Best lights for beginner?

[craigbuckley]

Beginner film maker here with my new Gh2. I am ordering a tripod and I got some good lenses, so I am almost ready to start shooting some short films. I know I will need some lights, I was wondering if someone could suggest some good beginner lights.. I'm not even sure what the range of price for lights are, but I am in the $100-200 range, unless thats not reasonable for decent lights. I am open to all suggestions.

[aaronmc]

I was just about to join today to ask a similar question. You beat me to it by three hours.

I'm looking at a variety of lights for my first video set-up. Nothing huge, two to three hot lights with softboxes (maybe a boom light). Settings will generally be indoor rooms with some flags and reflectors set up. What are my considerations in the sub-$1,000 price range?

Namely, what are the differences between the various types of lights? Fluorescent is very attractive to me since it runs so cool. What wattage (or wattage equivalent) should I target for each light? My lenses will be the Panny 25mm f/1.4, 20mm f/1.7, and 14-45mm. The 14-45mm is kinda' slow, so I assume that I'm going to need some pretty beefy wattages.

My camera will be a hacked GH2. What are my considerations for light temperature? I've read that the GH2 is noisiest in the red channel. How does that affect my light choices?

[jgharding]

I wrote a whole article on lighting for beginners here: [url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar11/articles/light-fantastic.htm"]http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar11/articles/light-fantastic.htm[/url]

You may find it helps!

My most used tools and reflectors (I have three large ones at least with me all the time) and two of those cheap chinese 600LED panels. They're amazing for the money! Fluoros look lovely but they're easy to break and a bit cumbersome for quick jobs.

[jgharding]

When you're talking about colour temperature, not only is it noisiest in the red channel, but it has a 4:2:0 codec. The zero there is red, so you can see that anything with a large amount of red has less data given over to it than light and shadow detail (4) or blue detail (2). Colour balance cooler in camera for better results with 4:2:0 cameras, I find.

[jgharding]

Here's my favorite lights. They're cheap, so sue me ;)

[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/600LEDS-CN600-SA-Studio-Photography-Lighting-BATTERY-MOUNT-DIMMER-LED-Light-/260945997751?pt=UK_Photography_StudioEquipment_RL&hash=item3cc197efb7"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/600LEDS-CN600-SA-Studio-Photography-Lighting-BATTERY-MOUNT-DIMMER-LED-Light-/260945997751?pt=UK_Photography_StudioEquipment_RL&hash=item3cc197efb7[/url]

[sanveer]

[quote name='jgharding' timestamp='1349948865' post='19595']
I wrote a whole article on lighting for beginners here: [url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar11/articles/light-fantastic.htm"]http://www.soundonso...t-fantastic.htm[/url]

You may find it helps!

My most used tools and reflectors (I have three large ones at least with me all the time) and two of those cheap chinese 600LED panels. They're amazing for the money! Fluoros look lovely but they're easy to break and a bit cumbersome for quick jobs.
[/quote]

Great Article. Very well written, no gobbledygook and very informative.


[quote name='jgharding' timestamp='1349949220' post='19599']
Here's my favorite lights. They're cheap, so sue me ;)

[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/600LEDS-CN600-SA-Studio-Photography-Lighting-BATTERY-MOUNT-DIMMER-LED-Light-/260945997751?pt=UK_Photography_StudioEquipment_RL&hash=item3cc197efb7"]http://www.ebay.co.u...=item3cc197efb7[/url]
[/quote]

Its always a great Idea to get cheap products, if they are good (and, if branded stuff, is priced prohibitively). I got emergency light kindda Chinese made LEDs for less than $4 each. They last about 5-10 hrs, on a single charge, and are great for scenes inside cars, or small spaces (they don't project light, too far, i.e., their throw is pretty limited). I also, got 5-in-1 reflectors for bout $20 or $30 each. They are 42" and are pretty good.

I do have regular lights, too, but, setting them up is a huge task, and, they aren't that portable. I wish professional LEDs were cheaper, and more effective. hmmmm ...

[craigbuckley]

do you think those 600LEDS will work good with video? And would just that one light be enough to start shooting, or do you need multiple lights? Thanks again for the post, I'm going to read your article and pass it on!

[andy lee]

get a set of 3 Red heads and some coloured gels
all off ebay that will get you started

[jgharding]

I used 600LED lights on this zero budget piece:

[url="https://vimeo.com/48174944"]https://vimeo.com/48174944[/url]

Plus some workman's LED lights in order to get the flicker in the performance room. In most situations such a flicker would be annoying, but promos tend to be about aesthetic, so it's a fun trick to desync the lights and shutter spped.

The 600LED lights don't flicker though, they're great.

I have a couple more vids in post. One of those has only 600 LED panel and reflectors. It was four-figure budget, we just spent it all on more important stuff ;)

[Axel]

There are imo two completely different concepts of lighting, and to understand why can get you faster to where you like to be with light.

1. Lighting every take to the greatest effect, bending logic as far as needed, excluding natural light from the set or at least rigorously changing it. You study the characteristics of certain types of lights and choose the ones that fit.

