post='19624']
Exactly! Good point! A lot of the so called superior name brand equipment is made in China and then re-branded in other countries. They Sometime even license Chinese goods for sale in their own country and no one is even the wiser. What's even sillier is that some of the brands that we think are of superior quality are actually outsourcing to china. Eventually we are going to have to come to terms with the fact that not everything that comes from China is poorly made. Yes, there are a lot of cheap knock-off goods that are just made to look like they are passable but the same can be true for equipment made anywhere. I live in the US and I would not say that everything made here is of higher quality.
[/quote]

There you mix something up. Things are more complicated. A lot of products are made in China but invented elsewhere. Take an Apple computer. It's american. Chinese people just can't. Take precision clockworks, cars, tripods. Manfrotto has a reputation, their tripods are high tech products. Sachtler would be out of business quickly if they delivered something that's not up to the highest expectations. Every part, it may be plastic, carbon fibre or magnesium, is thoroughly tested. You can dissasemble it, make a equal-looking copy, but it will never work the same.

You [i]can[/i] buy a chinese LED light without much risk, because the design is quite simple and it costs 50 bucks. Maybe the 200 $ Litepanel version has a slightly smoother dimmer wheel. There were comparisons, and afterwards it seemed possible that the [i]brands[/i] (also 'Made in China') were the copies, but you can't generalize this.

On the other hand: A [i]very[/i] cheap tripod can do. You have to train yourself to overcome the limitations. You can put some pressure on the head while panning and, with great concentration and enough time for redos, you will get what you want. You don't need redheads (or fresnels, Kinoflos, HMIs) to light, you can also take the cheap halogen floodlights from the department store. And so forth.

Pans, when do you need them? Imho pans are like zooms, the rarer you use them, the better the film. The narrational functions are limited. They are and should be ends in themselves. They tell (in the language of film): Look, brace yourself for a grand panorama I am about to show you. And a fast follow of the main character, a passing train, all this can be done almost as well with a cheap head. It's not the question if a tripod for 150 $ is better than one for 70 $, it's just that you won't get a decent tripod for under, say, 500 $.




[color=#222222][font=Helvetica Neue', Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][size=4][background=rgb(255, 255, 255)][quote name='craigbuckley' timestamp='1349965956' post='19614']GalenB's suggestions were awesome, its just weird that some of the reviews on amazon say those tripods are terrible, and some say they are awesome.
[/quote]

Same story. If you can afford only a 300 $ camcorder, you are surprised at how good the video is. Not if you tried a GH2 before, let alone a Sony FS-700 or higher.[/background][/size][/font][/color]