2. Looking at natural light on a set. Since someone scouted the set as suitable for the scene, it very probably has something special. It will already capture and reflect the natural or existing light in a nice way. You think hard about what it is that makes the light work and then you merely amplify this mood, usually seldom by much more than reflectors or diffused floodlamps.

Once these two methods were called expressionistic and impressionistic, but if you take them as a yin & yang thing and not as contradictions, you have found the key to see the world through epiphanies of light.

Consider every lightsource as usable - for certain purposes. If there ever was a craft to which 'WYSIWYG' could be attached, it is lighting. But you need to learn how to see.

[jgharding]

That's a great way to split it. I find I use 2 most often: working [i]with[/i] what's there already. Once you start fighting against you surroundings you get in trouble or expense pretty quickly I find!

[craigbuckley]

Ok Ok great.

I just found 2 construction lights (those orange ones) in my basement. They seem to work alright, do you think this could be usable or are these lights crap for film? Maybe I should get some reflectors or something...

[Axel]

[quote name='craigbuckley' timestamp='1349981418' post='19629']
Ok Ok great.

I just found 2 construction lights (those orange ones) in my basement. They seem to work alright, do you think this could be usable or are these lights crap for film? Maybe I should get some reflectors or something...
[/quote]

DIY a couple of wooden frames. Buy some heavy duty clamps to attach them to back of chairs and the like (the more easy solution were [url="http://www.ebay.com/itm/Manfrotto-super-clamp-without-stud-/320992342888?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4abca27368"]Manfrotto super clamps[/url] with studs on the cheapest [url="http://www.ebay.com/itm/656-200cm-Light-Stand-Tripod-for-Photo-Video-Lighting-SCP-0059-/221114768369?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337b779bf1"]light stands[/url]). Over the frames, you can tape [url="http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lee-Filters-LF-LF250-1-2-White-Diffusion-Lee-Filter-Color-Gels-21-x-24-/330755568405?pt=US_Stage_Lighting_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d02917315"]diffusor gel[/url]s (heat no problem), black tissue, rescue blankets, whatever. Styrofoams to bounce, they are neutral white (a white wall also works).

There is an old concept of how to light a set. It's called [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-point_lighting"]3-point-lighting[/url] (you don't need to read that). Forget about the three points. But keep in mind, that there are indeed three things to stay aware of:
a) The key light. Think of it as the spot that lights your main motif.
B) The fill light. Reducing the shadows caused by the key light and/or lighting the surrounding set.
c) The back light. Highlights the outlines, avoids the surface to look flat. Not always plausible, but always interesting.

The backlight can of cause also be the fill light. Or the key light. Neither of the light categories needs to be a [i]lamp[/i]. A person standing at a window will have a bright side and a dark side. You could position him/her, so that the profile is highlighted and the face would be a silhouette. You could bend a [url="http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pro-43-Light-Mulit-Collapsible-disc-5-in-1-Reflector-110cm-/280994241982?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item416c8fddbe"]reflector[/url] to focus the light from the window back to the face. The face will still be darker, but look natural, and the brighter outline will make the head stand out. With one natural light source, you have key light, fill light and backlight. You got the picture. It's like painting. You have to manipulate the scene through the viewfinder until you get what you want.

With your construction lamps, you need to avoid daylight, because the color temperature doesn't match. Your options are:
● Exclude daylight. Use the tungsten WB (or better yet: Make a manual WB). A lamp behind a diffusor is like a moveable window.
● buy filter gels for the windows (conversation filter daylight to tungsten), they stay in place if you make them wet and press them on the pane with a squeegee, reusable. You can also stop down the light from outside by attaching ND gels.

Again: Use every light that suits you. Experiment. Perhaps some day you buy more lights. Spots for example. Or borrow them. Some are just too expensive to buy.

[galenb]

Well ah... Yes I guess they would. You're talking about the halogen ones right? I mean, HMI's are basically very similar but purpose built for film work. I have to admit that I used those before but that was a really long time ago (on 16mm) and I didn't really know what I was doing back then. Depending on the look you are trying to get, I would probably not use these naked. Meaning, either bounce them off a white card or put them through a defuser of some sort. But, It really depends on what you are trying to achieve. What kind of look are you going for? Do you have any examples of lighting in movies that you like? Like Axle pointed out above, do you want a natural look or are you wanting a more polished/produced studio look? Because these two categories are going to require fairly different lighting setups.

[craigbuckley]

Thank you so much Axel, awesome. I read that 3 point lighting and that helped a lot. I will definitely need more than 1 light source, maybe that 600LED will accompany the orange work lights in my basement.

[quote name='galenb' timestamp='1349986808' post='19636']
But, It really depends on what you are trying to achieve. What kind of look are you going for? Do you have any examples of lighting in movies that you like? Like Axle pointed out above, do you want a natural look or are you wanting a more polished/produced studio look? Because these two categories are going to require fairly different lighting setups.
[/quote]

GalenB, I really like Wes Anderson's films. I watched the royal tennenbaums the other night,

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pyBB7y8fDU[/media]

That scene rocked my world. Moved me so much. And I know its a vague scene to get all of my lighting inspiration from, but something around those lines. Is there a direction I should head to have lighting like Wes Anderson? I know its probably very different in his other movies... I believe the ones in my basement are hallogen, I will look into getting some type of filters for them. Any recommendations?

[galenb]

I must be board today... are you ready for this? :-)

This is all working from memory because I haven't seen that one in a couple of years other then some scenes I just watched off youtube: Well I noticed that most of his films use a variety of Studio and natural lighting techniques. He has a tendency to mock or go beyond reality in some of this scenes to achieve a sense of almost theatrical disconnection... Al least, that's how I interpret it. :-)

He's all over the place in his lighting theory. Sometimes the shots look very defused (You can get this effect by putting a large defuser of some sort in front of your light (although as axel pointed out, be careful it's made of some kind of non-flamible material, if there is a lighting a grip shop in your town, they will sell it in sheets) or bouncing a light off of white surfaces. Other times he's intentionally making the lighting look fake in order to achieve a subtle yet surreal look. As far as I can tell, some of those shots use an amber gel on a large light coming from the window the the left (or at least in the direction of the window) and then a cooler, softer fill light coming from the opposite side on the right. If you look at the opening scene, where the three kids are sitting with Royal and he's telling them that he's leaving, you can see that the kids are lit as if the sun is right outside the window and yet, the buildings behind them have a soft almost blue light from an overcast sky outside. I get the impression that it's supposed to look fake but that's part of this look.

There's also other shots where the lighting looks like it's just huge defused overhead work lights with smaller "specials" around the room to highlight things in the scene. For that look, place the lights high up and again, use a large defuser in front of them. It's actually pretty simple. Although you might need to fill in the darkness that pools around your subject's feet with yet another soft defused light. Sometimes two set at either side of the set almost perpendicular to the camera. Diffusers will help eliminate the harsh shadows you get without them.

And even more shots too that seem to use only daylight from a window and maybe an opposing fill to equalize the exposure of the room. Again, pretty simple stuff.

Just watch his movies (of better yet, movies from the 70's) and try and figure out where this lighting is coming from. Expect that you are going to be doing the wrong thing at fist but keep at it.

A last bit of advice: 3 point lighting is a nice little trick to get things to look like a hollywood movie but it isn't right for everything and never treat it like it was some kind of rule that you always need to follow. This may seem obvious but I can't tell you how many people I've run into who actually keep that as an unbreakable rule. I've often heard directors or DP's say, "You always need to have some kind of rim light" even when the scene looked fine without it. I would especially avoid it if you are trying to achieve a natural look. 3 point lighting rarely happens in real life. However, that being said, it is a good trick to get your subject to pop out of the scene... if that's your intent. I prefer subtlety.

[craigbuckley]

Thanks so much for the breakdown. I'm going to take that all in.

Could you suggest the "right" kind of diffuser or defuser for the orange work" lights? I think I would invest in a diffuser or a gel to use, thanks to your adivce.

Also, I'm not really getting a response on another thread (my apology for starting another one), but I found out that there is no headphone jack on the gh2... What is up with this? Is there a way around it? Even on my old cameras you can plug a headphone in to listen to the audio, (if the volume needs to be lowered or raised), so what is the way around this? Thanks again.

[galenb]

LOL yeah that was a typo. I definitely meant to write "Diffuser" Sorry about that.

I can't remember exactly so hopefully someone else can chime in here: I think the amber gels are called CTO and can be bought in rolls or large sheets. The come in varying degrees from 'full CTO' which is really Amber/Orange and come in something like 1/2 and 1/4 and so on shades. I think blue gels are the same way too but are called 'CTB'. I don't remember the range that diffuser gets come in but I seem to remember 172 - 250 being the standard range we used to use a lot. You'll see a number associated with them and that's the amount of diffusion they apply.

I would just recommend getting a daylight to tungsten conversion kit. Usually this includes a bunch of amber gels and some diffusers and maybe a sheet of ND. I think they were pretty cheep if I remember right.

Also, please look on youtube for lighting tutorials and especially about using gels. There's tons of free information out there.

[galenb]

Here's just a one of the multiple sources for learning about lighting: [url="http://www.lowel.com/edu/"]http://www.lowel.com/edu/[/url]

[Tim]

[quote name='jgharding' timestamp='1349961663' post='19611']
I used 600LED lights on this zero budget piece:

[url="https://vimeo.com/48174944"]https://vimeo.com/48174944[/url]

Plus some workman's LED lights in order to get the flicker in the performance room. In most situations such a flicker would be annoying, but promos tend to be about aesthetic, so it's a fun trick to desync the lights and shutter spped.

The 600LED lights don't flicker though, they're great.

I have a couple more vids in post. One of those has only 600 LED panel and reflectors. It was four-figure budget, we just spent it all on more important stuff ;)
[/quote]

Those lights seem great for the price, do they have a greenish tint that some chinese LED lights have?